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Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
215
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Posted - 2014.05.14 19:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is New Eden. It has been stated that the weapons that we use are downright heinous in what they can do to the human body.
Theoretically....
The Plasma Rifle should melt holes through armor/people The Scrambler Rifle should melt holes through armor/people and if shot in the head, leave a gaping hole there The Combat Rifle should leave armor/people riddled with bullet holes The Shotgun should leave molten and charred bits of person around The Forge Gun should obliterate a person hands down The Laser Rifle should melt through armor/people and/or cut mercs in half The Sniper Rifle should leave gaping holes
Etc Etc
Basically the Legion New Eden universe would feel more immerse if you were running around and seeing the dead mercs half melted, or charred, or riddled with holes etc etc, it would remind us all of just how powerful are weapons really are, and that we aren't just playing with future M16's (except for the Combat Rifles).
Aisha Ctarl if you didn't know
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1495
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 19:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
The problem is that you die the moment your dropsuit is breached by a weapon. You don't have health. You have shield hit points and armor hit points. If you show any blood from anything other than a lethal hit, it would basically be saying "we just made that **** up to placate you guys, lol".
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens Final Resolution.
1842
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Posted - 2014.05.14 19:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Amarr have a trap that spins at hypersonic speed that shoots out a 5 meter long monofilament wire that cuts people into pieces. It is in one of the books; maybe Templar 1.
Here is the problem. I can give huge details on that or the Normandy Beach landing of people pulling in their guts or fingers getting torn off my bullets and it isn't that big of a deal. It is grotesque but it is PG. Listen to Jaws and Quinn talk about him being in the water with the sharks. It is truly terrifying stuff. If you were to film that scene, instant R rating. That's the problem with showing it. CCP has the game made in such a way that it is rated T.
Same as EVE.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4071
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Posted - 2014.05.14 19:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:The problem is that you die the moment your dropsuit is breached by a weapon. You don't have health. You have shield hit points and armor hit points. If you show any blood from anything other than a lethal hit, it would basically be saying "we just made that **** up to placate you guys, lol".
Not sure I understand the point.
Are you saying physical abuse from a weapon shouldn't happen after the moment of death has occurred? Because that doesn't make much sense. A weapon continues to fire into a corpse after the corpse is, in fact, a corpse. A fully automatic weapon user doesn't typically stop at the very last shot that killed someone.
If a mass driver round was strong enough to penetrate the remains of a persons armor and kill them, odds are it was also powerful enough to take off a limb or two. |
Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 19:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The Amarr have a trap that spins at hypersonic speed that shoots out a 5 meter long monofilament wire that cuts people into pieces. It is in one of the books; maybe Templar 1.
Here is the problem. I can give huge details on that or the Normandy Beach landing of people pulling in their guts or fingers getting torn off my bullets and it isn't that big of a deal. It is grotesque but it is PG. Listen to Jaws and Quinn talk about him being in the water with the sharks. It is truly terrifying stuff. If you were to film that scene, instant R rating. That's the problem with showing it. CCP has the game made in such a way that it is rated T.
Same as EVE.
Templar One, Flayer Mines.
EDIT
@Ulysses - you actually have 10 HP of body health (structure HP) I believe, that's why you can still be alive at 0/0.
Aisha Ctarl if you didn't know
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1499
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Posted - 2014.05.14 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:The problem is that you die the moment your dropsuit is breached by a weapon. You don't have health. You have shield hit points and armor hit points. If you show any blood from anything other than a lethal hit, it would basically be saying "we just made that **** up to placate you guys, lol". Not sure I understand the point. Are you saying physical abuse from a weapon shouldn't happen after the moment of death has occurred? Because that doesn't make much sense. A weapon continues to fire into a corpse after the corpse is, in fact, a corpse. A fully automatic weapon user doesn't typically stop at the very last shot that killed someone. If a mass driver round was strong enough to penetrate the remains of a persons armor and kill them, odds are it was also powerful enough to take off a limb or two. If I hit a person with a Sniper Rifle twice and I leave no visible wounds, and then I hit them a third time and leave a giant hole in their chest, that just doesn't make much sense. The only two alternatives would be to have the previous shots leave wounds (which violates the precedent set by the game itself) or have the lethal wound not be very graphic.
