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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.09 09:26:00 -
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Everyone knows there are a lot of issues with planetary conquest, the one I want to address primarily is the lockout timers, the ability for a district to be locked for an extensive period of time and remain immune to attacks.
Why are districtGÇÖs currently immune? Well we need a way to make it so the TeamA cant attack TeamB whilst they sleep. But this isn't very believable is it, because whatGÇÖs stopping you from attacking? The little countdown timerGǪ That also makes the district off limits until the little timer has gone away.
This idea will put an end to districts being inaccessible and hopefully give it a more fulfilling reason than a clock. But it will also make it that planets can be attacked whilst the, "lockout timer" in in effect.
Tower/Drone Defence!! PvE is coming to Legion which means AI is too, now what I'm suggesting it that instead of having the district simply being inaccessible for 23hours, have drones and towerGÇÖs defend it instead.
Now to keep in line with what I said about keeping this stuff believable, having drones defend your district for 23hours but not the 1hour window seems silly, I mean they don't just disappear! This is why I would introduce the overheat mechanic for Planetary Conquest.
Say the normal drone spawn(manufacturing) rate is 100%, the overheat mechanic would increase this to +200% for the 23hours that TeamB has set it to begin. In the extra 1hour window left, the cool down period, it would be =/-100%, leaving an opportunity for TeamA to attack. Worth noting that whilst the planet is in overheat the central command centre cannot be hacked by an MCC (the planetary command CPU while overheating is to powerful for the MCC's CPU). But the rest of the planet is still able to be 'toyed' with.
This mechanic could come with a bit of malleability, changing the amount of overheat to higher(more drones) or lower(less drones) to make the window of opportunity larger or smaller respectively. (See Industry Upgrades) (Not to sure about this one just yet as I feel like it pushes the little alliances down)
Upgrading districts. In EvE where you can upgrade systems, do more PvE in a system and you get a military upgrade to make more wormholes and PvE sites spawn, likewise for mining and itGÇÖs sites. And up the strategic and you get the ability to install better infrastructure. [A link here if you want more info on how itGÇÖs done EvE side]
IGÇÖd suggest that we do something similar here in Legion.
Strategic Upgrades (0/5)- An ISK Investment The ability to deploy different kinds of infrastructure, as well as the number. We know that CCP are going down the route where we have interchangeable sockets well what if those buildings where put there by the players?
Say a district has one large and 2 medium sockets the owner could choose what would fit into them, assuming that all districts are interconnected to form a planet wide network. (So you could have one district with a GÇ£space gunGÇ¥, and another with clone storage.)
We have planetary defence, cargo hubs etc etc. All of these buildings, how many and what type can be determined by the level of the Upgrade. Also more importantly, a large ISK sink for a large Alliance.
Military Upgrades (0/5)- A PvE Investment PvE, Player vs. Environment. ItGÇÖs finally coming with Legion and I believe could be integrated in with planetary conquest to give you more of a reason to do it.
As you start grinding PvE youGÇÖll be gaining loot and a small amount of experience towards getting a sovereignty upgrade. This will lead to bigger harder fights, more loot and more ISK payout. As well as the frequency of which the sites spawn at.
Industry Upgrades (0/5) Would directly affect drones and turrets/towers until more industry has been introduced later in Legion.
Industry would determine how fast your own defence system respawns and gets repaired. It would also tie into what infrastructure you can build (for example, better cargo hubs would require higher level industry upgrades (as well as the strategic upgrade requirement))
Again like earlier this would tie into the overheat mechanic, but it still needs some thought so as to not kick the little guy in the balls.
MajLagSpike
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Syeven Reed
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604
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Posted - 2014.05.09 09:26:00 -
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MajLagSpike
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Syeven Reed
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614
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Posted - 2014.05.10 23:06:00 -
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MajLagSpike
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.16 07:56:00 -
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Monkey MAC wrote:Nice Idea, so you can still attack and capture the district but it requires figjting through a whole army of drones, inventive. However your implementation still lacks 1 important factor: Reasons for the Gel-Breathers to careISK alone isn't an incentive for EvE players to get involved in holding land. Their needs to be a reason, unfortunately the expansion EvE:Colony will male this harder to achieve as EvE players aren't likely to be handing 'ownership battles' of these structures to Legion players. I can only hope that this idea for planetary conquest involved with EvE is considered and passed on to gel-breathers.
- Step 1: Triple the Districts per planet.
Currently there are only 10-15 districts per planet, this is too few for any kind of Corporation/Alliance to be intrested, it also makes Logistics far too easy.
By adding more districts a larger number of facilities can be created for more varied bonuses to EvE and Legion Plauers alike.
- Step 2: Basic Infrastructure
- Step 3: Legion centric installations
- Step 4: EvE centric installations
- Step 5: Overlapping Installations
Then you give corporations the option of more than just capturing or defendingmthe districts. Let them steal from Storage/Holding facilities, let them sabotage research facilities to take more resources, let them delay temporal wet-docks. Doing this turns Legion Districs into cold war weapons, entire arms races will be driven by holding Legion land, the abilty to have a Capital ship in 5 days instead of 7 is a massive advantage that will get Gel-Breathers attention, you can build entire fleets in days for a few more resources, we will become the prelude, involved in the middle and epilogue to war and it will be glorious.
I like what you've said about having a reason for capsuleers to care and a lot of the buildings are some good ideas which ill write down. Some though are unfortunately a bit far fetched and/won't work, for example I don't think CCP would include things like a Battle-dome when they would have corp contracts, and a temporal wet dock would be very hard to balance with our making it either not worth it or to OP.
I think your right In looking at a planet as another form of POS. an EvE player could have the ability to store there stuff on the ground, doubt they would trust us with expensive ****, but a place to store a bunch of minerals seems viable. The research facility is defiantly one that should be considered. It makes the most sense to me, all you do to research at the moment in eve would be to drop off some stuff with an agent and wait, well why can't you drop of at a planet instead?
Some good ideas, thanks for the reply.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.16 08:07:00 -
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137H4RGIC wrote:How do you intend to deal with preventing small corps from owning half the map because they have sixteen of their finest? ISK will be the main factor, only the larger corps will have enough money to pay for the upgrades needed to own half the planet. Another factor I've tried to implement is that a small corp would not be able to defend every district and installation at once, they would need to grow in numbers in order to grow in size.
Im thinking a small squad of 6 deployed per district, so if the small corp owned 6 districts, they would need 36 players to fight against the 30 players being deployed, their 16 would be stomped. But if that corporation took it slower, and they only had 3 districts, 18 would be the max the enemy could bring and they would need only 18 people to defend it.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.16 08:22:00 -
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Monkey MAC wrote:Syeven Reed wrote:
I like what you've said about having a reason for capsuleers to care and a lot of the buildings are some good ideas which ill write down. Some though are unfortunately a bit far fetched and/won't work, for example I don't think CCP would include things like a Battle-dome when they would have corp contracts, and a temporal wet dock would be very hard to balance with our making it either not worth it or to OP.
I think your right In looking at a planet as another form of POS. an EvE player could have the ability to store there stuff on the ground, doubt they would trust us with expensive ****, but a place to store a bunch of minerals seems viable. The research facility is defiantly one that should be considered. It makes the most sense to me, all you do to research at the moment in eve would be to drop off some stuff with an agent and wait, well why can't you drop of at a planet instead?
Some good ideas, thanks for the reply.
Fair enough, though you would be surprised how important the temporal docks become, currently large battles have little to no gear-up if Legion facilities allow you to get a larger fleet to the battle they then become the first tragets, no doubt they will be hard to balance, but if you aren't giving some rather powerful bonuses to the pilots, they just won't care enough to let let go of EvE:Colony, which is currently the reason PC operates in molden heath. Yeah we do need some tasty bonuses for pilots to stay around. What would you think to having warfare links planet side? Instead of needing an extra ship hanging about in space (doing nothing) the Mercs were given them instead. And it would provide a constant boosts to your corporation (not alliance). Depending on whether the EvE system is used for mining or PvE of just of strategic value. [imagine the battles dust side whilst something like this is going on]
I mean EvE players love what there doing NOW. So a good incentive would be to improve upon this aspect of their gameplay (whatever it is) But honestly Im not sure if EvE player would like something as delicate as this in the hands of us Mercs, but it would defiantly give a reason to want to hold a planet/large amount of districts.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.16 20:34:00 -
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Monkey MAC wrote:Hell yes, the thing is though if there is enough interest in Legion land, then you won't be dealing with single mercs or small p*ssy alliances, it'll all be overseen by the alliance, they will have one guy ground-side incharge of running legion operations.
Not to mention if they don't want to loose it then pilots can provide orbital support, creating more space battles everytime a district comes under attack. That's also true, but again the idea of this is to make it harder and harder for an alliance to be able to hold more districts than they have the man power to defend. Ideally what this strives to do is give a small amount of districts to many separate corporations. This way we have lots of fighting, lots of districts changing hands but no one/two alliances owning a monopoly.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.18 21:21:00 -
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137H4RGIC wrote:yeah we need a president offering us a 'newdeal' prohibiting monopoly... oh wait....
Eh?
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.18 21:34:00 -
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Godin Thekiller wrote:You seriously think that relying on AI to hold down the fort is a good idea? LOL By itself no. Keep in mind that I'm talking overwhelming numbers, depending on how you overheat (or at least vastly over powered AI) holding down the fort. And like I said the command centre CANNOT be hacked while on overheat. It will be impossible to loose anything.
This idea is there to provide an alternative to a defence of your planet while your players are asleep, which without any actual players awake defending a planet, yes AI will be needed.
Thanks for the constructive criticism.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.05.18 21:36:00 -
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Monkey MAC wrote:Syeven Reed wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Hell yes, the thing is though if there is enough interest in Legion land, then you won't be dealing with single mercs or small p*ssy alliances, it'll all be overseen by the alliance, they will have one guy ground-side incharge of running legion operations.
Not to mention if they don't want to loose it then pilots can provide orbital support, creating more space battles everytime a district comes under attack. That's also true, but again the idea of this is to make it harder and harder for an alliance to be able to hold more districts than they have the man power to defend. Ideally what this strives to do is give a small amount of districts to many separate corporations. This way we have lots of fighting, lots of districts changing hands but no one/two alliances owning a monopoly. Yes bu at the same time, just like in EvE there needs to be lots of land, such that holding say a planet or 2's worth of districts isn't uncommon. You can break the monopoly cycle if there is enough interest in holding the land, it needs to be something large alliances want to be involved in, yet have enough districts that the smaller corps with land aren't considered worth the effort for them. It needs to be like EvE your expansion is limted not by how much land there is but by the amount of resources you have at your disposal. Do agree that this will also be a major factor in keeping the big gus of the little persons back. For something like this to work (or any idea really) we would need a lot more space to colonise.
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Syeven Reed
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Posted - 2014.06.02 07:20:00 -
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Godin Thekiller wrote: They could just wait for the overheat to end to hack it. I'd say the command as well as 1-5 km around it is locked down, and the rest is okay.
Look, my problem is not that your system is good or not. My problem is that is it enough?
Thats the point of the system, once the overheat has ended you are able to hack it and take over, this cool down period is the time in which the districts owner needs to defend is themselves. But the drones that are created during the overheat are to overwhelming to enable you to get a foothold anywhere close to the main hub.
Also sorry for such a late reply, i like this discussion.
Also on a side note, I mentioned before in the OP how I would like to have it so you can choose how long the overheat lasts but ill elaborate a bit more here simply because I'm not to sure on the mechanic as a whole (but brainwave). If you overheat for longer, say 23hours(MAX) at 150%, the opposing team are able to gain a foothold closer to the main HUB because the forces won't be as severe as say, overheating for 12 hours at 200%.
On one side I think that this makes it hard for a small corp/alliance to hold anything, but at the same time it also makes it that the same small corp/alliance can't hold more than they have the numbers for.
Actually... I'm having a good rush of thoughts on how and why this may be balanced out so Im going to wright a large body of text under the OP.
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