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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3394
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Posted - 2014.05.16 23:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
(This is mainly about the Gallente and Caldari Scouts, the Minmatar and Amarr are not the problem)
It's the passive bonuses.
A Gallente Scout at level 5 gets a FREE profile dampener and a range amplifier from the passive bonuses without having to take up a lot slots Caldari Scout gets a FREE range amplifier and precision enhancer.
But why?
My Minmatar Logistics gets a bonus to repair tools, but ONLY if I have one equipped. If I'm taking up an equipment slot with a repair tool, then I get the bonus. If that slot is taken up by anything else, the bonus is wasted. I don't get a FREE repair tool on my suit at all times just by upgrading my logistics skill.
My Amarr Assault gets a bonus to the heat build-up of laser weaponry, but I ONLY make use of that bonus if I'm using a laser type weapon. If I use another type of weapon the bonus is useless.
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Why should scouts get free modules on their suits just by upgrading their dropsuit level? Gallente Scouts should have to equip a profile dampener to get the profile bonus, and a range amplifier too get the range bonus.
That way, if a scout wants to tank their suit they can...at the cost of losing their passive bonus. So a gallente scout might have 500+ armor, but it would lose the ability to passivly scan easily and stay hidden. The Caldari Scout could get 400 shield, but you don't get the vision that you would by using the precision mod.
I'm not sure if the best way to do this would be to change the skills to give an efficacy bonus (a bonus on top of the module), since making that bonus too big would make it OP if you use multiple modules, but making it too small makes it worthless. But some way to only give the bonus if the module is used would be the best solution.
Besides, scouts already have this for the cloak field...instead of just giving scouts more cpu/pg per level in order to make room for the cloak, you HAVE to use a cloak to get the reduction. It just makes sense.
Am I wrong? Should my minmatar logistics instead be the one getting a permanent repair tool that doesn't take up a slot?
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
8620
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Posted - 2014.05.16 23:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
So from what I get from this, is that the Gallente and Caldari scouts should have bonuses towards the Module, not the statistic? Basically, shifting them towards a specialized role as opposed to a jack?
Sounds great.
Official Atiim Feedback Thread
-HAND
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Maitue Mae
Vortex State Empire
84
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Posted - 2014.05.16 23:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm down. Good thing I actualy use those mods.
MAG SVER Veteran.
Five Hundredth and Fourteenth Legion: The Dusters.
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LtGen Shanks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2014.05.16 23:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
All my GalScout fits have a complex range and profile damp on, but I can still tank them with relatively high ehp. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3397
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Posted - 2014.05.17 00:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
LtGen Shanks wrote:All my GalScout fits have a complex range and profile damp on, but I can still tank them with relatively high ehp.
But then you must be sacrificing speed.
Either way, you're not going to have 500+ armor with only two slots for plates.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Ahkhomi Cypher
Team Bad Decisions
49
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Posted - 2014.05.17 00:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dont forget the free +3 reps galscouts get and the boss mode hit detection cals get.
And no i dont have any proof on that calscout comment. |
RECON BY FIRE
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
396
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Posted - 2014.05.17 00:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Has this really not been obvious from the start of 1.8!? I thought everyone knew that is what makes the Cal and Gal scouts so OP.
Stuff....?
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1536
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Posted - 2014.05.17 00:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I agree there are issues, but if they are based upon that kind of ideology it should be universally applicable.
"I've made a huge mistake."
-G.O.B. Bluth
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Fiddlestaxp
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Negative-Feedback
924
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Posted - 2014.05.17 00:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I agree there are issues, but if they are based upon that kind of ideology it should be universally applicable.
Min/Amarr aren't a problem as they are, and the minmatar bonus is only applicable when hacking a point. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3399
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Posted - 2014.05.17 01:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I completely agree with you, but you're comparing apples to oranges I'm afraid.
Well if the gallente naturally had a lower profile as their racial suit advantage then it would be a completely separate issue. The racial advantage the gallente have is the natural HP regen. Minmatar have a naturally higher stamina regen. Amarr have an excess of total stamina, and the caldari have naturally higher shield recharge rates.
The minmatar's bonus is to nova knives, which you have to equip to get the bonus. But the hacking speed thing could also be grouped with this...i.e. you have to use a codebreaker to get the hacking bonus.