Secondly, if the wounds really are that bad, they shouldn't be able to be revived, which they usually can be unless they were killed via headshot or very powerful weapon.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1499
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 19:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ziiro Celeste wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The Amarr have a trap that spins at hypersonic speed that shoots out a 5 meter long monofilament wire that cuts people into pieces. It is in one of the books; maybe Templar 1.
Here is the problem. I can give huge details on that or the Normandy Beach landing of people pulling in their guts or fingers getting torn off my bullets and it isn't that big of a deal. It is grotesque but it is PG. Listen to Jaws and Quinn talk about him being in the water with the sharks. It is truly terrifying stuff. If you were to film that scene, instant R rating. That's the problem with showing it. CCP has the game made in such a way that it is rated T.
Same as EVE. Templar One, Flayer Mines. EDIT @Ulysses - you actually have 10 HP of body health (structure HP) I believe, that's why you can still be alive at 0/0. That's false. The reason you can be alive at 0/0 is because your HP is actually not a whole number and the display rounds it down to 0, but the engine does not. Thus you're alive at (seemingly) 0 HP.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4072
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Posted - 2014.05.14 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:The problem is that you die the moment your dropsuit is breached by a weapon. You don't have health. You have shield hit points and armor hit points. If you show any blood from anything other than a lethal hit, it would basically be saying "we just made that **** up to placate you guys, lol". Not sure I understand the point. Are you saying physical abuse from a weapon shouldn't happen after the moment of death has occurred? Because that doesn't make much sense. A weapon continues to fire into a corpse after the corpse is, in fact, a corpse. A fully automatic weapon user doesn't typically stop at the very last shot that killed someone. If a mass driver round was strong enough to penetrate the remains of a persons armor and kill them, odds are it was also powerful enough to take off a limb or two. If I hit a person with a Sniper Rifle twice and I leave no visible wounds, and then I hit them a third time and leave a giant hole in their chest, that just doesn't make much sense. The only two alternatives would be to have the previous shots leave wounds (which violates the precedent set by the game itself) or have the lethal wound not be very graphic. Secondly, if the wounds really are that bad, they shouldn't be able to be revived, which they usually can be unless they were killed via headshot or very powerful weapon.
It makes perfect sense. The first shot had its shock absorbed primarily by the shields, and the structural integrity of the physical armor. The second shot was again, absorbed by the structural integrity of the armor and the nanites flowing through it, although nearly depleting them and bringing it to a much weakened state. The armors integrity on the third shot was too weakened to fully absorb the impact and therefore shattered before the nanites could repair that integrity. This allowed the round to pass through the armor and cause lethal damage. |
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1503
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:The problem is that you die the moment your dropsuit is breached by a weapon. You don't have health. You have shield hit points and armor hit points. If you show any blood from anything other than a lethal hit, it would basically be saying "we just made that **** up to placate you guys, lol". Not sure I understand the point. Are you saying physical abuse from a weapon shouldn't happen after the moment of death has occurred? Because that doesn't make much sense. A weapon continues to fire into a corpse after the corpse is, in fact, a corpse. A fully automatic weapon user doesn't typically stop at the very last shot that killed someone. If a mass driver round was strong enough to penetrate the remains of a persons armor and kill them, odds are it was also powerful enough to take off a limb or two. If I hit a person with a Sniper Rifle twice and I leave no visible wounds, and then I hit them a third time and leave a giant hole in their chest, that just doesn't make much sense. The only two alternatives would be to have the previous shots leave wounds (which violates the precedent set by the game itself) or have the lethal wound not be very graphic. Secondly, if the wounds really are that bad, they shouldn't be able to be revived, which they usually can be unless they were killed via headshot or very powerful weapon. It makes perfect sense. The first shot had its shock absorbed primarily by the shields, and the structural integrity of the physical armor. The second shot was again, absorbed by the structural integrity of the armor and the nanites flowing through it, although nearly depleting them and bringing it to a much weakened state. The armors integrity on the third shot was too weakened to fully absorb the impact and therefore shattered before the nanites could repair that integrity. This allowed the round to pass through the armor and cause lethal damage. You're just trying to justify gory wounds, even though there's no reason for them to be gory.
