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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4039
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you've had any experience dealing with GM's in the past, you know they don't work as fast as you'd like them to.
If you've had any experience dealing with hackers in the past, you know they can do hilariously broken things in first person shooters with relative ease.
And if you've had any experience with hackers in free-to-play games, you know that account banishment is an absolute joke when it comes to deterring said hackers. Persistence and equipment usage is largely worthless if you can kill everyone on the map instantly with the single press of a button.
So obviously, this formula does not look very good for Legion. It is fairly likely the game will be absolutely ruined by this on a pub level because the GM's simply cannot keep up with an enemy that suffers no consequences any time action is taken against them.
Might I ask what kind of counter-measures CCP intends on running to reduce this problem? Because it will be a problem, and has the potential of being a game-killing problem. |
Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
529
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP has done quite well keeping hackers out of EvE. Hopefully they can replicate the success in Legion
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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Nstomper
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
570
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dauth Jenkins wrote:CCP has done quite well keeping hackers out of EvE. Hopefully they can replicate the success in Legion
EVE isn't a fps, person with my real last name.
Side note i hope to see this hack in legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOgPqNL8sy4
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Ender Storm
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
117
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Posted - 2014.05.13 20:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
I personally have not seen hackers latelly in the PC games I play. There might be some, but they do not seem abundant.
I have been playing Blacklight, War Thunder and Red Orchestra 2, and EVE of course, and have yet to see someone cheating.
But, indeed, there must be measures to prevent them, ranging from software architecture to active tools for cheat detection.
CCP has experience with these things, detection methods and stuff.
So I expect the game will be at least a home brew detector.
GM's are active as well over claims in EVE.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8539
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Posted - 2014.05.13 20:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP does have literally eleven years experience in dealing with hackers and bit users trying to cheat their way through the Eve server. So far the server has never been hacked (key words being so far). And if they see someone is trying, they will literally grab the power cord and yank it from the power outlet without a moment of hesitation. CCP established they are not afraid to do that as proven during the several-month blackout when Sony, CCP, and the developers of WoT and LoL got DDosed years ago.
They always find ways of tracking down cheaters and locking out even their IP addresses.
But even then, we all know none of these measures will ever deter a cheater from trying again and again. Its a never ending battle you and I have to accept as reality. The most we can do is just slow them down.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1410
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Posted - 2014.05.13 20:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree with the OP that Legion will be much harder to police for this than Eve.
There's only so much advantage you can get with hacks in "spreadsheets in space" when it comes to PvP. A bot can't target the primary and hit F1 any more effectively than a person. Eve's problem is with bots that automate tedious tasks.
Eve's also got the advantage of being subscription based, so a ban has more of an effect than in a free-to-play game.
I'm not convinced CCP have anything in their current arsenal to combat aimbots and wallhacks on throwaway accounts through anonymising proxies.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4043
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Posted - 2014.05.13 21:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
You don't need to hack the server to cheat, is the thing. FPS hacks are so easy to do because most of the advantages a player can seek are operated completely on the client side without manipulating outgoing data.
For example, an aimbot can exist outside of the programming of the client. It can simply look for recognizable moving objects within a 3d space and force your mouse to center onto it.
Another thing a hacker can do is stop your graphic card from rendering certain textures over a specific size, which results in invisible walls that a person can see through. This is a very easy hack that usually goes uncontested and unnoticed, but gives a major advantage to bad players and an incredible advantage to good ones. |
Ceerix MKII
Arrogance.
Caps and Mercs
77
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is one reason that I hope they charge 10$ for the game. Cheap for a one time payment but keeps someone from making 20 accounts then burning through them in a weekend using hacks just for the "lulz".
PC Gamer has an interesting article that's worth the read.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/30/hacks-an-investigation-into-aimbot-dealers-wallhack-users-and-the-million-dollar-business-of-video-game-cheating/ |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9636
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Posted - 2014.05.13 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
So if you want to play again, better replace that CPU, which is a costly idea, and a hassle.
I think this might work, if CCP has the expertise to pull it off.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2986
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Posted - 2014.05.13 23:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
Sounds like ValvesGÇÖ is trying to tell us that Half-Life 3 is coming out...
Gÿ£Gÿ¡GÿP Who Is Test Alliance? Gÿ£Gÿ¡GÿP
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8544
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Posted - 2014.05.14 00:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
So if you want to play again, better replace that CPU, which is a costly idea, and a hassle.
I think this might work, if CCP has the expertise to pull it off.
As long as it's only telling the CPU to not process anything related to game, I can see this working big time against the cheaters without catching fire from the lawyers.
If CCP can implement something like this that does a CPU-wide ban (essentially a hardware ban) then this can greatly discourage any cheater. Of course, like any cheater, they will likely petition the ban under the pretense that they were not cheaters. It's like a liar trying to convince the judge he's not a liar.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CCP Saberwing
C C P
C C P Alliance
4576
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Posted - 2014.05.14 02:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
We're totally aware of the security issues that come with being an F2P FPS. I've been poking CCP Rouge about it every so often.
CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian
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Kane Fyea
2736
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Posted - 2014.05.14 03:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
So if you want to play again, better replace that CPU, which is a costly idea, and a hassle.
