DUST Search - Why So Much Doom and Gloom?

AFK Godfather wrote:

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

FPS cross gaming between PC and console isnt a matter of having the balls to do it. It's imo, just not possible to balance. That's a fact really hard to overcome. So if a single shard MMOFPS starts launches on PC, odds to see it someday go to console ar as thin as the remaining ozone layer. That's no troll nor anger or bitterness talking. That's a simple, reasonable and very likely scenario.

As for the "'where did all the money go ?" part, that's really not the players issue..... It's been said many times that the main blame players have regarding CCP is the long period of keeping them in the dark while still selling\promoting items that may or may not have been bought by said players if they had know about legion and near future. Transparency and all that.

The fact that money earned by a game isnt necessarily spend again on developing that same game is obvious and well known. The fact that Dust probably didnt generate enough money (no actual knowledge here, just sayin) to compensate the cost of past development, maintenance and\or future development is also known by most of the community as PCU was common knowledge for every player. And some never hesitated in buying stuff as a way to support CCP regarding those probable difficulties. Which makes the previous part even more painfull.

So no point in trying to compare this situation with another. Or finding worse somewhere as that doesnt change nor excuse, nor makes it any easier for anyone

yoooo...dropping some logic on CCPs #1 fanboy? Good luck with that... you probably wasted a few minutes of your life writing it towards him, but most of us here get it, and agree.


