DUST Search - If I were to redo DUST 514

Cyrus Militani wrote:

I agree with Vell0cet's letter to CCP completely. Especially the part about the skill progression. Here is a excerpt from Vell0cet post that puts how I feel into words better than I can:

Vell0cet wrote:

...
I think there has been a serious miscalibration in the analysis of DUSTGÇÖs strengths and weaknesses that went into the planning for how to design Project LegionGÇÖs progression system. Nearly all MMOs have the serious challenge of creating a progression system that is compelling for GÇ£end-gameGÇ¥ veterans. Most fall into the trap of World of WarcraftGÇÖs GÇ£gear treadmillGÇ¥ system where the cool stuff you work for becomes obsolete as a better version is released several months/years later.

EVE solved this problem with itGÇÖs skill tree, and DUST inherited that solution by being derived from it. In EVE, all ships are useful: your Rifter is still fun to use even after you unlock the Wolf. There are times when a cheap ship is better than an expensive one, and youGÇÖre forced to make those decisions about when you want to risk exponentially more expensive ships for linear power advantages every time you undock. ItGÇÖs part of the GÇ£secret sauceGÇ¥ that has made EVE the only MMO to grow every year since launch
...
High SP players can squeeze higher meta modules into that militia suit and create great ISK efficient fits with it. ItGÇÖs incredibly gratifying to kill someone wearing a very expensive suit using a cheap one. The asymmetrical nature of DUST 514 is what makes the game compelling. There is supposed to be an economic ecosystem where you run cheap suits/fits at a disadvantage or grind PvE (in theory) to build ISK so you can buy better suits that give you an advantage. DUSTGÇÖs economy is broken because of the ISK faucet PC has become, not because of this modelGÇöwhich is excellent
...
Incentive for power should be balanced by the pain of grinding for ISK (via cheap fits in PvP or PvE). There will always be a strong desire to run the best possible stuff. This needs to be tempered by making the best suits and gear take a lot of player time and effort to acquire (by acquire, I donGÇÖt mean unlock once and have forever, I mean each death)GÇöeach death in top-of-the-line gear should really hurt.

The current DUST 514 skill system isn't perfect, but it works well. Changing it to be more in-line with mainstream MMORPG's will not help the game, it will inevitably destroy it. As Vell0cet points out, just because you CAN use proto gear doesn't mean it's economical to do so.

If the game were to somewhat re-imagined, these are some core concepts I would change:

1 - Eliminate SP and skill trees.

Skill trees make very little sense for FPS games, at least when it concerns ability in battle for most things. FPS games require actual human skill to play. Reaction time. Aiming various weapons. Getting used to recoil from different weapons. Team strategy. Flanking. Outflanking. Phycological warfare.

Equipment should be usable by anyone, as long as they have the ISK to buy it. If you die with expensive equipment it should hurt your (virtual) wallet. You should be driven to create economical fits. Equipment should not define a good player, how well they use it should.

Things like increasing the damage of a weapon or decreasing the charge time should not be skill based. It should be based on the weapon you're using. How well that weapon was constructed.

Things like time to reload a given weapon is one of the few things that require "skill" that isn't translatable through M/KB or controller. With that you could make the time to reload slightly faster every time you do it, and more so if you do it in the heat of battle. Things like time to reload should be based on repeated use of that class of weapon.

(To contrast, MMORPGs are different because they use one-button press spells / abilities. The only skill involved is strategizing what to use at the right time and in the right combinations.)

2 - Introduce crafting.

Remove static classes, such as Scout, Sentinel, Commando, Logistics, Assault, etc... Just have Light frame, Medium frame, and Heavy frame as a starting point and allow players to somehow interactively define/craft classes themselves. Each crafter can have their own secret-sauce. The act of crafting increases your success vs failure rate.

Allow Legion players to craft Dropsuit stuff (Dropsuits, modules, weapons, equipment) and make the materials needed buyable from EVE miners.

Do the same thing with vehicles, but only allow EVE players to craft vehicles.

(Not every merc will always have the same exact gear. Stats on each item would vary. Gear with some positives and negatives would be more common. Gear with mostly positives would be more rare. For example, a Forge gun might have quick charge time, but the damage would suffer. A Forge gun with quick charge time and high damage would more rare.)

--

If this were to happen there would be no need for respecs. The skill of the human player would be emphasized. The economical aspect, which I believe to be DUST's biggest strength, would be enhanced.

