DUST Search - Game Modes that tell a story

S Park Finner wrote:

Godin Thekiller wrote:

Warbarges makes all of that stuff in orbit, so most of that is pretty much pointless........

EDIT: Is this for NPC corps, or for player corps? If for NPC corps, no (factions wouldn't allow straight up wars to be waged on the planets, I still to this day don't get why we do now).

EDIT 2: Could there be things done by either team to lead to another gamemode, or is it hard locked to one gamemode?

Thanks for taking the time to check this out.

Regarding equipment assembly on the planet:

The fiction is the MCC has to stay in high orbit to keep out of the reach of the Orbital Cannons so the Equipment Assembly Units are the mechanism that allows the parts for things to be dropped to the troops.

The game mechanic is that resources for battles can be controlled by how much the players want to invest in attack or defence and these units are the vehicle by which that is realized: the more of them / kind of them / ... you pay for the more support you provide your troops.

If the attackers are willing to bring the MCC into low orbit the EAUs are not necessary but the attackers are put at risk of getting thrown off the planet early.

Regarding factions:

I'm not sure I agree. Certainly, deep in a faction's territory the likelihood of an attacker having the logistics to stage an attack would be low -- but at the edges and in contested territory I don't understand why it could not happen.

Regarding Game Modes:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by game mode.

There are three basic game modes here: beachhead, single target capture the flag (advance/counter-attack with single targets and final push) and multiple-target capture the flag (reconnaissance/counter-attack with multiple targets).

The variation are with time outs, equipment progression, transportation requirements (managed by spacing of objectives) and resource constraints.

If the attackers just hid out in the reconnaissance battle future battles would be all multiple target capture the flag. If they identified all the OCs then future battles would be all single target capture the flag. So for any particular territory the attackers would have some control over the kinds of battles to be fought.

For territory where there was no player-owner the game system would assign resources, decide if the MCC should be brought in, and manage battle difficulty. It would allow for match-making and be part of the information available to players/corporations before they signed up for the battle.

Additional Thoughts

You got me thinking that the history of the fights over a territory could be a matter of record so players signing up for a contract could see how things played out in the past. It would give a sense of real stability if (for example) who fought over the territories, who owned them and how things played out could be part of choosing where to fight next. A running history of the world.

