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Hammerhead LandSharkX
Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi
8
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Posted - 2014.05.12 18:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
TLDR: Keep and iterate on the current skill tree/sp system and integrate CCP Z's progression as a certificates system mimicking EVE online.
So I think I understand and see the merit in CCP Z's progression system-but I also like the the current one.
I'm of the opinion that any system designs within dust/legion should look to mirror those within eve online. So what makes the most sense to me is that the current skill book/tree system carries over and CCP Z's progression system be rebranded/reworked/retooled to be legion's equivalent to eve online's certificate system. It seems a natural fit for a certificate system and allows for both the current skill system and CCP Z's progression to coexist. Thus allowing an easier transition from dust to legion for current players, making it feel much more familiar for eve players, and allowing the 'new progression' certificate system to be the accessible guide for new players in legion.
If Z's progression was a certificate system that guided players through the skill tree, you could easily build 'accessible' game features around that while leaving the freedom of something like the current skill tree for more advanced players to play with.
'Accessible game features' that come to mind:
an achievement system that would translate well with steam/PSN/xbox live.
a tutorial or intro that used early certificates to teach people how to build a role, use the skill tree, etc. very early in the game
This system could also give possible rewards in game for completing certificates establishing built in encouragement for players to train in dev defined roles and follow skill guidelines. (rewards like custom skins, titles, isk, etc.)
a certificate system would be a good tool for vet players to teach new ones how to train without having to guide them each step of the way "just get this certificate" and they now know a whole list of skills to train into. one of the things i liked most that I heard from CCP Z in one of the fanfest vids was mention of the end battle screen displaying your progress through whatever 'role' you were currently building-this could be translated into what certificate you had chosen showing related skills and progress towards achieving it.
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Caps and Mercs
460
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Greetings Soldier.
New Eden provides several challenges for those bold enough to try them, and for this you-Šll require different tools for different jobs.
[Pops up screen with Aura]
Would you like me to process your skills in a certain role?
- Yes [Recommended]
- No [Veterans only]
***
If the person is looking for the "roles" that CCP Z mentioned, they let Aura fill the blanks for them, and every mission and every XP earned goes to the set of skills of that role, in an order that would be the default role specifications.
If the person is not interested in role, they simply accumulate the points and spend them however they like (I want a glass cannon scout with a heavy machine gun? No problem, i-Šll stick as many power modules as i want and will fit it!) (Remember the Citadel Torpedo Launcher Abbadon?)
Main point is: If you want accessibility, go with an automated certificated system that manages the SP pool of the player that doesn-Št want to manage that, if you want to dumb things down, remove all micromanagment from veteran players like the plan currently appears to be.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2210
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:Greetings Soldier. New Eden provides several challenges for those bold enough to try them, and for this you-Šll require different tools for different jobs. [Pops up screen with Aura] Would you like me to process your skills in a certain role? - Yes [Recommended] - No [Veterans only] *** If the person is looking for the "roles" that CCP Z mentioned, they let Aura fill the blanks for them, and every mission and every XP earned goes to the set of skills of that role, in an order that would be the default role specifications. If the person is not interested in role, they simply accumulate the points and spend them however they like (I want a glass cannon scout with a heavy machine gun? No problem, i-Šll stick as many power modules as i want and will fit it!) ( Remember the Citadel Torpedo Launcher Abbadon?) Main point is: If you want accessibility, go with an automated certificated system that manages the SP pool of the player that doesn-Št want to manage that, if you want to dumb things down, remove all micromanagment from veteran players like the plan currently appears to be.
I talked to a couple CPM and told them exactly this.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Magpie Raven
ZionTCD
426
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Posted - 2014.05.12 19:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
This seems to me to be the best compromise. However I dont think SP should be automatically spent on anything. The Amateurs still need to learn how it all works. The certificate system should only be there to hold the players hand until they figure out how everything works and prevent them from makeing big mistakes. Once they know what skills mean and how they work and how bonuses work they should be able to turn off the help and take care of things themselves |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3375
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Posted - 2014.05.13 07:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marking this post for consideration in my index (currently under review of a few topics on the progression system)
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2622
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Posted - 2014.05.13 08:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Magpie Raven wrote:This seems to me to be the best compromise. However I dont think SP should be automatically spent on anything. The Amateurs still need to learn how it all works. The certificate system should only be there to hold the players hand until they figure out how everything works and prevent them from makeing big mistakes. Once they know what skills mean and how they work and how bonuses work they should be able to turn off the help and take care of things themselves
This.