Any wounds that do exist should be small and barely noticeable, unless it was a lethal wound that you couldn't be revived from. Going from no wounds to massive wounds is very jarring, and it will destroy your suspension of disbelief.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4073
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your argument basically just came down to "I don't like gore, please don't have it in the game".
That's a fine opinion to have, but you could have just said that in the first place. You were the one who started the debate over the lore. |
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1503
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Your argument basically just came down to "I don't like gore, please don't have it in the game". Bollocks. I never said that.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Ender Storm
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
129
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like the idea of gore and damage being shown.
If CCP wants to keep the "T" rating, they can do like Total War and offer the Gore as a paid for DLC (for a simbolic price)... thats how they fooled the rating system.
I love when i am headshoted and i can see my brain mater in Blacklight. |
Samael Artico
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
105
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am burning you with a laser rifle.
You are taking shield damage. You are glowing blue.
I am burning you with a laser rifle.
You are taking armor damage. Not much is happening.
I am burning you with a laser rifle.
Suddenly, your body and dropsuit split cleanly into two pieces.
I am left wondering what just happened.
Do you see a problem with this scenario? |
Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
216
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Samael Artico wrote:I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking shield damage. You are glowing blue. I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking armor damage. Not much is happening. I am burning you with a laser rifle. Suddenly, your body and dropsuit split cleanly into two pieces. I am left wondering what just happened.
Do you see a problem with this scenario?
The shield is attempting to deflect the laser, the armor is slowly ablated be the laser, the laser finally finds a weak point then splits the merc in two.
There are videos on YT showing lasers first ablating metal and then over time suddenly cutting it, it isn't cut in two lightsaber stuff....
Aisha Ctarl if you didn't know
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Hawk-eye Occultus
ARKOMBlNE
199
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
You can have Al Gore.
Shofixti beats an Ur-Quan Dreadnought and a Kor-Ah Marauder.
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Samael Artico
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ziiro Celeste wrote:Samael Artico wrote:I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking shield damage. You are glowing blue. I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking armor damage. Not much is happening. I am burning you with a laser rifle. Suddenly, your body and dropsuit split cleanly into two pieces. I am left wondering what just happened.
Do you see a problem with this scenario? The shield is attempting to deflect the laser, the armor is slowly ablated be the laser, the laser finally finds a weak point then splits the merc in two. There are videos on YT showing lasers first ablating metal and then over time suddenly cutting it, it isn't cut in two lightsaber stuff.... Uh huh, right.
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:The Laser Rifle should melt through armor/people and/or cut mercs in half That's not what the OP said.
Are you honestly not seeing a problem? You go from taking no visible damage to having a freaking hole in you from a continuously-fired laser. That's like being on fire and not being burned, and then suddenly turning into a pile of ash. |
Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2264
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
The CR should have exploding bullets............
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2264
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Ziiro Celeste wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The Amarr have a trap that spins at hypersonic speed that shoots out a 5 meter long monofilament wire that cuts people into pieces. It is in one of the books; maybe Templar 1.
Here is the problem. I can give huge details on that or the Normandy Beach landing of people pulling in their guts or fingers getting torn off my bullets and it isn't that big of a deal. It is grotesque but it is PG. Listen to Jaws and Quinn talk about him being in the water with the sharks. It is truly terrifying stuff. If you were to film that scene, instant R rating. That's the problem with showing it. CCP has the game made in such a way that it is rated T.
Same as EVE. Templar One, Flayer Mines. EDIT @Ulysses - you actually have 10 HP of body health (structure HP) I believe, that's why you can still be alive at 0/0. That's false. The reason you can be alive at 0/0 is because your HP is actually not a whole number and the display rounds it down to 0, but the engine does not. Thus you're alive at (seemingly) 0 HP.