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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15096	Posted - 2014.05.19 02:09:00 - [1] - Quote Dunno; there are black knights whom feel its alright to go around attacking players who want to continue to play the game because from their perception they been betrayed in their minds. I don't mind them being angry they have the right after all; not all of them can follow us to next gen. I do mind the ones however is that think attacking other players and developers who are reaching out is an okay move. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15098	Posted - 2014.05.19 07:49:00 - [2] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dunno; there are black knights whom feel its alright to go around attacking players who want to continue to play the game because from their perception they been betrayed in their minds. I don't mind them being angry they have the right after all; not all of them can follow us to ~~next-gen~~ PC. I do mind the ones however is that think attacking other players and developers who are reaching out is an okay move. There, fixed. Also, who Rattati is exactly ? Coz i didnt waste any time reading anything about it CCP Rattati; upper management shipped out from iceland; Dust 514 custodian now; enjoys doing things CCP Rise and CCP Fozzie style and your correction is far to premature to even consider. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15100	Posted - 2014.05.19 08:53:00 - [3] - Quote Heavenly Daughter wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dunno; there are black knights whom feel its alright to go around attacking players who want to continue to play the game because from their perception they been betrayed in their minds. I don't mind them being angry they have the right after all; not all of them can follow us to next gen. I do mind the ones however is that think attacking other players and developers who are reaching out is an okay move. lol, and then there's those who know things like a different platform of the game is being developed and even though the game was not under any NDA, the dust players were not informed at it start. Do you think they money they made in that 7 months would have been forthcoming in that time or not, I say no, and to me this was simply a way to keep the money coming in, DECEIT. SO MUCH FOR 7 YEARS, what a crock of ................ Not my position to promise anything. Promising never or will are two things I am simply not in that nature to do so. For me to say that Legion will never go to PS4 can turn out to be a flat out lie as saying legion will be going to ps4 will be just as much as of a lie. Both are lies and neither truths; safer to say things that are more encompassing and accommodating. The term next gen is most correct in this case for now all we know is only exclusive to the PC itself but the door will not remain shut. Even then the possibility of Legion getting red lit is still there so that could just flush quite a few plans down the chute. Cazderon brought up a good point in another thread as to why even Planetside 2 doesnt have the balls to cross play between their versions. Though i am sure if we could poke SOE brains a bit we can find out from them. Digital Extremes' Warframe is attempting cross play their largest issue is synchronous versions. Currently the PS4 version is about a month to a week behind. However unlike PS2 the disparity between PC available controllers and expected PS4 controllers are nearly non issue in warframe where they would pose a significant issue in any real shooter such as BF, CoD, PS2, and Legion. Also if you really want to know where your money is going by icelandic law there is that finances report floating about. Another sad truth of the industry that majority of a game's cost never goes back into the game. Take your typical EA game; 12$ of every brand new 60$ EA game goes into games that never see launch day or press day even. EA cancels quite a few games they're not happy with or feel they will not meet ROI goals, large portion goes back into the advertising, finally the last bit goes into paying the original game development investment back and securing the next cash cow being crafted. SOE for example does NOT spend the entire subscription from ps2 back into planetside 2 instead it goes to other games and entirely unrelated developments usually. I mean where does the money for everquest next comes from? Its the nature of the business to keep funded regardless. Failure to go above break even means you're stuck with a dying mmo company on the simple grounds that you have no money to fund the next game. Also if you really want a good backstab story; go read tiny co's apology for spellstorm's sudden cancellation of an event after the event was supposed to start that many people spent lots of pay to win money preparing ahead for; and all the extra new-ish things they promised to do has yet to materialize and this was some months ago. At least here we have a newly assigned developer he's highly involved with the community and the CPM to the point I have to get some real CPM work done tomorrow before he starts cracking the whip around the place. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15111	Posted - 2014.05.19 19:36:00 - [4] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Seriously IWS, this is why ppl have a go at you. You singularly fail to address the specific point raised, and then proceed to bang on about several unrelated points. It doesn't matter one iota what other companies have done or anything else. It's completely irrelevant to someone asking why they have been shafted and getting zero acknowledgement. The shaft, if I may paraphrase, before you launch into "nobody said the money you pay for DUST gets invested into DUST", is where we fronted real money for what we thought was an investment into a long-term life cycle on a platform we would own. And it's not just the money, it's the time, the effort to post in forums, to participate in the community, to give feedback and come up with new ideas. Nobody would've complained when a plan to put DUST on PS4 and an end date for DUST on PS3 was announced and some decided they weren't gonna save up for a PS4. What you've basically done is stop DUST dev altogether. The fact that you knew this was happening months and months ago, and that not only was DUST dev stopping, but new work on a new product was beginning on a completely different platform, is why some people are so upset. For goodness sake acknowledge this. You're just trolling with this sort of response. I am CPM; no matter what I say I will draw ire regardless because there are people who see me for what they assumed I done which unfortunately the NDA prevents you from seeing the other amounts of work I do. Most of this is because people do not understand the CPM function still to this day nor will they ever acknowledge the given explanations. If they cannot get past the simple concept between representative and representation and which one of those applies to the CPM then there is nothing they can learn. For example people honestly believe that I report to CCP saying the forums are fine and the community is taking Legion announcement in strides. My emotions then turn into a hodgepodge of ire; delight; and few other misharmonic melodies every time this is brought up. Your second paragraph is moot; replace all instances or references to Dust with another software or hardware platform. In the end it doesn't fix an amarr damned thing. It happened? Yes. Now what? and this is part where I get most annoyed; repeating that second paragraph is not a proper answer for moving forward. No amount of pointing to the point in failure is going to fix the current issue. Fixing any problem requires acknowledgement and iteration. Not acknowledgment and infinite repetition. CCP Knows they screwed up and admitted it to the player base and is making amends as they plan out how to handle everything and gather answers for the coming months. The bunch of 'I don't knows' is FAR better and rather refreshing for once than CCP in 2013 who said mostly said "This is coming Soon(tm)" Additionally another problem the community majority has is seemingly a lack of awareness of a time line; press releases; and development of the company as well. Many have to placed the notice of the change in leadership and direction beneath them. The first warning should have been the end of the monthly updates something I made crap ton of noise over citing it the end of the previous roadmap. There was other warnings too; I mean just now someone noticed in GD that CCP Foxfour has been gone, and this is months old news; and people have been making notes of other notable developers no longer with the Dust 514 team and the large number of job positioning openings. Then when the lack of monthly updates did start. Because of the lack of awareness in timing the community through self reinforcement of each other's confirmation bias articulate a fantastic story so let's shed light on one of the statements being commonly trouted today. "Laser Focused" The article citing laser focus on the ps3 was back around mid october 2013; https://www.psu.com/a021393/DUST-514-designer-cites-absolutely-fabulous-relationship-with-Sony-discusses-future-of-DUST-and-EVE-Online when Dust 514 still didn't have an EP installed let alone in Shanghai at the time. A senior producer was leading the charge on development was using the month to month cycle to stymie the mortal wound of Uprising 1.0 in the absence of an EP, it was the best they could do but without proper leadership and leadership skills at the workplace the development was a mess. Work on Legion or even the mere idea of Legion existing was in nobody's at CCP's mind at the time and wouldn't for another season. So the term 'laser focus' was as accurate as you could have gotten that day. Asking that man to guess the future of what would probably be in may 2014's fanfest would have; he would have likely repeated things similar 2013's fan fest promises with maybe more defined art who knows maybe an MTAC art if a new EP was not brought in to fix the game at all and another year of broken promises and more likely an entire CPM that would have quit because the CPM would seen no reason for the institution in the first place. People seemed to quickly forget the CPM was fighting for the right for the CPM to be a legitimate and useful organization since uprising 1.0; and back in october the CPM for most part was still rather relatively helpless and powerless to do anything significant. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101452 And that there is laser focused for you. Shortly after this article is when CCP Rogue came in with a proverbial wrecking ball to the game, the studio, the community, and direction the eve online shooter will go and that wrecking ball is still swinging to this day. Changes are still coming and they are all so freakishly scary. CCP Shanghai 2014 is not going to be anything like 2013's at all. Yes it is going to hurt for Dust 514; but just a quick look at results so far. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Rattati&devbadge=1 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15113	Posted - 2014.05.19 20:47:00 - [5] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Sorry, IWS, but I'm calling bullsh!t Saberwing giving a half-assed 2 line apology in the middle of a thread =/= acknowledgement that a terrible mistake was made, or making amends. Rouge in particular has said NOTHING on the forums to suggest he has any regrets about any of this, just a few pandering responses about our "great feedback". More importantly, to my knowledge not one person from CCP has said anything, ever, about misleading us for months and pushing aurum sales 72 hours before fanfest. The bluetags completely avoid the question. Re: BS http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2014/05/fanfest-day-three-red-handed.html Re: CCP Rouge https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=160232&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2135709#post2135709 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2138585#post2138585 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2152926#post2152926 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2163698#post2163698 Re: Dust 514 developments https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Rattati&devbadge=1 Re: AUR https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2132542#post2132542 Re: Sales Planning https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2132827#post2132827 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15113	Posted - 2014.05.19 20:48:00 - [6] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Did IWS just blame the community for not seeing the shut down coming? It just gets better. Thank you for the grossly inaccurate misquote and being part of the highly unreliable sources making this community fight itself. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15116	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:10:00 - [7] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Seriously though, why are IWS not kicked off the CPM for an inability to professionally and diplomatically work with the community? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2157460#post2157460 Not very professional; not the Bendtner I knew. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2132562#post2132562 Nor is this highly diplomatic. Very unlike the Bendtner I knew. Now if we take a look at the sources of these replies we see original posts where made highly professional and highly diplomatic. Which now begs the question why even bother to cater to those who just trash everything you say in the first place not showing an ounce of respect for the effort and information brought forth. It's been nearly two weeks; and staying mad and irate is excessively unproductive. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15116	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:13:00 - [8] - Quote AFK Godfather wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: FPS cross gaming between PC and console isnt a matter of having the balls to do it. It's imo, just not possible to balance. That's a fact really hard to overcome. So if a single shard MMOFPS starts launches on PC, odds to see it someday go to console ar as thin as the remaining ozone layer. That's no troll nor anger or bitterness talking. That's a simple, reasonable and very likely scenario. As for the "'where did all the money go ?" part, that's really not the players issue..... It's been said many times that the main blame players have regarding CCP is the long period of keeping them in the dark while still selling\promoting items that may or may not have been bought by said players if they had know about legion and near future. Transparency and all that. The fact that money earned by a game isnt necessarily spend again on developing that same game is obvious and well known. The fact that Dust probably didnt generate enough money (no actual knowledge here, just sayin) to compensate the cost of past development, maintenance and\or future development is also known by most of the community as PCU was common knowledge for every player. And some never hesitated in buying stuff as a way to support CCP regarding those probable difficulties. Which makes the previous part even more painfull. So no point in trying to compare this situation with another. Or finding worse somewhere as that doesnt change nor excuse, nor makes it any easier for anyone yoooo...dropping some logic on CCPs #1 fanboy? Good luck with that... you probably wasted a few minutes of your life writing it towards him, but most of us here get it, and agree. We must be reading in entirely wrong tones because he coincided with my statements before chastising the other examples thing which I know I am guilty of. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15121	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:22:00 - [9] - Quote Commander Tuna wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Sorry, IWS, but I'm calling bullsh!t Saberwing giving a half-assed 2 line apology in the middle of a thread =/= acknowledgement that a terrible mistake was made, or making amends. Rouge in particular has said NOTHING on the forums to suggest he has any regrets about any of this, just a few pandering responses about our "great feedback". More importantly, to my knowledge not one person from CCP has said anything, ever, about misleading us for months and pushing aurum sales 72 hours before fanfest. The bluetags completely avoid the question. Re: BS http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2014/05/fanfest-day-three-red-handed.html Re: CCP Rouge https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=160232&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2135709#post2135709 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2138585#post2138585 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2152926#post2152926 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2163698#post2163698 Re: Dust 514 developments https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Rattati&devbadge=1 Re: AUR https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2132542#post2132542 Re: Sales Planning https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2132827#post2132827 Why did you link these? There is not a single apology or anything relating to what Demonsbane said? Its a bunch of posts about possible character transfers. Anything else you would like to spin to try and make a point? Re; Read CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15122	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:36:00 - [10] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: True Adamance wrote: When they provide me the Amarr HAV I have spent the past 12 months waiting for........ or Amarr ANYTHING really besides suits we have only 3 weapons and 1 equipment. 0 sockets 0 vehicles 0 nades. Amarr has the least content of ANY of the races. Yeah seriously. I am not a big fan of Amarr tech and CCP managed to get me salivating at the mouth (no homo) for Amarr HAV and Dropships. Damn, I even recently got addicted to Amarr scout due to its appropriately assault brick tanked qualities. I hate to say it but my current forecast for amarr vehicles is zilch in dust 514 or even legion at the very moment. Luckily the heathen minmatar in the same position it seems. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked