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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
48
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Posted - 2014.05.18 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Does this mean that a mercenary could try a heavy prototype suit and it won't get nerfed until you get a resource back from Legion? Sorry, I almost sneezed my drink though my nose, then I choked. What I meant to say, when the lone resource that works on dust finally get around to fixing something on dust. Are they still planning to nerf the heavy and change (nerf?) all the medium suits? Or are you still gathering data to maximize the QQs and the nerf effect?
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
898
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Posted - 2014.05.18 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
all weapon, module, and suit stats are server side.
So CCP can still mess with the numbers if they wanted to. It is covered under "balance" issues.
Public Relations - tick tick BOOM.
PSN: CallOfTheDark
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
48
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Posted - 2014.05.18 11:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:all weapon, module, and suit stats are server side.
So CCP can still mess with the numbers if they wanted to. It is covered under "balance" issues. Rats.
Probably best to not trust them and not spend SP on prototype heavy suits. Unless you have millions to spare I guess.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3076
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Does this mean that a mercenary could try a heavy prototype suit and it won't get nerfed until you get a resource back from Legion? Sorry, I almost sneezed my drink though my nose, then I choked. What I meant to say, when the lone resource that works on dust finally get around to fixing something on dust. Are they still planning to nerf the heavy and change (nerf?) all the medium suits? Or are you still gathering data to maximize the QQs and the nerf effect? Silly you nerfs to weapons are happening on the server side. For example they could decide that the combat rifle does 1HP per bullet and do it tomorrow stright away. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15090
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Posted - 2014.05.18 16:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dunno the meta on the field is slowing beginning to show the problems heavies are posing. Not my a lot but slowly; the only thing stopping them seemingly are cloaked scouts.
Overall I think it would be just better to buff mediums.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
55
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Posted - 2014.05.19 00:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dunno the meta on the field is slowing beginning to show the problems heavies are posing. Not my a lot but slowly; the only thing stopping them seemingly are cloaked scouts.
Overall I think it would be just better to buff mediums.
There you go making sense.
However, CCP stated very clearly that the mediums were incomplete and pushed out without the necessary adjustments to CPU/PG and slots. They did not make clear what the adjustments would be except now we are seeing there is little investment in doing anything in dust.
That was also the post when they stated they were deciding how much they were going to nerf the heavies. After the hue and cry they decided they needed more data. Which is saying the only thing that can stop the heavies are the overpowered scouts. Odd thing that. From our side the only thing to counter the OP invisible scouts with shotguns is a heavy as nothing has any chance against the current scouts. Cloaking has seriously broken the ground game. Which is what CCP wanted it would appear.
At least the decision making process will stay the same between dust and legion. Bad. Same as the code base.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15094
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Posted - 2014.05.19 00:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dunno the meta on the field is slowing beginning to show the problems heavies are posing. Not my a lot but slowly; the only thing stopping them seemingly are cloaked scouts.
Overall I think it would be just better to buff mediums.
There you go making sense. However, CCP stated very clearly that the mediums were incomplete and pushed out without the necessary adjustments to CPU/PG and slots. They did not make clear what the adjustments would be except now we are seeing there is little investment in doing anything in dust. That was also the post when they stated they were deciding how much they were going to nerf the heavies. After the hue and cry they decided they needed more data. Which is saying the only thing that can stop the heavies are the overpowered scouts. Odd thing that. From our side the only thing to counter the OP invisible scouts with shotguns is a heavy as nothing has any chance against the current scouts. Cloaking has seriously broken the ground game. Which is what CCP wanted it would appear. At least the decision making process will stay the same between dust and legion. Bad. Same as the code base.
Well now that the idea of legion is out; you have to understand how testing has changed; back then test sessions were harder to put together due to having it being on the ps3; now a days they just use the legion client; this equaled more developers fielding than normal generating more game time and behaviors.
