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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2014.05.08 05:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay. Some assumptions. The CCP guys have better numbers, so these are not even guesses, just hypothetical numbers.
Newbies start with militia gear. They are playing only Skirmishes and Dominations. Say they get 2 kills and die 10 times. Each game is approx 20 minutes. So an hour a day for 3 months. SP approx 5000 per match + 6000 a day. 21000 + whatever the passive SP are? 24000 a day? So this is like 45000 SP a day. This is 4,050,000 SP.
Now over this time the player gets better, say they now on average kill 6 and die 6 times or maybe they are great and kill 10 and only die 2 times. They probably also increase their SP per game, average 6000 to 6250, through uplinks, medical revives, swarm launchers,etc. but skip that for now to make the math easy.
So this is enough to
You need approx 650,000 SP to Proto a Light Weapon and approx 1,200,000 SP to Proto a Medium Dropsuit. but most newbies don't just maximize these things, they spread around their points. Buy some Shields, or maybe some Engineering or Hacking.
Maybe their second or third character, they specialize, but just one character for now, again for simplicity.
So what is this whole exercise for? How to help newbies?
Maybe:
Give every newbie a Million SP to dole out at the start or hoard.
Double their SP achieved for the first million or two SP.
Give them a 5% bonus damage on Light weapons for the first 1 or 2 million SP earned. Or 5% for the first million and then 3% for the 2nd million. Maybe also give them a 5% bonus on Shields or 10% Shield Regeneration bonus again until 1 or 2 million.
They could double the SP until 20-25-30 levels are purchased. Going to 3 in Assault Rifle is 6 (1+2+3) levels in this scenario.
Or give them 10 or 15 million ISK, so they can use their best gear virtually all the time. Or every week give them 1-2 million ISK.
I mean if you die 30 times over and hour and only kill 6 guys over that same hour, there are other games that people will move to with an easier learning curve.
May the Haters and the Trolls at least try to be reasonable. Who am I kidding, they are by definition reactionary. |
TunRa
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
600
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Posted - 2014.05.08 05:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
I once met a newb that maxed out dropsuit command.
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1133
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Posted - 2014.05.08 05:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
I made a similar suggestiona while ago. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1547588#post1547588
Quote:Question: How do you make new players lives easier? Answer: Increase the rate of passive and active SP gain until a new player reaches 4 million SP. New players, regardless of their actual skill (gun game) are not able to compete with vet players due to the effect of the RPG elements of the game (more effective gear from skills, and better gear from ISK). Additionally, they lack any reasonable options rapidly increase their SP to compete on an even footing. As it stands it takes a new player over 2 months to gain enough SP to use an advanced fit-out (~4 million SP, for racial dropsuit, fittings and weapons), and over 6 months to be able to use a proto fit-out (~10 million SP). ThatGÇÖs a long time for someone to stick around if all they have to look forward to is being beaten by players who arenGÇÖt necessarily better than them, but still win because their gear is more effective. The lucky thing is this is reasonably easy to fix, and all it takes is one minor change and the gifting of two in game items by CCP. If done right, it should not only assist with retention of new player, but will potentially drive further AUR transactions for CCP at the same time. The first component of this change is fairly simple: double starter SP and ISK (to 1 million SP and 500k ISK). That way new playerGÇÖs start with enough SP to be able to train for a standard (racial) fit, and are able to afford the skill books to get it. The second component implements existing in-game items: all new players start with 30 day passive and active SP booster modules equipped (so they canGÇÖt be traded). The effect of the boosters is threefold: 1. The passive booster means new players see significant SP gains each time they logon, and are able to quickly progress through skill tiers (especially considering the first couple of tiers of skills tend to be quite cheap SP wise). This gives them a feeling of progression and will keep them excited about the new unlocks, regardless of how well they are faring on the battle field. 2. The active booster gives them a reason to play matches and to attempt to cap out each week, to maximise their gains. This creates a pattern of behaviour which will keep them logging in longer term, and foster better play to max WP gain. 3. Once the boosters finish the players will have invested enough time and energy into the characters that they will be likely to continue playing, while the loss of the boosted SP will mean they may consider purchasing AUR to continue gaining SP at an accelerated rate. In combination, the changes mean a new player could reach 4 million SP in 5 weeks, instead of the 8 to 9 weeks it currently takes. This is a far more reasonable timeframe to becoming partially effective against vet players, but doesnGÇÖt significantly cheapen the journey to proto, which requires a further 3 months on top (un-boosted). The only additional suggestion I would make is that CCP would need to make it explicit that the boosters are a gift at the time they player starts, so itGÇÖs obvious that their SP gain is not the normal and that they need to play to get the most benefit out of it. Otherwise you may end up with some very disappointed players once the boosters run out
Knowledge is power
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
735
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Posted - 2014.05.08 07:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
TIMMY DAVIS wrote:
Give every newbie a Million SP to dole out at the start or hoard.
Double their SP achieved for the first million or two SP.
Give them a 5% bonus damage on Light weapons for the first 1 or 2 million SP earned. Or 5% for the first million and then 3% for the 2nd million. Maybe also give them a 5% bonus on Shields or 10% Shield Regeneration bonus again until 1 or 2 million.
They could double the SP until 20-25-30 levels are purchased. Going to 3 in Assault Rifle is 6 (1+2+3) levels in this scenario.
Or give them 10 or 15 million ISK, so they can use their best gear virtually all the time. Or every week give them 1-2 million ISK. May the Haters and the Trolls at least try to be reasonable. Who am I kidding, they are by definition reactionary.
So let me get this right , if someone doesn't agree with your suggestions ... then they are a hater ??? That's somewhat self-centered and narrow-minded and I'm not trying to offend you either .
I made the same suggestion that you made about the million myself and I wont pull up the thread either because it was just recently on a thread that I forgot the topic on so ... but anyway the damage bonus and the giving of ISK is just too much in my book and the million SP's should be adequate and that's all .
Next players would want a damage decrease taken for how ever many SP's that they begin with and other perks , when in this game everything is earned , this is a little too much and is akin to crutch and handholding , now I'm all for the NPE because I've been playing for seven months now and I like most around the time I started didn't have the chances that most of the vets who started out had when they received boatloads of SP's and refunds and I'm not complaining about that because the game was in a different state then it is now so , that is well understood but going threw 1.8 and just getting drop-suit refunds when there should have been a full infantry was wrong even more so when there was a full vehicle refund prior to the 1.8 drop and it wasn't too long because that was 1.7 so it was just some months in difference .
This game is challenging I would admit that but that's what I love about it , not the lore or " New Eden " but the fact that like in Riddick , you get to " Keep what you kill " in terms of SP's and implementing skills to fashion one's character and build your role or role's that you might choose to play .
That's the beauty of this game to me but at the same time , living in a world that is changing where people use to walk and jog or run and ride bikes but now they use Segway scooters and they hate to walk and would drive to the corner store , they don't call but rather text and use a remote because they get bothered when they have to get up to change the channel , hell most televisions now you can't change the channel unless you have a remote , basically what I'm saying is ... we are living in a world full of quick fixes and more and more people are loosing a work ethic , like the one the world had in the 40's to the 80's and before and it's prob because I'm old school , that I feel this way and have become sadden by the direction that the people in the world are turning to .
I'm all for a NPE because I'm still smelling new myself but you can kill the substance in the game with making it too easy and you can argue about how hard and how long it takes to skill up but for me the challenge means everything and when you dummy the game down , it looses it's substance and becomes like all the others that are on the market , I mean hell ... I myself wouldn't play a game like that where I'm sure many will or would but that doesn't mean that they are right , I choose to play because of the challenge and without that there are many games with the same concept that are out with less problems then this one , so I might as well play those but they just do not give me the challenge that this one or the community that is a part of Dust 514 does .
Moderation is good and when you try to do too much sometimes that changes the meaning of the substance that separates Dust from all others .
Yes I know the game is on life support but unlocking skills and just giving away items so that all levels are free and the game play is open ( I know your not suggesting that but it's clear that newer players would have a great advantage and others have suggested about removing the barriers so I'm addressing all in this statement ) would ruin the game and kill the sprit of competition and that's why I believe that most play the game .
Just like in pro sports , players get paid a lot of money to perform but the one's that stand out are the one's that can look beyond all the glitz and glamor and use the love of and for what they do to perform above and beyond the mediocre and I apologize because I'm not trying to insult you or those who would love to " open the flood gates " but doing too much would kill the competition and make this game mediocre where some can argue but I believe , right now barring bugs and exploits ... it's truly not .
The honor of the vets who biomassed will never be forgotten and will always be upheld until the very end .
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
384
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Posted - 2014.05.08 07:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
About this part
TIMMY DAVIS wrote: They could double the SP until 20-25-30 levels are purchased. Going to 3 in Assault Rifle is 6 (1+2+3) levels in this scenario.
At this scenario I buy 19 lev only... and I will happy roaming with free -all time active- x2 booster. What you think ... it is good?
Back to topic... there was a lot of topics about 'giving all to newbies'.
Not much time left...
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Hansei Kaizen
The Jackson Five
199
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Posted - 2014.05.08 09:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think everything that might help the Newbies is welcome. Just implement every possible assistance for the Newbs across the board. These assistances can expire or lower over time. Measure it on the performance of the mathematically average Player, because if the bump in the gaussian curve is much to the right of the chart, the assistances must get higher too. Implement rubberbanding.
Sweeten the horrible KDR for them (and yes, it matters, because dying is the ultimative punishment in Dust). Eliminate KDR alltogether. Give them WP for dying or something. Give them 150 WP for Kill assists or some ****. Just anything.
I mean, until Legion hits we may as well experiment with Dust a bit more, right?
The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always.
NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Casual solo
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Hansei Kaizen
The Jackson Five
199
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Posted - 2014.05.08 10:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Just like in pro sports , players get paid a lot of money to perform but the one's that stand out are the one's that can look beyond all the glitz and glamor and use the love of and for what they do to perform above and beyond the mediocre and I apologize because I'm not trying to insult you or those who would love to " open the flood gates " but doing too much would kill the competition and make this game mediocre where some can argue but I believe , right now barring bugs and exploits ... it's truly not .
I think we have a little ambiguity with what is meant by "competition". I for one dont think that competition is a factor in the game as it is, and that is exactly why it IS mediocre. I must explain a bit more what I mean.
Ever heard of Boxing and Wrestling? There are "weight classes" in Sport, for exactly one reason and one reason only: Balancing. A guy who weighs 100 pounds has a chance against a guy wheighing 200 pounds in wrestling right? No, he has not (except by using forbidden techniques = cheating)! So yes there is competition in Dust as it is, but is it not FAIR competition. It is crappy one sided BS competition, and slight adjustments wont fix anything about it.
I frankly think the form of competition you advocate is misguided in terms of games or sports. It is just a means of defending an easy mode of instant gratification from the perspective of a big player in the painfully small pond. If you are a masochist, you may love the rouge-like character Dust has at the moment. But it isnt fair game, it isnt competetive. If we cant agree on that we will not agree on anything regarding Dust.
The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always.
NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Casual solo
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2518
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Posted - 2014.05.08 10:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
TunRa wrote:I once met a newb that maxed out dropsuit command. I was thinking about doing it when I was bored, but then I got Forge Gun Reload 1. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
735
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Posted - 2014.05.08 11:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hansei Kaizen wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Just like in pro sports , players get paid a lot of money to perform but the one's that stand out are the one's that can look beyond all the glitz and glamor and use the love of and for what they do to perform above and beyond the mediocre and I apologize because I'm not trying to insult you or those who would love to " open the flood gates " but doing too much would kill the competition and make this game mediocre where some can argue but I believe , right now barring bugs and exploits ... it's truly not . I think we have a little ambiguity with what is meant by "competition". I for one dont think that competition is a factor in the game as it is, and that is exactly why it IS mediocre. I must explain a bit more what I mean. Ever heard of Boxing and Wrestling? There are "weight classes" in Sport, for exactly one reason and one reason only: Balancing. A guy who weighs 100 pounds has a chance against a guy wheighing 200 pounds in wrestling right? No, he has not (except by using forbidden techniques = cheating)! So yes there is competition in Dust as it is, but is it not FAIR competition. It is crappy one sided BS competition, and slight adjustments wont fix anything about it. I frankly think the form of competition you advocate is misguided in terms of games or sports. It is just a means of defending an easy mode of instant gratification from the perspective of a big player in the painfully small pond. If you are a masochist, you may love the rouge-like character Dust has at the moment. But it isnt fair game, it isnt competetive. If we cant agree on that we will not agree on anything regarding Dust. I understand the concept of boxing and wrestling , seeing as how I have done both in the past and have taken martial sciences for some time as well so I understand and their have been mentioning of transfer of skills or SP's to legion where those who have never played Dust or legion wont have the liberty of having such a start and I've herd as well that there will be a lot of exploiting in legion as well and for the mediocre part , then why are you here if it is so unbalanced and you are displeased with the mechanics ???
I just don't understand you people who find any and everything to complain about this game and yet , you still play and are still here . I find it more fair because it has rules , a system of measuring and standards , a system of and for growth and it does get better with the more effort that you put in and that's said about anything in life and also life .
Opportunity meets life and gives birth to circumstances that can be for or against you . Just because there are weight classes in sports doesn't mean that someone who is lesser can not best someone who is greater and if you boxed or wrestled then you would know this and would be more than willing to except the challenge , it seems like you are in favor of hand holding , where I am not because this world will not hold your hand and will kick your @$$ all over the place if your just that weak minded to allow it .
The honor of the vets who biomassed will never be forgotten and will always be upheld until the very end .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
735
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Posted - 2014.05.08 11:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Before anyone flips out and chain post me , I am not against the transfer of anything from Dust to legion , like I said ... you should be able to keep what you kill .
I don't care anyway seeing as how I don't PC and wont purchase one just to play legion .
I have a PS4 and that's enough .
The honor of the vets who biomassed will never be forgotten and will always be upheld until the very end .
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
11
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Posted - 2014.05.08 11:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why bother? CCP has never shown any mercy to the new player in any game. Why would they start now? To do so now, at the end of dust, it just doesn't compute. Their motto is not about fluffy kittens and puppies. Its about telling their victims not to qq and thanks for the cash.
Any newbies are to be pitied.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed.
735
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Posted - 2014.05.08 12:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:Why bother? CCP has never shown any mercy to the new player in any game. Why would they start now? To do so now, at the end of dust, it just doesn't compute. Their motto is not about fluffy kittens and puppies. Its about telling their victims not to qq and thanks for the cash.
Any newbies are to be pitied. That's how it was when I started and I'm still here and is a part of what I love about this game .
Anything less could and can be found in hundreds of other titles so I suggest that people who are not satisfied with how it's done here , to weigh their options because they do have them .
Some people still like a challenge and expect that same challenge to bring out the best in the same person , I know that's how I was raised and how I live my life and I try to instil the same in my children .
When your complacent I've found that leads to some bad decision making and soon that same person might be in a situation that they just feel like they can not get out of and at the same time that complacency makes one oblivious to changing those circumstances and they will wonder , " How'd I get here ??? " .... it deadens the mind .
Edit : I'm not in favor or robbing anyone either .
The honor of the vets who biomassed will never be forgotten and will always be upheld until the very end .
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
129
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Posted - 2014.05.08 12:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
There are a lot of words on the post of this thread. That is too many words to bother with for a dead game. Are we talking DUST or Legion here? You all did get the memo right?
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
I honestly had not seen your post, but I see that we are if not on the same page in the same chapter. I agree with your concepts. The game needs more players and that means helping the new guys. |
bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
763
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
honestly?
give all the newberries proto combat rifles. that should shut them up
Sign if you refuse to give up on the PS3 Dust
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
641
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Posted - 2014.05.08 17:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
TunRa wrote:I once met a newb that maxed out dropsuit command.
Hi, nice to see you again.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
641
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Posted - 2014.05.08 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
They pulled the plug on this game but said they will try and make some changes to matchmaking. Hopefully that also means a longer stay in the Academy and a way to discourage alts from playing there. Simply giving players more isk or sp doesn't solve anything since it is experience, not gear, that creates the biggest gap. It also cheapens the value of the grind and just separates the new players from the new new players, without really helping either.
To those who think that newcomers should just suck it up and get a backbone, bullshit. Take your faux machismo and shove it up your ass. Shinobi, you say you have done martial arts, did they throw you into competition against the best fighters in the sport on day one? Do you really think that is how you develop skill or character in a player? What any competent system does is teach you some skills first, prepare you and then introduce you to a challenge which requires you to try your best. It does not allow someone else to pound you into the ground without you knowing a single thing. Dust is dying, the primary reason it is dying is because this is exactly how the NPE worked and very few wanted to stick around for it.
Because, that's why.
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