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Hammerhead LandSharkX
Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi
12
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Posted - 2014.05.13 14:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Magpie Raven wrote:This seems to me to be the best compromise. However I dont think SP should be automatically spent on anything. The Amateurs still need to learn how it all works. The certificate system should only be there to hold the players hand until they figure out how everything works and prevent them from makeing big mistakes. Once they know what skills mean and how they work and how bonuses work they should be able to turn off the help and take care of things themselves
the way i imagine it is you either use the certificates to guide you or you don't...but the certificates still fill up as you spend your points and will always be there as a 'manual' guide.
You can use the certs to spend skills for you or show you how to spend them (pending on how skill points will work, if there's a 'skill que' or if it will literally spend them for you when you earn enough points). If they build it like eve and have basic/advanced/etc tiers for certifications-they could make it so it will only auto spend up to the basic level in whichever role to then force newbies to start manually spending (but still with the advanced+ cert trees as reference).
or
Those that don't need certificates to guide them will spend points on their own-but doing so will still earn them certificates anyways (pending on how they spend them) and possibly some nifty rewards/titles/skins/achievements for doing so.
So you can (and should) absolutely be able to 'turn off help' or ignore it entirely in the first place. Though If designed well it might give those that know what they're doing some things to shoot for once they've built themselves up the way they want-or at the very least give them some bonuses (cosmetic and the like) along the way. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2626
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Posted - 2014.05.13 14:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I just read up on ISIS. Its exactly what legion needs
Dont reinvent the wheels please.
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Hammerhead LandSharkX
Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi
12
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Posted - 2014.05.13 14:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I just read up on ISIS. Its exactly what legion needs
Dont reinvent the wheel please.
I kind of consider ISIS as an extension of the cert system-one that probably isn't necessary for legion until we have as many drop suits and vehicles as eve has ships (something I don't see happening). So i used the cert system (covering everything in the skill system rather than focusing on just suits or weapons or vehicles) to focus CCP Z's progression into something that could exist along side our current skills in dust. The visual representation I've seen in ISIS is definitely something i see applicable to this progression (cert) system in legion.
If there were plans to have suit and vehicle variety rivaling even a quarter of what eve online has in ships-then yes, i'd agree entirely that an ISIS equivalent would then be needed to represent the certificates. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2630
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Posted - 2014.05.13 19:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hammerhead LandSharkX wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:I just read up on ISIS. Its exactly what legion needs
Dont reinvent the wheel please. I kind of consider ISIS as an extension of the cert system-one that probably isn't necessary for legion until we have as many drop suits and vehicles as eve has ships (something I don't see happening). So i used the cert system (covering everything in the skill system rather than focusing on just suits or weapons or vehicles) to focus CCP Z's progression into something that could exist along side our current skills in dust. The visual representation I've seen in ISIS is definitely something i see applicable to this progression (cert) system in legion. If there were plans to have suit and vehicle variety rivaling even a quarter of what eve online has in ships-then yes, i'd agree entirely that an ISIS equivalent would then be needed to represent the certificates.
Why not aim big from the start? Then they dont have to revamp it 5 years down the road.
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Hammerhead LandSharkX
Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi
17
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Posted - 2014.05.15 01:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:
Why not aim big from the start? Then they dont have to revamp it 5 years down the road.
I think the cert system is all encompassing skill-wise, so i think I am aiming big. Adding certificates into legion is basically revamping the skill tree now and not 5 years later. I'm not saying it has to look exactly like the certs in eve do-they could make legion's certs 'look' and 'function' more like the ISIS ui and then some. So in essence I'm asking for EVE's certs and ISIS rolled into one thing for legion...called certificates. Since legions skill list is far less cluttered than EVE's I think they could make that work. |
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