DUST Search - Please Minimize Hitscan

medomai grey wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

So rail rifles, an electromagnetic round doesn't get ballistics, yet a light beam does? Do not delude yourself, it's not abojt immersion you just want a single weapon to have bitscan while everyone else flails around.

Gallante Plasma Rounds: Have such little mass at such high velocity, the rounds would be more likely to fall up
Minmatar Projectile Rounds: The only ammo that could possibly have any ballistics, except for the fact it travels faster than the speed of sound, you wouldn't see any bullet drop before it left the map.
Amarr Photon Rounds: It's light, pure light, uneffected by gravity and the fastest travelling projectile in game.

None of them have ballistics, it's the future.

Was this directed at me? Because I clearly stated: "But considering limitations in technology, other weapons may have to have hit scan out of necessity."

I'm fairly certain that rail guns don't have electromagnetic rounds, so much as the rounds are propelled by a magnetic field generated by an electric current. As for light beams having hit scan, it makes sense because nothing moves faster than light to my knowledge and the distances the light beam travels is too short to matter. Although this same reasoning can be applied to other weapons as well.

Hybrid rounds, according to lore, are containers that suspend plasma using electromagnetic fields to contain plasma. It is the choice munition of the Caldari and Gallente. Although the Gallente plasma rifle, shotgun, and ion pistol appear to fire plasma instead of hybrid rounds.

Don't honestly know if the projectile speed of Minmatar weapons is the same as the speed of sound.

Light can be affected by gravity. Its why black holes are black.

The physics from your posts sound odd to me. Can you explain in great detail and source where you are coming up with your theories?


