DUST Search - What if districts were controlled by capsuleers?

TechMechMeds wrote:

Ahkhomi Cypher wrote:

Jonny D Buelle wrote:

Ahkhomi Cypher wrote:

Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game?
So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp.
Come on dude they already look down on us...

Games are the same, just different ways of playing. (EVE Online; EVE: Dust 514; EVE: Legion; EVE: Valkyrie, see the pattern?)

Also, I'm glad and grateful to listen to any advice a pilot would give me about New Eden. They can deal with the politics and the corp running better from their end (their Corp tab is more than just Description, Wallet, Members, Roles).

Yes some look down on us, but some of us actually deserve it. They mainly see us as a bunch of kids attempting to play at their game on the ground. And comments like yours and the whole 'OMG EVE IS GAY HERP DERP' as well as other stupid things I've heard Dusters say about Capsuleers make them think it even more!

And with legion being on PC now CCP can put those same corp controls into legion.
I like the idea of being interconnected I just dont think a major aspect of one game should be completely dependant on the other game.
The games should compliment each other but you should be able enjoy the whole of one game independent of the other.

They have a whole galaxy to integrate it in, why wouldn't they?. It'd be holonic if anything, hopefully.

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Csikszent Mihalyi Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 268	Posted - 2014.05.09 01:13:00 - [1] - Quote Just food for thought, please excuse me if this has already been discussed a lot. I'm also not active in PC, so I might get some things wrong. My interest in this is only on an abstract, game design level. Planetary Conquest never seemed very well thought out to me, because it's very one-dimensional: You are either strong enough to conquer districts, or you are not. There is no real sense of progression as far as I can tell. If you are a weak corp, there is little point in holding a district if any elite corp can then just choose you for easy pickings. So it just got me thinking, what if PC would work essentially the same as it does in DUST, with the only difference that all PC management is relegated to EVE corporations? This means it would be EVE corporations who own districts, reap the benefits, and plan attacks. The only extra step would be to organise a squad of mercs for the battle. This could either happen by contacting mercs directly or through a kind of public contract, where mercs can offer their services and the capsuleers get to pick the one they distrust the least. These contracts could involve a participation fee (paid out in case the battle happens) and a success bonus (paid out if the attack is a success, whether the battle happens or not). The defending EVE corp then gets a chance to organise mercs for the defense, same deal. Advantages of this approach would be: * Capsuleers would be far more invested in what happens on the ground, and have more of a reason to battle for orbitals. * Timezones would be handled more elegantly. E.g. if you attack a district by hiring australian mercs and set an australian timezone, the defense is also likely to hire australians for the defense. * It would create more organic tiering, where top squads would fight for contracts which pay out the most, and capsuleers would pay out the most for districts which are the most valuable. You can't directly attack the weakest mercs because you never know who the defense will hire. * It makes sense for Legion, because we are mercenaries, not conquerors. Scoring lucrative contracts seems to be more in character than organising total domination of the universe. * It would create much more dynamic relationships between mercs and capsuleers, as capsuleers would want good relationships with elite mercs to secure their services, and mercs would want good relationships with capsuleers to secure lucrative contracts. Bribes and backstabbing and all those other goodies from the EVE universe would certainly make an appearance. * All of these advantages would not require a massive redesign of the system, only moving some of the mechanics to the EVE client. This is not a pie-in-the-sky concept that is unlikely to work out in practice and it would retain the balanced competitive nature of PC with fixed number squads. Potential disadvantages would be: * It would of course require ISK flow between EVE and Legion which could be a challenge for the economy, but it's my understanding that this is what we want eventually anyway? * Since you have to schedule time to contract a squad for both attack and defense, the turnaround times for attacks on districts could become significantly higher, but that seems like a fair tradeoff to me. * In theory it could lead to the same situation where the most powerful EVE corp teams up with the most powerful mercs to lock down all of PC. But I do think that this would provide much more opportunity for enemies to organise themselves and provide a counter-weight, just like how it works out with nullsec sovereignty. * It's not the anything-goes sandboxy attrition warfare where you can overwhelm the opponent with sheer numbers, which some people seem to ask for. Personally I have my doubts that this would ever lead to satisfying gameplay mechanics though. It's one thing to have large-scale battles which grind to a halt in an MMORPG which is essentially a spreadsheet, but if the same happens with a real-time first person shooter, you are not going to have a good time. If there's ever a completely open sandbox, I think this needs to be limited to the PVE side of the game, rather than the competitive side of the game. The fanfest presentation of Legion indicated to me that this is the plan. * It would take away some mechanics from the Legion client. Again, I think that's a perfectly fair tradeoff for the benefits it would provide and it would also allow the Legion client to be more focused on it's strengths (the actual battles, and hopefully the PVE and player market aspects).
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 434	Posted - 2014.05.09 07:33:00 - [2] - Quote Pretty sure this was the whole point of EVE players getting planetary interaction. All those structures we fight in are suppose to be placed by capsuleers.
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC 669	Posted - 2014.05.09 07:35:00 - [3] - Quote The problem is what if this idea is placed in the game and it turns out to be like bounty system in EVE '#PCMasterRace
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14793	Posted - 2014.05.09 07:36:00 - [4] - Quote It would off load maintenance off the dusters letting them focus on killing each other. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Csikszent Mihalyi Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 270	Posted - 2014.05.09 08:36:00 - [5] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: The problem is what if this idea is placed in the game and it turns out to be like bounty system in EVE Not sure what you are alluding to (I haven't played much of EVE since the new bounty hunting system was introduced), but I'll make a guess and assume it's largely being ignored? I think getting capsuleers to care about PC would "just" require balancing the rewards you stand to gain from owning districts, so EVE corps have a strong enough motivation to invest money into it. In the end corps would be running the numbers, like "if we put that much ISK into conquering and defending the district, it will pay off after that many weeks of holding it", etc. It's pretty straight forward, so I don't see any major complications like the bounty system certainly has.
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 436	Posted - 2014.05.09 08:55:00 - [6] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: The problem is what if this idea is placed in the game and it turns out to be like bounty system in EVE In what way?
Your Absolut End The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad. 497	Posted - 2014.05.09 09:59:00 - [7] - Quote +1 thats the idea which was bhind Dust,+ñso lets finally implement this mechanic into Legion. Cant really see disadvantages with this, and i also think this will help tieing both games closer toegether.
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 59	Posted - 2014.05.09 10:04:00 - [8] - Quote I like this, lets us be Mercs again instead of trying to build an Empire... Let's leave that to the Capsuleers... For now Come Join the War
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3334	Posted - 2014.05.09 11:20:00 - [9] - Quote Yes. Capsuleers will be able to do more and much quicker. Eve Legion FTW!
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3334	Posted - 2014.05.09 11:24:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: It would off load maintenance off the dusters letting them focus on killing each other. So much win Iv been whining about the fact dusters have control for ages. It was just obvious before I even started eve that everything was completely backwards. One of my favourites was 'can we have sovereignty'. Eve Legion FTW!

TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3334	Posted - 2014.05.09 11:32:00 - [11] - Quote There's a lot that mercs can and should do but owning land is not one of them, we should get paid to fight for what resources etc that x planet/district has for x capsuleers etc. There is also the the chance we are underestimating the name EVE LEGION and need to start thinking bigger. I can't see huge alliances and corps wanting major disputes settled over a 16v16 scrimmage. So there will probably be different ways of operating rather than what we have in dust. Eve Legion FTW!
Ahkhomi Cypher Team Bad Decisions 34	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:15:00 - [12] - Quote Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us...
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3334	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:24:00 - [13] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... It will probably be way more complex than that. Forget how simple dust is. Eve Legion FTW!
Jonny D Buelle Mors Effera 63	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:32:00 - [14] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... Games are the same, just different ways of playing. (EVE Online; EVE: Dust 514; EVE: Legion; EVE: Valkyrie, see the pattern?) Also, I'm glad and grateful to listen to any advice a pilot would give me about New Eden. They can deal with the politics and the corp running better from their end (their Corp tab is more than just Description, Wallet, Members, Roles). Yes some look down on us, but some of us actually deserve it. They mainly see us as a bunch of kids attempting to play at their game on the ground. And comments like yours and the whole 'OMG EVE IS GAY HERP DERP' as well as other stupid things I've heard Dusters say about Capsuleers make them think it even more! Come Join the War
Ahkhomi Cypher Team Bad Decisions 34	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:52:00 - [15] - Quote Jonny D Buelle wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... Games are the same, just different ways of playing. (EVE Online; EVE: Dust 514; EVE: Legion; EVE: Valkyrie, see the pattern?) Also, I'm glad and grateful to listen to any advice a pilot would give me about New Eden. They can deal with the politics and the corp running better from their end (their Corp tab is more than just Description, Wallet, Members, Roles). Yes some look down on us, but some of us actually deserve it. They mainly see us as a bunch of kids attempting to play at their game on the ground. And comments like yours and the whole 'OMG EVE IS GAY HERP DERP' as well as other stupid things I've heard Dusters say about Capsuleers make them think it even more! And with legion being on PC now CCP can put those same corp controls into legion. I like the idea of being interconnected I just dont think a major aspect of one game should be completely dependant on the other game. The games should compliment each other but you should be able enjoy the whole of one game independent of the other.
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3334	Posted - 2014.05.09 12:54:00 - [16] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... Games are the same, just different ways of playing. (EVE Online; EVE: Dust 514; EVE: Legion; EVE: Valkyrie, see the pattern?) Also, I'm glad and grateful to listen to any advice a pilot would give me about New Eden. They can deal with the politics and the corp running better from their end (their Corp tab is more than just Description, Wallet, Members, Roles). Yes some look down on us, but some of us actually deserve it. They mainly see us as a bunch of kids attempting to play at their game on the ground. And comments like yours and the whole 'OMG EVE IS GAY HERP DERP' as well as other stupid things I've heard Dusters say about Capsuleers make them think it even more! And with legion being on PC now CCP can put those same corp controls into legion. I like the idea of being interconnected I just dont think a major aspect of one game should be completely dependant on the other game. The games should compliment each other but you should be able enjoy the whole of one game independent of the other. They have a whole galaxy to integrate it in, why wouldn't they?. It'd be holonic if anything, hopefully. Eve Legion FTW!
Ahkhomi Cypher Team Bad Decisions 34	Posted - 2014.05.09 13:22:00 - [17] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... Games are the same, just different ways of playing. (EVE Online; EVE: Dust 514; EVE: Legion; EVE: Valkyrie, see the pattern?) Also, I'm glad and grateful to listen to any advice a pilot would give me about New Eden. They can deal with the politics and the corp running better from their end (their Corp tab is more than just Description, Wallet, Members, Roles). Yes some look down on us, but some of us actually deserve it. They mainly see us as a bunch of kids attempting to play at their game on the ground. And comments like yours and the whole 'OMG EVE IS GAY HERP DERP' as well as other stupid things I've heard Dusters say about Capsuleers make them think it even more! And with legion being on PC now CCP can put those same corp controls into legion. I like the idea of being interconnected I just dont think a major aspect of one game should be completely dependant on the other game. The games should compliment each other but you should be able enjoy the whole of one game independent of the other. They have a whole galaxy to integrate it in, why wouldn't they?. It'd be holonic if anything, hopefully. KK, i guess so.
Csikszent Mihalyi Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 272	Posted - 2014.05.09 13:29:00 - [18] - Quote Ahkhomi Cypher wrote: Am i the only person that has a problem with some eve guy telling me what to do in my game? So because he has a spaceship in a different game he's gonna essentially be the leader of the corp. Come on dude they already look down on us... They are not the leader of the corp. Merc corps are still completely autonomous. Nobody can tell the mercs what to do, instead EVE corps have to offer lucrative contracts (or other incentives) to convince mercs to work for them. Mercs primary interest is not in capturing districts, but in securing lucrative contracts. Winning is only a means to an end to increase their reputation (and collect bonus payouts). It is entirely up to the mercs whether they decide to swear allegiance to an EVE corp or always sell their swords to the highest bidder. The point is that EVE corps won't be able to ignore mercs any longer, since they would depend on us to capture (or defend) their districts. Ultimately they pull the strings of the universe yes, but I don't have a problem with that. That's how I always pictured the EVE/DUST connection after all. EVE plans, Legion executes. One can't do without the other.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1391	Posted - 2014.05.09 14:51:00 - [19] - Quote I really don't think die-hard Dust/Legion players would take kindly to requiring support from another game to win theirs. Eve corps are Dust corps, and will be Legion corps. The only difference is that one game has a much better Corp management UI than the other, because its on a PC. I imagine that a lot of Legion's corp management UI would come from Eve, rather than Dust; regardless of whether it does, the planetary conquest UI would be designed to be used with KBM rather than controller. Quote: You are either strong enough to conquer districts, or you are not. If you are a big corp you should be able to win with numbers; if you are a small corp you should be able to win with skill. PC (or its replacement) should have a place for both. If you have neither skill nor numbers, you shouldn't expect to own territory. Have corps fight for control of planets, not individual districts, and control ownership of the planet means control of all (or most) of the districts. Some planets should have one or two districts, some should have lots. A small, highly skilled corp should be able to take and keep a planet with a single district, regardless of how many people are attacking them, because only 16 players can attack them at once. A large corp should be able to control a planet with 20 districts, regardless of the skill of the people attacking them, because they have the ability to field 320 players. Quote: we are mercenaries, not conquerors This was the vision of someone in CCP, who has probably since left. I never wanted to be a merc. A Minmatar freedom fighter, maybe. Or a foot-solider defending his home. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:34:00 - [20] - Quote No. Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot

Cymek Omnius Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:48:00 - [21] - Quote I think its best to have the two games interact with each other but not rely on each other.
Csikszent Mihalyi Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 274	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:51:00 - [22] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Have corps fight for control of planets, not individual districts, and control ownership of the planet means control of all (or most) of the districts. Some planets should have one or two districts, some should have lots. A small, highly skilled corp should be able to take and keep a planet with a single district, regardless of how many people are attacking them, because only 16 players can attack them at once. A large corp should be able to control a planet with 20 districts, regardless of the skill of the people attacking them, because they have the ability to field 320 players. That's interesting, but ultimately it's still just as one-dimensional. Either you are the strongest corp in your "size group", or a stronger contender can just come and gobble you up at any time. I guess it does give weaker mercs a chance to participate by filling up the numbers in a "win by numbers" corp, but it doesn't really allow new corps to gradually grow into it. And it won't scale forever, so eventually those large corps will be filled up as well and again limit the appeal of PC to a small percentage of the playerbase. Also what's the fun in winning by numbers if that means you win because your opponent can't even field enough players to compete? To me that sounds more like the kind of numbers game that has a place in EVE. For Legion I expect meaningful battles where outcomes are decided on the battlefield, not in the spreadsheet.


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