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S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 375	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:05:00 - [1] - Quote This is a companion post to " Player Involvement, EVE and Legion" showing how game modes can compliment involvement with both EVE and Legion. The story: When corporations want to take planetary territory by force they hire mercenaries to do it. Mercenaries first have to establish a beachhead by dropping from a Mobile Command Center (MCC) in high orbit beyond the range of ground based Orbital Cannons (OCs). Depending on funding, they can support their beachhead with Clone Reanimation Units (CRUs), Equipment Assembly Units (EAUs), Supply Depots (SDs), and Weapon Batteries (WBs). Once a beachhead is established they have to reconnoiter the territory to find the locations of defending Orbital Cannons. There can be many facilities in the territory and any of them can contain OCs. Attackers could waste time and resources attacking facilities of no military value so discovering OCs is important. The MCC can not be brought into low orbit (or runs the danger of being destroyed) if the OCs are not neutralized. Once the OC's have been taken a final push to the territory Central Facility takes place with MCC support. The Defender MCC is in low orbit over the territory Central Facility. EAUs can assemble ground vehicles, aircraft and drones depending on their configuration. The MCC can not deploy Remote Deployment Vehicles (RDVs) until it is in low orbit. To deploy a CRU, EAU, SD or WB the ground troops set up a beacon. The beacon has a countdown timer which is the time it takes for the MCC to lock on. Once locked on the equipment is dropped to the location of the beacon. (Don't stand under it). Game Modes Beachhead: Medium duration battle favoring the attackers. The attackers are dropped into a barren area with light defenses. Attackers must clear an area and set up equipment. Win conditions: - - - Attackers set up required structures before the timer runs out or they are cloned out. - - - Defenders keep it from happening. Insertion: - - - Attackers Drop from orbit - - - Defenders spawn at an "outpost" nearby. Gear limitations: No vehicles for the attackers until an EAU is set up. Special conditions: Attackers get to pick the drop point, defenders don't know where it is but can see the clones dropping in if they are looking in the right direction (MCC is in high orbit). In pickup games the drop location is chosen by the game system. Reconnaissance : Medium duration battle balancing highly mobile attackers against defenders who either try to cover them or concentrate on counter attacking their beachhead. Starting at a beachhead, attackers must re-deploy to facilities in the territory and determine if they contain null cannons. The battle is timed. Win conditions: - - - Attackers discover all Orbital Cannons at facilities. - - - Defenders hold off the attackers until the timeout, destroy all attacker clones, or destroy all the CRU's at the beachhead. Insertion: - - -Attackers at the beachhead CRU - - - Defenders at defender facilities. Gear limitations: None Special conditions: Each cannon discovered allows the attackers to target a single orbital cannon facility in later battles (sets up Domination-type battles for them in the future) Advance / Counterattack: Medium to long battles where opposing forces fight over facilities. (Domination mode if OC's have been identified, Skirmish mode for facilities where OC's have not be identified) If the defenders recapture (or hold) all the OC facilities a battle for the beachhead will be qued by the system. Win conditions: - - - Attackers overrun the facility (they reach a target control point and hack it) and hold it for a period of time or clone the defenders out. - - - Defenders deplete the attacker clones or hold the facility for a timeout period. Insertion: - - - Attackers at the nearest CRU / held facility - - - Defenders at the defender facilities. Gear limitations: None. Special conditions: Once all the OC's are captured the Central Facility is open to attack. Final Push: Attack the Central Facility. Medium - long battle where both MCCs are available and all ground support units in place are available. Defender MCC is in danger from peripheral OC's. Attacker MCC is in danger from central facility OC's. Win condition: - - - Attacking team overruns the facility (hacks it's control point) / depletes defender clones / MCC destroyed - - - Defender: deplete attacker clones / MCC destroyed Gear Limitations: None Special Conditions: If the attacker wins they (or the people who hired them) take control of the territory. If the defender wins the battle goes back to the Advance / Counter Attack modes. Territory battle flow: For territory where there is no beachhead, the game system queues beachhead battles For territory with a beachhead but where no reconnaissance battle has been taken place, the game system queues a reconnaissance battle. For territory where a reconnaissance battle has been fought but no Advance/Counterattack battles have been fought the system queues either single OC battles (like existing Domination) or multiple facility battles (like existing Skirmish) except if territory facilities are widely spread out attackers may have to transport themselves to remote facilities from facilities they hold. If attackers have fought Advance/Counterattack battles but do not hold any OC's the system schedules a beachhead battle. If attackers hold all the OC's, the system schedules a final push battle. If attackers win the Final Push the territory changes hands. If they loose, the battle mode reverts to Advance / Counter Attack It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2340	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:13:00 - [2] - Quote Warbarges makes all of that stuff in orbit, so most of that is pretty much pointless........ EDIT: Is this for NPC corps, or for player corps? If for NPC corps, no (factions wouldn't allow straight up wars to be waged on the planets, I still to this day don't get why we do now). EDIT 2: Could there be things done by either team to lead to another gamemode, or is it hard locked to one gamemode? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 376	Posted - 2014.05.19 22:07:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Warbarges makes all of that stuff in orbit, so most of that is pretty much pointless........ EDIT: Is this for NPC corps, or for player corps? If for NPC corps, no (factions wouldn't allow straight up wars to be waged on the planets, I still to this day don't get why we do now). EDIT 2: Could there be things done by either team to lead to another gamemode, or is it hard locked to one gamemode? Thanks for taking the time to check this out. Regarding equipment assembly on the planet: The fiction is the MCC has to stay in high orbit to keep out of the reach of the Orbital Cannons so the Equipment Assembly Units are the mechanism that allows the parts for things to be dropped to the troops. The game mechanic is that resources for battles can be controlled by how much the players want to invest in attack or defence and these units are the vehicle by which that is realized: the more of them / kind of them / ... you pay for the more support you provide your troops. If the attackers are willing to bring the MCC into low orbit the EAUs are not necessary but the attackers are put at risk of getting thrown off the planet early. Regarding factions: I'm not sure I agree. Certainly, deep in a faction's territory the likelihood of an attacker having the logistics to stage an attack would be low -- but at the edges and in contested territory I don't understand why it could not happen. Regarding Game Modes: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by game mode. There are three basic game modes here: beachhead, single target capture the flag (advance/counter-attack with single targets and final push) and multiple-target capture the flag (reconnaissance/counter-attack with multiple targets). The variation are with time outs, equipment progression, transportation requirements (managed by spacing of objectives) and resource constraints. If the attackers just hid out in the reconnaissance battle future battles would be all multiple target capture the flag. If they identified all the OCs then future battles would be all single target capture the flag. So for any particular territory the attackers would have some control over the kinds of battles to be fought. For territory where there was no player-owner the game system would assign resources, decide if the MCC should be brought in, and manage battle difficulty. It would allow for match-making and be part of the information available to players/corporations before they signed up for the battle. Additional Thoughts You got me thinking that the history of the fights over a territory could be a matter of record so players signing up for a contract could see how things played out in the past. It would give a sense of real stability if (for example) who fought over the territories, who owned them and how things played out could be part of choosing where to fight next. A running history of the world. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2340	Posted - 2014.05.19 22:38:00 - [4] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Warbarges makes all of that stuff in orbit, so most of that is pretty much pointless........ EDIT: Is this for NPC corps, or for player corps? If for NPC corps, no (factions wouldn't allow straight up wars to be waged on the planets, I still to this day don't get why we do now). EDIT 2: Could there be things done by either team to lead to another gamemode, or is it hard locked to one gamemode? Thanks for taking the time to check this out. Regarding equipment assembly on the planet: The fiction is the MCC has to stay in high orbit to keep out of the reach of the Orbital Cannons so the Equipment Assembly Units are the mechanism that allows the parts for things to be dropped to the troops. The game mechanic is that resources for battles can be controlled by how much the players want to invest in attack or defence and these units are the vehicle by which that is realized: the more of them / kind of them / ... you pay for the more support you provide your troops. If the attackers are willing to bring the MCC into low orbit the EAUs are not necessary but the attackers are put at risk of getting thrown off the planet early. Regarding factions: I'm not sure I agree. Certainly, deep in a faction's territory the likelihood of an attacker having the logistics to stage an attack would be low -- but at the edges and in contested territory I don't understand why it could not happen. Regarding Game Modes: I'm not sure I understand what you mean by game mode. There are three basic game modes here: beachhead, single target capture the flag (advance/counter-attack with single targets and final push) and multiple-target capture the flag (reconnaissance/counter-attack with multiple targets). The variation are with time outs, equipment progression, transportation requirements (managed by spacing of objectives) and resource constraints. If the attackers just hid out in the reconnaissance battle future battles would be all multiple target capture the flag. If they identified all the OCs then future battles would be all single target capture the flag. So for any particular territory the attackers would have some control over the kinds of battles to be fought. For territory where there was no player-owner the game system would assign resources, decide if the MCC should be brought in, and manage battle difficulty. It would allow for match-making and be part of the information available to players/corporations before they signed up for the battle. Additional Thoughts You got me thinking that the history of the fights over a territory could be a matter of record so players signing up for a contract could see how things played out in the past. It would give a sense of real stability if (for example) who fought over the territories, who owned them and how things played out could be part of choosing where to fight next. A running history of the world. things are not made in the MCC, they are made in the Warbarge, and flown in via RDV ( which means rapid deployment vehicle btw, it's only a T II version that is a drone). That is a already agreed on mechanic, and CCP was planning on putting it in (before everything went to **** with dust. Who knows, it might still happen for PC 2.0 in Dust). Also, the Warbarges already sits high in orbit, so that really doesn't matter. Hisec is deep in their territory. Those edges and contested space is in Losec, which in that case they would get stomped by di corps. Again, makes no sense. I take that as a no? In that case, it's just tiered gamemodes, which is a pretty lame way of doing PC and FW. We need to go away from the lobby shooter. This isn't COD or BF. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 376	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:21:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ... I take that as a no? In that case, it's just tiered gamemodes, which is a pretty lame way of doing PC and FW. We need to go away from the lobby shooter. This isn't COD or BF. Thanks for the help with the lore. I don't think I can make worthwhile adjustments until I understand what you mean by game modes. What modes would work better for PC and FW and how would those modes be better? Could you give me some examples? It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2340	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:30:00 - [6] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: ... I take that as a no? In that case, it's just tiered gamemodes, which is a pretty lame way of doing PC and FW. We need to go away from the lobby shooter. This isn't COD or BF. Thanks for the help with the lore. I don't think I can make worthwhile adjustments until I understand what you mean by game modes. What modes would work better for PC and FW and how would those modes be better? Could you give me some examples? Gamemode implies 1: a lobby 2: set amount of players 3: ends very quickly (5-15 minutes) And these assets that we are fighting over is worth way more to be taken over in such a way (That's why PC is in such a mess atm). Yes, there needs to be clear ways of taking over a district, however, doing it like that would make it to where it would jsut be a slightly longer lasting current PC. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 157	Posted - 2014.05.20 13:22:00 - [7] - Quote I too wish that Legion moved away from the lobby mechnics and found a way into a more free, roaming mode in the likeness of EVE. Lobby matches seems so detached from the real thing.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2355	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:25:00 - [8] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: I too wish that Legion moved away from the lobby mechnics and found a way into a more free, roaming mode in the likeness of EVE. Lobby matches seems so detached from the real thing. I actually agree with a Goon for once click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 379	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:30:00 - [9] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: I too wish that Legion moved away from the lobby mechnics and found a way into a more free, roaming mode in the likeness of EVE. Lobby matches seems so detached from the real thing. I support that as well. I'm not sure the mechanics of arranging battles for territory control has to interfere or prohibit that. And the scavenging DEVs have been talking about could be an indication of CCPs eventual direction. As an example tying this thread's discussion with that goal... Territory owners or their contractors could roam the areas that are owned any time they want. If a battle is scheduled on that territory - - - owners in the area could be automatically put in it - - - owners could trigger a battle by signing up for one (following the ideas in this and the companion thread) A "salvage" game mode could allow mercenaries to enter a battle area after the home team had a first-shot at salvage - - - Stage one - the battle winners get first-shot at salvage - - - Stage two - others can enter the area. It would be like "ambush with salvage" - - - After the salvage game territory reverts to owner free-roam. If the territory contained manufacturing facilities this would clear a path to Legion-owned manufacturing, research, exploration and other kinds of open-world game play. Certainly what actually gets built won't be like this. But I don't think the ideas are so out-of-line that they don't show how a more open world and a managed mechanism for territory turn-over could work together. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.


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