It's just that hacking speed isn't a combat/balance thing really.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2581
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Posted - 2014.05.17 01:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
So, an Amarr Scout will have to use Cardiac Regulators abs the Minmatar sidearm damage mods/code breakers?
If you do that, you'd be further lowering the use of a minmatar scout.
Not that I care anymore, I'm just letting you know. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3399
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Posted - 2014.05.17 02:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:So, an Amarr Scout will have to use Cardiac Regulators and the Minmatar sidearm damage mods (solely for Knives, if I may add)/code breakers?
If you do that, you'd be further lowering the use of a minmatar scout.
Not that I care anymore, I'm just letting you know.
Amarr would have to use one if they want the bonus, and no the minmatar would not have to use sidearm damage mods. They already have to equip knives to get the bonus silly.
But like I said at the top of the freaking post, this is mainly directed towards gallente and caldari scouts, as the passive bonuses for the Amarr and minmatar are not exactly related to combat (hacking and stamina), whereas the bonuses on the Gal and Cal scouts are all related to combat and e-war
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Hynox Xitio
0uter.Heaven
1080
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Posted - 2014.05.17 04:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Just remove all suits and items except for the Gallente scout and the Duvolle Tac. Then this game will finally be balanced forever.
Unleash the Fogwoggler, follow your dreams.
( -íº -£-û -íº) /)
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3207
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Posted - 2014.05.17 04:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I agree there are issues, but if they are based upon that kind of ideology it should be universally applicable.
They shouldn't even have a higher regain than the Amarr. The stamina regain/max was an Amarr racial trait that some ass gave to yall.
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
8635
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Posted - 2014.05.17 04:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I agree there are issues, but if they are based upon that kind of ideology it should be universally applicable. They shouldn't even have a higher regain than the Amarr. The stamina regain/max was an Amarr racial trait that some ass gave to yall.
You mean saint? 
CPM Game
Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :)
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3207
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Posted - 2014.05.17 04:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So does that mean the Minmatar shouldn't have the stamina regen? I know we aren't OP, but if giving suits free modules per level is an issue, then essentially you are creating a double standard.
I agree there are issues, but if they are based upon that kind of ideology it should be universally applicable. They shouldn't even have a higher regain than the Amarr. The stamina regain/max was an Amarr racial trait that some ass gave to yall. You mean saint?
Who should be purged with the rest of the heathens.
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
The dyst0pian Corporation
Zero-Day
1508
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Posted - 2014.05.17 05:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hynox Xitio wrote:Just remove all suits and items except for the Gallente scout and the Duvolle Tac. Then this game will finally be balanced forever.
How'd you know my fit?
Jack-Of-All-Trades, GJR Approved
Favorite Suits Weapons- GLU-5, SCR, SCP, BP, HMG, Turtle, Tux, CalLogi, CalAssault
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1086
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Posted - 2014.05.17 06:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
I wanna say it took you a while to arrive at the conclusion. But it's the correct one : ) Please, stop referring to your minmatar logistics - it's a valid point but getting old seeing you bemoaning lost logi glory. Logi's were too good and now they simply good.
The passive bonuses on those two scout suits are just too good. Obliging the suits to at least fit the certain module does improve balance. It still won't fix them:
- Caldari will continue to see everything and Galente will continue to have too many low slots. This is especially the case since most gal scouts do still equip a range extender or a dampener and Cal's for sure equip both range and enhancers.
So essentially they already use those mods and forcing them to use them would be redundant.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Powerh8er
Arrogance.
Caps and Mercs
418
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Posted - 2014.05.17 06:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
I somewhat agree, as I say when I hear anyone ***** about the heavy suit or HMG. The heavies only purpose on the battlefield is to wreck people/material and have no other value god forbid it being succesful at it.
I think the rise of the slayer scout is total BS, their role should be gathering intel, drop uplinks behind enemy lines, hacking or do some occasional assassination or sabotage.
Now we have this uber cyberwarrior running wild and can basically kill anything on the battlefield with ease and do all that intelligence passively without any effort. While the heavy cant even effectively shoot across a road with the short ranged HMG because that would be OP.
Invisible shotgunners with passive scans for f sake thats OP.
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
94
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Posted - 2014.05.17 11:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
I really like the idea.
I have just spent a long time on protofits comparing tanked Gal scout fits with Gal logi suits. The brief conclusions of which are that the logi looses out by either about 7% movement or on profile. Though has the option to fit a sizable amount more hp than the scout if it sacrifices movement and profile.