It has been confirmed multiple times by devs that there is a 10 HP for body HP.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
|
Ender Storm
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
130
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Samael Artico wrote:Ziiro Celeste wrote:Samael Artico wrote:I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking shield damage. You are glowing blue. I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking armor damage. Not much is happening. I am burning you with a laser rifle. Suddenly, your body and dropsuit split cleanly into two pieces. I am left wondering what just happened.
Do you see a problem with this scenario? The shield is attempting to deflect the laser, the armor is slowly ablated be the laser, the laser finally finds a weak point then splits the merc in two. There are videos on YT showing lasers first ablating metal and then over time suddenly cutting it, it isn't cut in two lightsaber stuff.... Uh huh, right. Himiko Kuronaga wrote:The Laser Rifle should melt through armor/people and/or cut mercs in half That's not what the OP said. Are you honestly not seeing a problem? You go from taking no visible damage to having a freaking hole in you from a continuously-fired laser. That's like being on fire and not being burned, and then suddenly turning into a pile of ash.
I dont see a problem.
As long as you are tanking the damage the laser is being kept at bay.
The moment your suit fails, the laser comes thru and due its powerful charge does imediate sushi. |
Negris Albedo
Nuevo Atlas Corporation
56
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
We don't need gore. Gore would be detrimental. And jarring.
We should at least have visible armor damage before we have gore. |
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Samael Artico
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
109
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:Samael Artico wrote:Ziiro Celeste wrote:Samael Artico wrote:I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking shield damage. You are glowing blue. I am burning you with a laser rifle. You are taking armor damage. Not much is happening. I am burning you with a laser rifle. Suddenly, your body and dropsuit split cleanly into two pieces. I am left wondering what just happened.
Do you see a problem with this scenario? The shield is attempting to deflect the laser, the armor is slowly ablated be the laser, the laser finally finds a weak point then splits the merc in two. There are videos on YT showing lasers first ablating metal and then over time suddenly cutting it, it isn't cut in two lightsaber stuff.... Uh huh, right. Himiko Kuronaga wrote:The Laser Rifle should melt through armor/people and/or cut mercs in half That's not what the OP said. Are you honestly not seeing a problem? You go from taking no visible damage to having a freaking hole in you from a continuously-fired laser. That's like being on fire and not being burned, and then suddenly turning into a pile of ash. I dont see a problem. As long as you are tanking the damage the laser is being kept at bay. The moment your suit fails, the laser comes thru and due its powerful charge does imediate sushi. So the laser goes from barely doing any damage to a single layer of armor at a single point, to cutting through two layers of armor, with a pile of flesh in between them, at multiple points, therefore causing the dropsuit to spontaneously split apart? Which, furthermore, would mean that you wouldn't be able to be revived without looking incredibly stupid?
That seems logical. /sarcasm |
McFurious
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
774
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
I was going to suggest that suit damage could be possible in the game.
Taking armor damage means damage to the suit itself. So perhaps sparks could be shown or pieces missing from the suit or dents and scorch marks.
Half Irish. Often angry.
Grizzled Masshole Closed Beta Vet
PC > Console
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1512
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP should avoid this at all costs.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Ziiro Celeste
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
217
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
@Sameal
You haven't read Templar One clearly, the Nanite injector injects NANITES that can repair just about anything from shattered bone to internal bleeding.
Aisha Ctarl if you didn't know
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Samael Artico
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
109
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Posted - 2014.05.14 20:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ziiro Celeste wrote:@Sameal
You haven't read Templar One clearly, the Nanite injector injects NANITES that can repair just about anything from shattered bone to internal bleeding. It won't reconnect a severed body, though. |
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
795
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 20:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'd have no problem with visible dropsuit damage and dismemberment -- (in the case of immediate clone terminations via Forge gun, Sniper headshot and other non-revivable death scenarios) .
When I blap somebody with my forge gun, they should more or less get vaporized. If I land a cooked grenade at your feet, your legs should be little more than stumps.
However, I would urge against significant use of blood in dismemberment scenarios. It just does not seem fitting for this game, from an aesthetics point of view.
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