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Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2857	Posted - 2014.05.16 08:22:00 - [1] - Quote So rail rifles, an electromagnetic round doesn't get ballistics, yet a light beam does? Do not delude yourself, it's not abojt immersion you just want a single weapon to have bitscan while everyone else flails around. Gallante Plasma Rounds: Have such little mass at such high velocity, the rounds would be more likely to fall up Minmatar Projectile Rounds: The only ammo that could possibly have any ballistics, except for the fact it travels faster than the speed of sound, you wouldn't see any bullet drop before it left the map. Amarr Photon Rounds: It's light, pure light, uneffected by gravity and the fastest travelling projectile in game. None of them have ballistics, it's the future. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2858	Posted - 2014.05.16 10:49:00 - [2] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: This is where game mechanics and game lore dont agree. Take a look at any weapon that fires a projectile... do those rounds look like they are firing at 2500 m/s? Its more like ~100 m/s or so to me. They really need to fix that... either rewrite the lore or change the mechanic... doesnt matter. So we know the forge guns and rail guns are both projectiles which are not hitscan weapons and definitely suffer from CQC issues. Hitscan = bullet magnetism from what I understand (I know aim assist is a large contributor to bullet magnetism as well). If its not expensive, I think Buster has a point. There is a reason they dont have hitscan weapons in BF4 after all. It would truly make low rof weapons like the rail rifle intrinsically bad in CQC and high RoF weapons (all min bullet hoses) very powerful in CQC. well let's take a look at a Photon Round Speed: 670,000,000 MPH Mass: 0Kg Bullet drop per 100m: 0 Travel Time per 100m 0 now a plasma round: Speed 430,000,000 MPH Mass: 0Kg Bullet drop per 100m: 0 Travel Time per 100m: 0 next a railgun slug, bear in mind it is a hybrid ammo type and travels so fast that it physically creates an energy field as it travels, meaning it creating a 10jl field with a 30g slug (about same weight as 50.cal) requires near light speed. Speed: 600,000,000 MPH Mass: (including relativity adjustments) 30Kg Bullet drop per 100m: 0.000,000,001m Travel Time per 100m: 0 finally the minmatar projectile round, by far the slowest firing rifle round in game, even so the bullets themselves are incredibly aerodynamic to the point where drag is non-exsistant (flying is when your verlocity overcomes drag and gravity) not to mention the minmatar use highly advanced explosives that contain kinetic energy on par with a bunker buster missile strike in every shot. Speed: 320,000,000 MPH Mass: 10g Bullet drop per 100m: 0.000,000,01m Travel time per 100m: 0.000.000,000,01 seconds This why rifles and other weapons like this are hitscan, the law already supports it, the ballistics are so minuete that there is physically no point bothering with them, the only reason the forge gun has travel time is the slug is already 30 Kg at base, meaning every round fired leaves the barrel with the same mass as tank, forge gun's are literally crashing tanks into you, even then the travel time is almost instantaneous once it leaves the barrel, somewhere about 300m a second. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2860	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:15:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Monkey, I'm afraid those are some incredibly dubious physics there. That rail rifle round requires approximately 10000 terajoules to move at that speed. It doesn't create an energy field as it moves, it's propelled by magnetic fields in the rail rifle. That can take it up to a few times the speed of sound, but it won't take it to ~0.9c. The plasma round doesn't move at that speed either given that it's just a highly ionised form of matter. Regardless, even at much lower speeds like 2500m/s (which has already been stated as the speed of a rail shot) it'd cross the effective range so fast it's not worth considering. A combat rifle round, which might appear the obvious candidate for ballistics, likely moves in excess of Mach 3, given that high powered modern rifles are already capable of attaining such speeds. That's about 1000 m/s. At that speed, it'd cross the effective range of the combat rifle in about 8 milliseconds, or 0.08 of a second. That's half the human reaction time. It'd be completely unnoticeable except as a cost to performance. meh i'm currently revising for exams I can't be bothered with excats, however. the rail slug fired from a rail rifle is a hybrid ammo type, in that it moves sooo fast that it can be counted as both energy and projectile, which means it's either wrapped in a magnetic field (likely but only if you use a slug capable of maintaining the field, moving so fast that it's physical mass is converted to energy via E=mc^2, or moving so fast that it creates an ionised sheath as it moves through the air, any which way you look at it, there is gonna be a hell of a lot of energy. And hell of a lot of speed. The plasma can technically travel at any speed upto the speed of light, since it's mass pretty much becomes pure energy, wrapped in energy. As for the combat rifle, even at the speed of sound it's more than enough to illistruate the point we are both making! If you want I'd be happy to actually work this stuff out sometime/ Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2864	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:17:00 - [4] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So rail rifles, an electromagnetic round doesn't get ballistics, yet a light beam does? Do not delude yourself, it's not abojt immersion you just want a single weapon to have bitscan while everyone else flails around. Gallante Plasma Rounds: Have such little mass at such high velocity, the rounds would be more likely to fall up Minmatar Projectile Rounds: The only ammo that could possibly have any ballistics, except for the fact it travels faster than the speed of sound, you wouldn't see any bullet drop before it left the map. Amarr Photon Rounds: It's light, pure light, uneffected by gravity and the fastest travelling projectile in game. None of them have ballistics, it's the future. Was this directed at me? Because I clearly stated: "But considering limitations in technology, other weapons may have to have hit scan out of necessity." I'm fairly certain that rail guns don't have electromagnetic rounds, so much as the rounds are propelled by a magnetic field generated by an electric current. As for light beams having hit scan, it makes sense because nothing moves faster than light to my knowledge and the distances the light beam travels is too short to matter. Although this same reasoning can be applied to other weapons as well. Hybrid rounds, according to lore, are containers that suspend plasma using electromagnetic fields to contain plasma. It is the choice munition of the Caldari and Gallente. Although the Gallente plasma rifle, shotgun, and ion pistol appear to fire plasma instead of hybrid rounds. Don't honestly know if the projectile speed of Minmatar weapons is the same as the speed of sound. Light can be affected by gravity. Its why black holes are black. The physics from your posts sound odd to me. Can you explain in great detail and source where you are coming up with your theories? Certain experimental rounds are being made in an attempt to hold the charge when fired from a rail gun. (No source since railguns are still under military development) Actually according to lore there are 2 types of hybrid round, hybrid projectile, hybird energy. Hybrid energy rounds are balls of plasma contained within a polarity shell that breaks on impact allowing the plasma out, (as you said). These are munitions used by gallante weaponry Hybrid projectile rounds, used by the caldari are slugs wrapped in a phasic energy of some sort, a result of either it's speed through the atmosphere, or the method via which they are launched (this depends on the rail tech they use). I said AT LEAST, as arkane has said we already have bullets that travel 3 times the speed of sound, it is incredibly likely minmatar projectiles travel faster. I am aware light is effected by gravity, however the gravity required, is so much ONLY black holes have been known to generate enough gravity to do so, black holes by the way have a potentially unlimited mass and actually create a tear in the 4th dimension space/time. Gravity doesn't really get involved with light or photons until you start looking at quantum physics, which you or I can't directly observe. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2864	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:37:00 - [5] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Cat Merc wrote: The "superior FPS killz" part of you might think that hit scan is for "scrubs" and stuff, but there's no point to put physics where it's not needed. I say keep non hit scan to the minimum, to keep server load down to allow for larger battles. I am not making any argument based on "skillz" let's leave that on the console forums please. I'm arguing based on immersion. Well you said hit scan is a crutch. So... Anyway, it would actually not be immersive, since I know the velocities are so huge for anything other than a few weapons that if I can even feel a hint of bullet drop, then it's immersion breaking. Plasma Rifles, Rail Rifles, Scrambler Rifles all use technologies that have projectiles moving at absurdly fast speeds. (Or in the case of the scrambler rifle, energy in the form of light and heat) A programming crutch, not an end user crutch. SOrry, I guess I should have been more precise in my wording, Also Cat, please read through the rest of the posts it isn't just about projectile drop. Except richoet can easily be calculated from a hitscan, there are multiple simple physics formulas that allow you to project richoet both against a large mirror like target (wall) or even 2 objects of similar dimensions and mass. If you look at dust.thang you will notice the rifles already have arbitrary muzzle velocity values, place these in the formula with a couple of dynamically found angles etc and you get richoet from a hit scan, infact you could even program a function to recursively call a hit scan if you want to slow the bullet down, and it'll still be less work than actually rendering a projectile and applying ballistics calculations to it. Hitscans are used for a reason, not just because the devs couldn't be bothered. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2864	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:42:00 - [6] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Question for the people saying hitscan doesnt matter... Do you think if they changed the railgun and the forge gun to hitscan it would matter? Not nearly as much as you are implying. Both Railguns and do not suffer any form of bullet drop, even travel time is near instantaneous, the only visible difference to your or I is that the slugs would no longer appear to continue accelerating after leaving the barrel. In terms of gameplay, hit detection, it would be neligible difference, against anything but dropships Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!