That's what probably sparked the internal fear the heavies would shift in the direction of being the only viable suit aside the cloaks as developers began to use them as heavier assaults suits. Community outcry helped CPM urging to not make pre-emptive balance changes based on solely on internal game tests; give the players the chance to prove the notion and meta.
With CCP Rattati around hopefully we shouldn't be making those mistakes anymore with Dust 514. Right now CCP Rattati thinks the meta surrounding brick tanking is causing an imbalance of interesting game play decisions mostly involving the armor plates.If you got a good opinion on how to possibly fix the issue and contribute I urge you head on over to features and ideas stickies and discuss it.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
55
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Posted - 2014.05.19 00:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well now that the idea of legion is out; you have to understand how testing has changed; back then test sessions were harder to put together due to having it being on the ps3; now a days they just use the legion client; this equaled more developers fielding than normal generating more game time and behaviors.
That's what probably sparked the internal fear the heavies would shift in the direction of being the only viable suit aside the cloaks as developers began to use them as heavier assaults suits. Community outcry helped CPM urging to not make pre-emptive balance changes based on solely on internal game tests; give the players the chance to prove the notion and meta.
With CCP Rattati around hopefully we shouldn't be making those mistakes anymore with Dust 514. Right now CCP Rattati thinks the meta surrounding brick tanking is causing an imbalance of interesting game play decisions mostly involving the armor plates.If you got a good opinion on how to possibly fix the issue and contribute I urge you head on over to features and ideas stickies and discuss it.
I seriously doubt that one rational mind being added to the irrationality of CCP in general will make one whit of difference. That is assuming rationality on his part, which is not assured as yet.
The many mistakes in dust by CCP during testing, beta testing a different game then they released and massive changes on bad or at best incomplete data will not change. These behaviors are in their DNA. Whip sawing players with extreme overreactions to developers not having a single clue how gamers will play the game. That will not change as well, they have gained no insights. Indeed, they buried their collective heads in the sand of PCs and now are pushing dust back to a memory. One that they want to forget. And not work on.
They are consistent. I would never stand with one of them near my wallet or at my back.
And a slight point of contention. On adding more play testing by developers ... it's basically worthless as actual testing. We have proven that in dust. Because they do not understand gamers. They never have and they never will. EVE scammers, yes. Real gamers, no.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15094
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Posted - 2014.05.19 01:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well now that the idea of legion is out; you have to understand how testing has changed; back then test sessions were harder to put together due to having it being on the ps3; now a days they just use the legion client; this equaled more developers fielding than normal generating more game time and behaviors.
That's what probably sparked the internal fear the heavies would shift in the direction of being the only viable suit aside the cloaks as developers began to use them as heavier assaults suits. Community outcry helped CPM urging to not make pre-emptive balance changes based on solely on internal game tests; give the players the chance to prove the notion and meta.
With CCP Rattati around hopefully we shouldn't be making those mistakes anymore with Dust 514. Right now CCP Rattati thinks the meta surrounding brick tanking is causing an imbalance of interesting game play decisions mostly involving the armor plates.If you got a good opinion on how to possibly fix the issue and contribute I urge you head on over to features and ideas stickies and discuss it.
I seriously doubt that one rational mind being added to the irrationality of CCP in general will make one whit of difference. That is assuming rationality on his part, which is not assured as yet. The many mistakes in dust by CCP during testing, beta testing a different game then they released and massive changes on bad or at best incomplete data will not change. These behaviors are in their DNA. Whip sawing players with extreme overreactions to developers not having a single clue how gamers will play the game. That will not change as well, they have gained no insights. Indeed, they buried their collective heads in the sand of PCs and now are pushing dust back to a memory. One that they want to forget. And not work on. They are consistent. I would never stand with one of them near my wallet or at my back. And a slight point of contention. On adding more play testing by developers ... it's basically worthless as actual testing. We have proven that in dust. Because they do not understand gamers. They never have and they never will. EVE scammers, yes. Real gamers, no.
You know what they say about chains though; overall I think the problem relied on too few developers involved in too many things. Most specifically the content team whose overtasked with just about everything including generating new content and balance at the same time. Creates a horrible type of bottleneck and terrible traffic jams where one tries to balance the game on things in the pipe or ties to balance for meta that he is no longer familiar with because the content they introduced internally. Aside that internal testing is still invaluable especially when they find far more serious bugs that you and I will never have the pleasure of known.
Hopefully with better leadership and the bunch of new hires I hope the workload is spread reasonable. With dedicated balance folks who are not focused on content generation.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
720
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Posted - 2014.05.19 01:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Honestly i think heavies are in a pretty good place right now. Course i play a heavy. I play a caldari heavy and i really like the mobility. I can solo many medium suits when i pick the encounter. That is to say that i engage straglers when i am soloing and making sure i can close the distance fast so i can be well within optimal range of my burst hmg. Doing this means when i pick the fights i normally come out on top in a very fast gunfight normally i still even have some shields left, so there is only need for a short pause between fights.
This being said when the medium frames (or a dam cloaked scout) pick the encounter i normally am at a disadvantage because they are smart enough to engage at greater distance and my hmg is working outside optimal range so my bullets are going everywhere except on target. These encounters I generally have to retreat from and find a better way to engage or just get out of dodge. Scouts right now can have pretty darned good ehps AND be sneaky devils. I doubt that was something that was intentional but is simply a result of the cloak giving such a great dampening bonus when in use. |
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RYN0CER0S
Rise Of Old Dudes
340
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Posted - 2014.05.19 01:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Medium buffs and increased movement penalty to Armor Plates on Light frames and Scouts are definitely in order and should be easily achievable.
Maybe something about GêàShields = GêàCloak?.... Flux kills Cloak? Something. Something minor. I just can't put my finger on it....
PSN: The_Rynoceros
Destiny = Biomass
Console Master Race
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Lynn Beck
Heaven's Lost Property
1673
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Glyd Path wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dunno the meta on the field is slowing beginning to show the problems heavies are posing. Not my a lot but slowly; the only thing stopping them seemingly are cloaked scouts.
Overall I think it would be just better to buff mediums.
There you go making sense. However, CCP stated very clearly that the mediums were incomplete and pushed out without the necessary adjustments to CPU/PG and slots. They did not make clear what the adjustments would be except now we are seeing there is little investment in doing anything in dust. That was also the post when they stated they were deciding how much they were going to nerf the heavies. After the hue and cry they decided they needed more data. Which is saying the only thing that can stop the heavies are the overpowered scouts. Odd thing that. From our side the only thing to counter the OP invisible scouts with shotguns is a heavy as nothing has any chance against the current scouts. Cloaking has seriously broken the ground game. Which is what CCP wanted it would appear. At least the decision making process will stay the same between dust and legion. Bad. Same as the code base. Well now that the idea of legion is out; you have to understand how testing has changed; back then test sessions were harder to put together due to having it being on the ps3; now a days they just use the legion client; this equaled more developers fielding than normal generating more game time and behaviors. That's what probably sparked the internal fear the heavies would shift in the direction of being the only viable suit aside the cloaks as developers began to use them as heavier assaults suits. Community outcry helped CPM urging to not make pre-emptive balance changes based on solely on internal game tests; give the players the chance to prove the notion and meta. With CCP Rattati around hopefully we shouldn't be making those mistakes anymore with Dust 514. Right now CCP Rattati thinks the meta surrounding brick tanking is causing an imbalance of interesting game play decisions mostly involving the armor plates.If you got a good opinion on how to possibly fix the issue and contribute I urge you head on over to features and ideas stickies and discuss it. You want to fix brick tanking?
Buff the living shite out of BOTH armor AND shields.
Make a Armor Plate(heavy?) grant 200-250 armor, and have a penalty that DECREASES as you use better plates.
i.e. Basic Heavy Plate grants 200 HP, slows down 5%, and costs 20/6. Complex Heavy Plate grants 200 HP, slows down by 3%, and costs 50/12.