I think this might work, if CCP has the expertise to pull it off. As long as it's only telling the CPU to not process anything related to game, I can see this working big time against the cheaters without catching fire from the lawyers. If CCP can implement something like this that does a CPU-wide ban (essentially a hardware ban) then this can greatly discourage any cheater. Of course, like any cheater, they will likely petition the ban under the pretense that they were not cheaters. It's like a liar trying to convince the judge he's not a liar.
Valve is barely starting to try this so I doubt CCP will be able to do it unless valve releases the method which I doubt they will. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
750
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Posted - 2014.05.14 03:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
I can see more leeway given to accounts that have skin in the game (i.e. have ever paid money).
TF2 has a similar concept.
Dust/Eve transfers
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9645
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Posted - 2014.05.14 04:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
So if you want to play again, better replace that CPU, which is a costly idea, and a hassle.
I think this might work, if CCP has the expertise to pull it off. As long as it's only telling the CPU to not process anything related to game, I can see this working big time against the cheaters without catching fire from the lawyers. If CCP can implement something like this that does a CPU-wide ban (essentially a hardware ban) then this can greatly discourage any cheater. Of course, like any cheater, they will likely petition the ban under the pretense that they were not cheaters. It's like a liar trying to convince the judge he's not a liar. Valve is barely starting to try this so I doubt CCP will be able to do it unless valve releases the method which I doubt they will.
It's just technology.
Valve didn't really pursue it since cheating isn't that big of an issue in TF2.
It was when it first became F2P, but over time server owners did their thing as well as VAC bans and slowly the cheating population eroded to a minimum.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
Zero-Day
215
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Posted - 2014.05.14 04:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Valve said something about a technology that allows them to tie bans to the CPU.
So if you want to play again, better replace that CPU, which is a costly idea, and a hassle.
I think this might work, if CCP has the expertise to pull it off. As long as it's only telling the CPU to not process anything related to game, I can see this working big time against the cheaters without catching fire from the lawyers. If CCP can implement something like this that does a CPU-wide ban (essentially a hardware ban) then this can greatly discourage any cheater. Of course, like any cheater, they will likely petition the ban under the pretense that they were not cheaters. It's like a liar trying to convince the judge he's not a liar. Valve is barely starting to try this so I doubt CCP will be able to do it unless valve releases the method which I doubt they will.
Valve is rather cool about things to be honest though. So while they might not release the method, they might protect all games that go through the steam client and few people would risk a well established steam account just to hack a game some or be a bit of a pain in the ass.
Beyond talking about steam/valve though, for Dust to be protected the first thing that needs to happen is to make account creation take least do an e-mail verification, along with a are you human verification, then follow it up with if possible only allowing e-mail accounts that have signed up for the newsletter and received a newsletter, which will be received upon signing up for it. By making the account creation take a bit of time fewer people will in turn cheat from the get go using bots, since you can't just auto create the accounts if you have to wait for a newletter verification as well. It might seem redundant but extra steps are worth it.
For in game monitoring, always keep tabs upon the leader boards, and if a sudden disruption happens, like with most cheaters hit them immediately, also watch for which people are getting resources to constantly all the time, especially early on when Legion is put out, since typically botters love to go after the pve where gms just don't watch, especially at boss areas, reference Skyrim, Aion, WoW. Also always have an easy reporting system within the game for players to easily block and report players and give common references when they report such as "gold seller". That and monitoring IPS to make sure no one is stealing characters or selling them off.
For anti cheat programs, plenty of them exsist out there, but CCP would probably be best making their own eventually, however, if they need to they can use an exsisting technology until they are up to speed. Many of the FPS games out there use common place anti cheat software, so it will keep out the common hacker but not one more sophisticated. In the end though, for anti cheating to work best it has to be a developr and community based effort, where the devs make sure to cut out glitches and other loop holes as soon as possible....which still needs to be worked on. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2876
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Posted - 2014.05.14 04:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Biggest thing they need to do is figure out a permanent way of banning hackers. Either via credit card ban or motherboard ban or something of that nature. Hackers always get caught eventually, its making them really have to pay for it that keeps people deterred from it.
IP address banning is pretty much irrelevant, it needs to be much deeper than just an IP ban.
Also, onestrike policy imo... hack once and you're done. Maybe a two strike policy if they absolutely have to, but I strongly believe in zero tolerance for hacking myself. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9645
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Posted - 2014.05.14 05:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Biggest thing they need to do is figure out a permanent way of banning hackers. Either via credit card ban or motherboard ban or something of that nature. Hackers always get caught eventually, its making them really have to pay for it that keeps people deterred from it.
IP address banning is pretty much irrelevant, it needs to be much deeper than just an IP ban.
Also, onestrike policy imo... hack once and you're done. Maybe a two strike policy if they absolutely have to, but I strongly believe in zero tolerance for hacking myself.
I would say two strikes.
Some software can be considered a cheat without you knowing about it.
I once downloaded CS 1.5 weapon skins for CS 1.6, but it apparently touched some files Valve didn't like and I got VAC banned.
Valve did not care when I explained my situation.
Luckily this account only had CS 1.6 and CS Source, so I didn't lose too much.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4056
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Posted - 2014.05.14 05:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Let's be honest here, if there was a guaranteed two strike policy just about every competitive corporation out there would have members attempt to hack at least once during crucial engagements. People wouldn't talk about it, but they would do it.
It needs to be one strike and you're done. |
Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2014.05.14 06:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Just hope there's a single player mode. It worked out pretty good for Metroid Prime Hunters, where every game you launched into online was guaranteed to have hackers.
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