(I had a #3 w/ match-making, but I felt it udetracted from my main topic, so I split it off here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2164573)


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Vordred Knight scratch my balls 184	Posted - 2014.05.17 03:10:00 - [1] - Quote Cyrus Militani wrote: I agree with Vell0cet's letter to CCP completely. Especially the part about the skill progression. Here is a excerpt from Vell0cet post that puts how I feel into words better than I can: Vell0cet wrote: ... I think there has been a serious miscalibration in the analysis of DUSTGÇÖs strengths and weaknesses that went into the planning for how to design Project LegionGÇÖs progression system. Nearly all MMOs have the serious challenge of creating a progression system that is compelling for GÇ£end-gameGÇ¥ veterans. Most fall into the trap of World of WarcraftGÇÖs GÇ£gear treadmillGÇ¥ system where the cool stuff you work for becomes obsolete as a better version is released several months/years later. EVE solved this problem with itGÇÖs skill tree, and DUST inherited that solution by being derived from it. In EVE, all ships are useful: your Rifter is still fun to use even after you unlock the Wolf. There are times when a cheap ship is better than an expensive one, and youGÇÖre forced to make those decisions about when you want to risk exponentially more expensive ships for linear power advantages every time you undock. ItGÇÖs part of the GÇ£secret sauceGÇ¥ that has made EVE the only MMO to grow every year since launch ... High SP players can squeeze higher meta modules into that militia suit and create great ISK efficient fits with it. ItGÇÖs incredibly gratifying to kill someone wearing a very expensive suit using a cheap one. The asymmetrical nature of DUST 514 is what makes the game compelling. There is supposed to be an economic ecosystem where you run cheap suits/fits at a disadvantage or grind PvE (in theory) to build ISK so you can buy better suits that give you an advantage. DUSTGÇÖs economy is broken because of the ISK faucet PC has become, not because of this modelGÇöwhich is excellent ... Incentive for power should be balanced by the pain of grinding for ISK (via cheap fits in PvP or PvE). There will always be a strong desire to run the best possible stuff. This needs to be tempered by making the best suits and gear take a lot of player time and effort to acquire (by acquire, I donGÇÖt mean unlock once and have forever, I mean each death)GÇöeach death in top-of-the-line gear should really hurt. The current DUST 514 skill system isn't perfect, but it works well. Changing it to be more in-line with mainstream MMORPG's will not help the game, it will inevitably destroy it. As Vell0cet points out, just because you CAN use proto gear doesn't mean it's economical to do so. If the game were to somewhat re-imagined, these are some core concepts I would change: 1 - Eliminate SP and skill trees. Skill trees make very little sense for FPS games, at least when it concerns ability in battle for most things. FPS games require actual human skill to play. Reaction time. Aiming various weapons. Getting used to recoil from different weapons. Team strategy. Flanking. Outflanking. Phycological warfare. Equipment should be usable by anyone, as long as they have the ISK to buy it. If you die with expensive equipment it should hurt your (virtual) wallet. You should be driven to create economical fits. Equipment should not define a good player, how well they use it should. Things like increasing the damage of a weapon or decreasing the charge time should not be skill based. It should be based on the weapon you're using. How well that weapon was constructed. Things like time to reload a given weapon is one of the few things that require "skill" that isn't translatable through M/KB or controller. With that you could make the time to reload slightly faster every time you do it, and more so if you do it in the heat of battle. Things like time to reload should be based on repeated use of that class of weapon. (To contrast, MMORPGs are different because they use one-button press spells / abilities. The only skill involved is strategizing what to use at the right time and in the right combinations.) 2 - Introduce crafting. Remove static classes, such as Scout, Sentinel, Commando, Logistics, Assault, etc... Just have Light frame, Medium frame, and Heavy frame as a starting point and allow players to somehow interactively define/craft classes themselves. Each crafter can have their own secret-sauce. The act of crafting increases your success vs failure rate. Allow Legion players to craft Dropsuit stuff (Dropsuits, modules, weapons, equipment) and make the materials needed buyable from EVE miners. Do the same thing with vehicles, but only allow EVE players to craft vehicles. (Not every merc will always have the same exact gear. Stats on each item would vary. Gear with some positives and negatives would be more common. Gear with mostly positives would be more rare. For example, a Forge gun might have quick charge time, but the damage would suffer. A Forge gun with quick charge time and high damage would more rare.) -- If this were to happen there would be no need for respecs. The skill of the human player would be emphasized. The economical aspect, which I believe to be DUST's biggest strength, would be enhanced. (I had a #3 w/ match-making, but I felt it udetracted from my main topic, so I split it off here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2164573) lol you got 69 likes sooo immature i am Markdown: