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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
998
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Posted - 2014.05.08 19:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Faced with the same choice that the CPM-0 had to make, would you:
A) Resign from the CPM, as Cazaderon did?
B) Stay in the CPM?
I think the answer to this question is important. I also think that refusing to answer can be considered an answer itself. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
998
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Posted - 2014.05.08 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
@Tech De Ra
Actually, no one ever voted for CPM-0. CPM-0 only had to answer to themselves and what they thought was the better way to defend the community's interests.
Soraya Xel wrote:B) No point in running for CPM if you're only going to be there for one tough issue. CCP is constantly doing stupid things, which is why the CPM has to be there constantly to help them be less dumb.
Thanks for your answer.
Appia Vibbia wrote:I would instead spam them with messages continually informing them how dumb they are, because even with the devs that I like, thye too need to know how stupid their coworkers are being and by association and not also telling them how dumb they are acting are equally to blame.
I take from you answer that you would also stay? If so, thanks for your answer.
The question stands. I'm still interested in what the other candidates have to say. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1001
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Posted - 2014.05.09 10:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tech De Ra wrote: Your question was aimed at CPM1, it was nothing to do with CPM0
My question starts with: "Faced with the same choice that the CPM-0 had to make,". I'm afraid it has everything to do with CPM0. Actually, without taking into account how CPM0 acted, there is no question at all.
However, I take note that you'd not quit either. Since I was asking this to CPM candidates, are you an alt of a CPM candidate or a current CPM, or just the alt of a regular player?
The Black Jackal wrote:I'd stay. There's a laundry list of reasons, from telling CCP how wrong they are prior to doing something like this (not that the action was inherently wrong, but their way of handling the entire thing was), and also for the fact that if CPM members start quitting at hard choices, why have a CPM at all?
Quitting undermines the CPM's current position, and undermines future CPMs. CCP wont go to CPM for anything meaningful if they get a reputation for quitting at difficult crossroads.
About your question "why have a CPM at all?", in my opinion, if the answer is not "to defend the community best interests", then it's better not to have one. They should protect us from the "greed is good" way of thinking, not act as if they are junior game designers.
But that's just my opinion. I thank you for your answer anyway, and I appreciate the candor you and the rest of the candidates have showed posting in this thread. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1004
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Choosing to continue to run after the announcement is an answer in itself, is it not?
Not really.
Resigning is another tool for a CPM. even if it is a last resort one. It is the only way you can express public disapproval without breaking the NDA. Someone could be running with the intention of not allowing something like that to happen again, and resign if he could not avoid it.
So far it seems to not be the case, but one can only hope.
@Tech De Ra
Since you were someone that had the intention to run for CPM, I appreciate you giving your input. Thank you. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1004
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Glad to hear other people thinking like we do. I am much less worried about CPM 1 now.
Thanks to the CPM-0, a lot less people worry about CPM-1, or any CPM at all. Great job.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1004
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Posted - 2014.05.09 18:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tech De Ra wrote:Flyingconejo wrote:Impact of the CPM on Dust? I hope that CCP never listened to them, so they can say 0. If CCP actually listened to them, very negative. Just look at the game. I'm starting to think your initial question was a little weighed against CPM0
The question is quite neutral. My own answer is not, and I thought that was pretty clear from the start.
Anyone that has followed my posts knows that for me, CPM 0 failed to defend the community. I've heard their reasons to act as they did, and while some of them make sense, I still feel that they should have all resigned like Caz did. The first duty of the CPM should be to the community they supposedly represent, not to CCP, and all of them resigning would have raised a flag which would have been very difficult to ignore.
If CCP chose to discontinue the CPM after them resigning, it would not have mattered much, since according to them they have all but been ignored their entire term. Better to have no CPM than an useless one.
But the question is sincere. To be honest, I see not many reasons that would help me chose one candidate over the other. The answers of each candidate, even when they don't agree with my point of view, will help me to decide. Even the fact that they are answering is a point in their favour.
I would also encourage the rest of the candidates to answer, because even if I dissagree with the CPM-0 decision, other readers of this thread might agree with it, so a candidate with the same point of view might get some support.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1004
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
@Tech De Ra
Resigning is the absolute last resort for a CPM. But I think it was called for in this case. The first and main reason for the CPM/CSM existing is to protect the playerbase and the game from CCP. Their role is not being game designers. That's secondary.
*CPM-0 has been unable to protect the playerbase. Up to the fanfest, CCP was making Aurum events and promoting the game as if it was going to continue. Some Dust players spend a lot of money flying to Iceland because they believed Dust was going to continue being developed. The moment CPM-0 realized they had no way to protect the players from that, they should have resigned.
*CPM-0 has been unable to protect the game from CCP. Dust is dead, except as maybe a way for CCP to test some changes in the mechanics or balancing gear.
So yes, CPM-0 failed in defending both the players and the game. If they had all resigned, and announced that resignation on the forums, that would have make people start asking questions. Probably some travels to Iceland would have been cancelled. And at least they would have been able to face us with a straight face. That's just my opinion, of course. However, this has already been debated in multiple threads, and is not the point of this one.
The point of this thread is to know the stance of all the candidates on this issue. Whatever they say, at least nobody will be able to accuse them of deceiving their voters, so it's a win/win situation for them to state their opinion. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1009
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 11:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:It is also so damn easy for outsiders of the NDA to chive us at every moment and judge us for actions or inactions. So lets do little scenario.
It is, isn't it? That's the main reason CCP has a CPM, to use it as scapegoats. However, no one ever forced you to accept being one, so my sympathy is limited.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[You are amongst the CPM and were told about CCP Rogue's pitch for a PC platform; you convince your fellows to resign and even make a resignation post. 6 months later; FanFest is thrown and Project Legion is announced; but the more features you hear, the more you think to yourself in your rage you are further infuriated that the game being pitched is nothing that Dust 514 was inspiring to become instead it was something not even worth mentioning belonging being in the eve universe.
I like the extremes of your supposition. Either resign at the start without doing nothing, or not resign ever. What about resigning one month prior to fanfest, when it was obvious that CCP didn't plan to warn the players about the incoming change of platform? That would have allowed the people that did travel to Iceland to save money, and also warned people about to spend money on the events.
Also, it would have given you 5 months to try your best to change CCP mind about how to handle this.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[And now the fan players like myself; players who been dreaming the the dream that dust 514 was supposed to be achieved are now calling accusations of your betrayal to letting the dream die because you didn't have the courage to weather either storm and you let legion become a total effing mess that just gets filed under incarna level screw up and never to be visited again any time soon.
I would prefer facing those accusations over a game not being done, (which by the way, you would be able to point to the real culprit, CCP. They are the ones making the game after all.), than facing accusations of my inaction costing players real life money.
However, as I said before, this thread is not to know CPM-0 opinion. That has been made very clear on multiple threads already. You guys are misunderstood heroes. You have sacrificed yourselves putting endless unpaid hours for CCP and the community, even when no one asked you to accept the post in the first place. You have done a great job, even when people have lost money and the game is going to a platform half the community wont follow, and you are also very proud of yourselves and don't plan to even apologize any time soon.
We get it.
Well, I'm sorry. For CCP, you might be the best CPM ever, but for the playerbase, you are an utter failure. You became one the moment you knew what was coming and did nothing to prevent people wasting money on a dead product.
I wanted to know the CPM-1 candidates opinion, but after 3 days, it's doubtful that those that have not posted ever will. Such is life.
EDIT: Maybe I am being too hard on you guys. But as I said, since you actually sound quite proud and happy about all this, probably not. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1012
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 18:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:I'm still standing. Should answer your question I think.
As to the question of if Caz resigned from the CPM or not over Legion, it's irrelevant to your enquiry and merely included to attempt to illicit a response.
It should be telling a lot to you guys, that he never broke the NDA in order to warn the players he allegedly resigned in support of. It suggests to me that either
1. His resignation had nothing to do with the switch to PC.
2. If 1 is not the case and it did, he knew better than to screw around with breaking NDA and ruining his future job prospects. Something that those claiming they would've broken it, might want to bear in mind and re-evaluate their position.
Nice words. And speaking of words, I would appreciate you not putting in my mouth words I have not said.
1. I have never said that Caz resignation had anything to do with the move to PC.
2. I have never said that the CPM should have broken the NDA.
1. I don't care about the move to PC. What I care is the "bait and switch" that CCP pulled on the playerbase through events and misleading advertising, that motivated the playerbase to spend money, either in the game or traveling to the fanfest, that they would have not spent if they had know this change was coming.
I would not think this point is so difficult to see by anyone, so the only reason I can-Št think for you to not see it, is because you don't want to. Why you wouldn't, I don't know. Care to explain?
You can see that Caz is pretty angered about the cash grabbing on his posts during last week, although he never broke the NDA to tell us why he resigned.
2. Never once I have said that the CPM should break the NDA. Please, quote. Actually, I strongly advice against it. But if the full CPM resigned, that would have raised a red flag for a lot of people, that would have prevented a lot of money to be lost. And they can perfectly resign without breaking the NDA.
Even if it didn't (prevent people from wasting money), at least that would have shown that they cared about the interests of the players before anything else.
The other candidates gave an honest answer. From you, the only thing I see is trying to put words in my mouth I didn't say and avoiding the real question. You sound like a politician for me.
I guess you would have been a great CPM-0. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1012
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[ Reported for trolling; chambers is no place for asshatery like this.
No such thing as moral high grounds around here. Flat even planes for everyone.
Trolling, what trolling? Sometimes you worry me. He did went to the fanfest dressed as a caldari dropsuit. Proof:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fdenniefleetfoot.blogspot.co.uk%2f2014%2f05%2ffanfest-nda-and-wedding.html%3fspref%3dtw&domain=blogspot.co.uk
I'm sorry, but disagreeing with you and saying that you that you failed as a CPM, is not trolling. I'm afraid that the one trying to speak from a supposedly moral high ground is you.
HTFU? |
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1012
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Posted - 2014.05.10 22:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Actually your first multiple choice, does clearly state that Caz resigned when faced with the choice that CPM0 had and as such, I felt I was fully entitled to answer the way I did.
I just wanted to point that the question was about how CCP handled the announcement and the money part of the playerbase lost because of that, and not about the move to PC itself, which I don't mind at all. I actually think it is a good move for the game itself, even if it's a bad move for the current community.
About the rest, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
For you, the CPM should help CCP to build and, in your own words, "sculpt this game from the ground up ".
For me, the CPM should protect the playerbase from CCP mistakes. Starting with protecting their money. I have already wrote about why the CPM should have resigned all over the thread, so there is no point on repeating it here again.. If it is not enough to convince you, nothing will.
Anyway, I appreciate your answers and your honesty. Good luck in the CPM election and I hope time probes you right and me wrong.
Although I don't expect it. |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1015
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 11:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tech De Ra wrote:Flyingconejo wrote:I just wanted to point that the question was about how CCP handled the announcement Flyingconejo wrote:Faced with the same choice that the CPM-0 had to make, would you:
A) Resign from the CPM, as Cazaderon did?
B) Stay in the CPM?
I don't see where your question even had the announcement in context, it was solely about if the candidates would resign or not when "faced with same choice" that CPM0 had, the choice in question taking place about 5 or 6 months before fanfest '14 had even started
Bactrack about what? I think I have made my position pretty clear during all the thread. Don't confuse being polite with changing my mind. (I know, politeness in an internet forum. Shocking.)
No, I admit the question is really vague, but that was because I was trying for it to be as neutral as possible. For me the problem was so evident (staying silent and allowing CCP to keep making money of oblivious users), that didn't think that people would think I was asking about something completely different (move to PC).
Anyway, I think I have clarified the question all along the thread. I will edit the first post as well, if that makes you happy. Feel free to change your answer or add a new one if you thought I was asking about the move to PC.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1015
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Posted - 2014.05.11 11:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Captain Spiff 514 wrote:Who cares?
Good question bro.
Apparently, not many people, if the number of posts not made by a cpm/cpm-candidate in this section of the forums give us a clue.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1015
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 13:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tech De Ra wrote: You said yourself that the question was about how CCP handled the announcement, which was at fanfest.
Flyingconejo wrote:I just wanted to point that the question was about how CCP handled the announcement and the money part of the playerbase lost because of that, and not about the move to PC itself
And the choice the CPM faced was how to react about that. Either by resigning or by staying in the CPM. Your quote was incomplete, surely an accident.
You know what, since you are actually the only person that is having all that trouble with understanding my questioin, I'm starting to think your posts only intention is to derail the thread. Surely, someone aiming to the respectable position of CPM would not go for such trollish tactics.
Since most of your problems seem to be related about the phrasing of my posts, I have made quite a few long posts explaining both the question and my stance. For any remaining doubts, I refer you to them:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145934#post2145934 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2146037#post2146037 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2147625#post2147625 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2148107#post2148107 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2148759#post2148759 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2148974#post2148974 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2150378#post2150378 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2151182#post2151182 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2151758#post2151758 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2152816#post2152816
You realize that if it wasn't for you bumping it, this thread would have already been lost on the forums, right? |
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