Ferroscales will grant 100/115/135 HP, and cost 15/4 at basic and 40/8 at complex.
Reactives grant 80 HP, slows down by 3% regardless, and grant 2/4/6 reps. Cost is reduced to between heavy and Ferroscale.
Shield extenders grant 66 Hp regardless of tier, and the penalties drop as you skill them up. Should cost MORE CPU, but LESS PG. A shield extender shouldn't be easier to fit on armor suits.
Heavy Extenders grant 100 HP or so, and reduce shield recharge, costs more fitting.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15096
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Posted - 2014.05.19 02:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote: You want to fix brick tanking?
Buff the living shite out of BOTH armor AND shields.
Make a Armor Plate(heavy?) grant 200-250 armor, and have a penalty that DECREASES as you use better plates.
i.e. Basic Heavy Plate grants 200 HP, slows down 5%, and costs 20/6. Complex Heavy Plate grants 200 HP, slows down by 3%, and costs 50/12.
Ferroscales will grant 100/115/135 HP, and cost 15/4 at basic and 40/8 at complex.
Reactives grant 80 HP, slows down by 3% regardless, and grant 2/4/6 reps. Cost is reduced to between heavy and Ferroscale.
Shield extenders grant 66 Hp regardless of tier, and the penalties drop as you skill them up. Should cost MORE CPU, but LESS PG. A shield extender shouldn't be easier to fit on armor suits.
Heavy Extenders grant 100 HP or so, and reduce shield recharge, costs more fitting.
Wrong thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=162627&find=unread
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3080
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Glyd Path wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dunno the meta on the field is slowing beginning to show the problems heavies are posing. Not my a lot but slowly; the only thing stopping them seemingly are cloaked scouts.
Overall I think it would be just better to buff mediums.
There you go making sense. However, CCP stated very clearly that the mediums were incomplete and pushed out without the necessary adjustments to CPU/PG and slots. They did not make clear what the adjustments would be except now we are seeing there is little investment in doing anything in dust. That was also the post when they stated they were deciding how much they were going to nerf the heavies. After the hue and cry they decided they needed more data. Which is saying the only thing that can stop the heavies are the overpowered scouts. Odd thing that. From our side the only thing to counter the OP invisible scouts with shotguns is a heavy as nothing has any chance against the current scouts. Cloaking has seriously broken the ground game. Which is what CCP wanted it would appear. At least the decision making process will stay the same between dust and legion. Bad. Same as the code base. Well now that the idea of legion is out; you have to understand how testing has changed; back then test sessions were harder to put together due to having it being on the ps3; now a days they just use the legion client; this equaled more developers fielding than normal generating more game time and behaviors. That's what probably sparked the internal fear the heavies would shift in the direction of being the only viable suit aside the cloaks as developers began to use them as heavier assaults suits. Community outcry helped CPM urging to not make pre-emptive balance changes based on solely on internal game tests; give the players the chance to prove the notion and meta. With CCP Rattati around hopefully we shouldn't be making those mistakes anymore with Dust 514. Right now CCP Rattati thinks the meta surrounding brick tanking is causing an imbalance of interesting game play decisions mostly involving the armor plates.If you got a good opinion on how to possibly fix the issue and contribute I urge you head on over to features and ideas stickies and discuss it. What the ****? First you nerf damage mods because you could kill too quickly and now you are moaning that people got rid of them and bricktank instead. Seriously make up your mind. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15096
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 02:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:
What the ****? First you nerf damage mods because you could kill too quickly and now you are moaning that people got rid of them and bricktank instead. Seriously make up your mind.
I don't nerf things.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3080
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 05:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The dark cloud wrote:
What the ****? First you nerf damage mods because you could kill too quickly and now you are moaning that people got rid of them and bricktank instead. Seriously make up your mind.
I don't nerf things. Ah well CCP does and your in contact with them so i just throw you in the same boat. |
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