The idea I came up with for balance is that I think repair nanohives should be removed from the game.
Now before people call me crazy or get their pitchforks, the problem is not just scouts, but armour tanking in general. Armour is balanced with shields on the basis that 2 comp shields is approximately the same hp a 1 comp armour, because you are supposed to need a repper as well. However people get round this by using rep hives. This results in very highly armoured suits such as Gal scouts that outshine medium suits by equipping silly amounts of armour.
I know this wouldn't affect Cal scouts but I think Shayz's idea should be implemented as well to deal with that. |
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
94
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Posted - 2014.05.17 11:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I wanna say it took you a while to arrive at the conclusion. But it's the correct one : ) Please, stop referring to your minmatar logistics - it's a valid point but getting old seeing you bemoaning lost logi glory. Logi's were too good and now they simply good.
The passive bonuses on those two scout suits are just too good. Obliging the suits to at least fit the certain module does improve balance. It still won't fix them:
- Caldari will continue to see everything and Galente will continue to have too many low slots. This is especially the case since most gal scouts do still equip a range extender or a dampener and Cal's for sure equip both range and enhancers.
So essentially they already use those mods and forcing them to use them would be redundant.
I don't think a Cal scout equipped with precision mods and a range extender, or a Gal scout equipped with a profile dampener and a range extender would be particularly op. Though maybe their cpu/pg could be reduced a little as well. Just going on my experience of min scouts, which are pretty balanced by pg restrictions.
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Smooth Assassin
Stardust Incorporation
IMMORTAL REGIME
1451
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Posted - 2014.05.17 11:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
So if you want to be fully skilled in a suit, you gotta skill in it's PROs?
Assassination is my thing.
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3406
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Posted - 2014.05.17 12:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Smooth Assassin wrote:So if you want to be fully skilled in a suit, you gotta skill in it's PROs?
I have to do this in order to get the maximum from my logistics bonus do I not?
I have to do this to get the maximum from my assault bonus do I not?
I should then have to do this to get the maxiumum from my scout bonus.
Just makes sense.
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joe29140
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2014.05.17 13:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:(This is mainly about the Gallente and Caldari Scouts, the Minmatar and Amarr are not the problem)
It's the passive bonuses.
A Gallente Scout at level 5 gets a FREE profile dampener and a range amplifier from the passive bonuses without having to take up a lot slots Caldari Scout gets a FREE range amplifier and precision enhancer.
Am I wrong? Should my minmatar logistics instead be the one getting a permanent repair tool that doesn't take up a slot?
Only because I'm bored, I'll throw in my findings and opinion. First off I'm not saying these numbers on precision and dampening are correct, but this is what I've found, if this is how the bonuses work. My math maybe wrong, so I'm open to corrections.
Assuming All Proto Trees for Suits and Modules (that's level 5 maxed)
Precision
Caldari starts at 40 * 25%(suit) = 30 * 10%(passive for mod lv5) = 27 * 20%(1 mod) =21.6 * 20% (2nd mod) = 17.28
Dampening
Gallente starts at 35 * 25%(suit) =26.25 * 10%(passive for mod Lv5) = 23.625 * 25%(1mod) =17.718 * 25%(2nd mod)=13.29
So anyways that's a piece of my calculations. What I question about these numbers are two things. One did I take off the percentages in the proper order? Two even if these numbers do hold to be true, who's to say that's how the actually break down and work during actual game play? The only way to test for my 2nd question, would be to enter a PC battle have a cease fire and find out with modules in place, what it would take to see and remain hidden between two fully proto scouts, one of each type Caldari and Gallente. Even better yet, Get 4 proto type scouts one of each race in a cease fire PC battle and run different proto combinations for scouts and proto precision, range, and dampening. Good Luck with that.
In my opinion, there are a lot of other changes that need to happen for better game play, keeping the player base, and enticing new players to test the game which always has been and continues to be a Beta for the PC platform.
- Not new over 40,000 confirmed kills, NPC for me, 100% mercenary
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9770
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Posted - 2014.05.17 13:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ahkhomi Cypher wrote:Dont forget the free +3 reps galscouts get and the boss mode hit detection cals get.
And no i dont have any proof on that calscout comment.
Ah yes because 3hp/s makes them god mode.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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