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Instead of just giving Dust vets millions of sp in Legion...

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I-Shayz-I I-----I 3299	Posted - 2014.05.07 01:21:00 - [1] - Quote What if we got super omega passive boosters equivalent to the amount of sp we had in Dust? (each passive booster would give you 1.2 million sp per day, or 8.4 million sp for each 7-day booster). These boosters wouldn't affect any events or anything, and maybe use a "promotional booster" slot. Assuming passive sp will still be in Legion, it would solve 3 problems: 1. New players getting thrown to the sharks on the first days of the release, getting stomped if the matchmaking system doesn't work properly because of the insane amounts of sp most Dust vets would have. 2. It would avoid any problems with players wanting refunds because they weren't used to the new skill system. 3. Balance issues could be detected early with vets being at a similar skill level for the first month or so. Just a thought. (For the record I have 42 million sp, and will probably start a new character and try out the NPE before I transfer my Dust account) Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1125	Posted - 2014.05.07 01:28:00 - [2] - Quote Interesting idea, but really depends on how they implement the skill systems. May also be complicated by the way they do the transfer, as they appeared to allude to transferring skills over directly, where possible, instead of refunding SP etc. That said, I'd much prefer an equivalent transfer at launch to allow Dust players who make the jump to absolutely stomp the **** out of any new players. So they get the authentic Dust experience Knowledge is power
Jace Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 20	Posted - 2014.05.07 01:29:00 - [3] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Interesting idea, but really depends on how they implement the skill systems. May also be complicated by the way they do the transfer, as they appeared to allude to transferring skills over directly, where possible, instead of refunding SP etc. That said, I'd much prefer an equivalent transfer at launch to allow Dust players who make the jump to absolutely stomp the **** out of any new players. So they get the authentic Dust experience As we had to suffer, so shall they
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5219	Posted - 2014.05.07 01:31:00 - [4] - Quote I really don't see why they would need to completely tear up and redo the progression system we have right now, to be honest. Again, the EVE team talked in their NPE presentation about better teaching players how to handle complexity, while the Dust team is approaching the problem as "complexity isn't sexy!" and trying to dumb down the game.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 187	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:14:00 - [5] - Quote PC Master Race wrote: But, there won't be any of those problems because it's going to be on PC where CCP is suddenly able to code worth a **** and at a workingman's pace. PSN: The_Rynoceros Transmission Failed The test is now over.
DUST Fiend The Wings of Legion 14123	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:23:00 - [6] - Quote EVE is fine with new players entering in against 10 year vets. If we had proper NPE and places for new players to go without mingling with vets, we would also have no problem with new players entering in against our vets. Since CCP plans to address the NPE with PvE "starting zones" there should be no issue. Also considering that we will very likely have a higher player count in matches, there will be less of an impact when a few vets are placed into a match, and who knows how matchmaking will evolve between now and then. Vets are going to keep their SP.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1842	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:28:00 - [7] - Quote I'd rather just keep my SP. There will always be new players to take care of... I doubt a few weeks in the beginning when everyone is equal is going to matter that much.... after the first month or so, and perpetually forward, the newbs will be stomped.... unless there is some place for them to go and fight against similarly skilled mercs, or do PVE or something. Double posting like a Kaiser.
21yrOld Knight Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 877	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:29:00 - [8] - Quote NPE shouldn't be an issue in legion, because of how many players are expected to play it. So in reality if you come from dust and go to legion you shouldn't loose sp. Mike Ruan Said I was Dust Famous *General John Ripper Said I was Dust Famous* I'm famous in dead game. WHYYYYYY
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8385	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:33:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I really don't see why they would need to completely tear up and redo the progression system we have right now, to be honest. Again, the EVE team talked in their NPE presentation about better teaching players how to handle complexity, while the Dust team is approaching the problem as "complexity isn't sexy!" and trying to dumb down the game. The progression system in Dust is flawed at best. Too many SP sinks, some weapons didn't have optimization skills (nova knives for example... the only example), some skill levels were useless (no point in training lvl 4-5 in certain skill books), etc. Then there was the academy that wasn't really an academy and didn't show players how to properly progress in the game and were instead fed to the sharks. http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1706	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:34:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: EVE is fine with new players entering in against 10 year vets. If we had proper NPE and places for new players to go without mingling with vets, we would also have no problem with new players entering in against our vets. Since CCP plans to address the NPE with PvE "starting zones" there should be no issue. Also considering that we will very likely have a higher player count in matches, there will be less of an impact when a few vets are placed into a match, and who knows how matchmaking will evolve between now and then. Vets are going to keep their SP. Agreed. I've always thought that PVE would greatly improve the NPE, as it would still be a way to progress and earn ISK and SP where you can co-op with vets instead of being stomped by them. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2161	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:35:00 - [11] - Quote Harpyja wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: EVE is fine with new players entering in against 10 year vets. If we had proper NPE and places for new players to go without mingling with vets, we would also have no problem with new players entering in against our vets. Since CCP plans to address the NPE with PvE "starting zones" there should be no issue. Also considering that we will very likely have a higher player count in matches, there will be less of an impact when a few vets are placed into a match, and who knows how matchmaking will evolve between now and then. Vets are going to keep their SP. Agreed. I've always thought that PVE would greatly improve the NPE, as it would still be a way to progress and earn ISK and SP where you can co-op with vets instead of being stomped by them. ^this. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 695	Posted - 2014.05.07 02:36:00 - [12] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What if we got super omega passive boosters equivalent to the amount of sp we had in Dust? (each passive booster would give you 1.2 million sp per day, or 8.4 million sp for each 7-day booster). These boosters wouldn't affect any events or anything, and maybe use a "promotional booster" slot. Assuming passive sp will still be in Legion, it would solve 3 problems: 1. New players getting thrown to the sharks on the first days of the release, getting stomped if the matchmaking system doesn't work properly because of the insane amounts of sp most Dust vets would have. 2. It would avoid any problems with players wanting refunds because they weren't used to the new skill system. 3. Balance issues could be detected early with vets being at a similar skill level for the first month or so. Just a thought. (For the record I have 42 million sp, and will probably start a new character and try out the NPE before I transfer my Dust account) The problem of players facing other players with significantly higher SP is inevitable. If CCP Z's plans for progression work, this will not be an issue. Your proposal is a short term solution that achieves nothing significant long term. It would also make it harder to balance as the power gap between high and low SP players will not be immediately obvious. Players demanding refund because they're not familiar with a skill system? When does that ever happen? Medium frame EHP is not medium
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 784	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:00:00 - [13] - Quote I myself would very much prefer getting our DUST sp in legion at a slow rate, such that it takes about, say, a couple of months to get back 30+ million sp, rather than getting all of it in a single day. Of course, that would still have problems. It seems to me that there are no easy, painless solutions.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 462	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:07:00 - [14] - Quote Jace Kaisar wrote: Brokerib wrote: Interesting idea, but really depends on how they implement the skill systems. May also be complicated by the way they do the transfer, as they appeared to allude to transferring skills over directly, where possible, instead of refunding SP etc. That said, I'd much prefer an equivalent transfer at launch to allow Dust players who make the jump to absolutely stomp the **** out of any new players. So they get the authentic Dust experience As we had to suffer, so shall they Like for sig, good stuff Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
Jace Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 23	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:21:00 - [15] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Jace Kaisar wrote: Brokerib wrote: Interesting idea, but really depends on how they implement the skill systems. May also be complicated by the way they do the transfer, as they appeared to allude to transferring skills over directly, where possible, instead of refunding SP etc. That said, I'd much prefer an equivalent transfer at launch to allow Dust players who make the jump to absolutely stomp the **** out of any new players. So they get the authentic Dust experience As we had to suffer, so shall they Like for sig, good stuff Just got Complex Mybo's from the event. Put two on my scout for 360 something melee damage. I also sprint at 10.38 and run Six Kin ACR and Flaylock. I only have 285 eHP, but most fights don't last too long. Sprint up to the guy, fire ACR point blank and melee when you get in range. You can deal about 700+ damage in less than a second
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2785	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:28:00 - [16] - Quote That would be an interesting idea. Something like a 3x booster that gives 1 million SP over x amount of time and you get 1 of these boosters for every million SP? Your SP technically carries over without having people with 100-150 million SP on day 1. Interesting idea.
Ceadda Sai Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 25	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:39:00 - [17] - Quote Some of you seem to assume there is going to be a huge aspect of PvP in Legion. But from what CCP has shown us to date, they are developing legion away from the shooting players in the face kinda game. Forge Gunners: Now this is a gun for going out and and making people miserable with.
DUST Fiend The Wings of Legion 14127	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:41:00 - [18] - Quote Ceadda Sai wrote: Some of you seem to assume there is going to be a huge aspect of PvP in Legion. But from what CCP has shown us to date, they are developing legion away from the shooting players in the face kinda game. That's a straight up lie. They're splitting it in two, you know, like it should have ALWAYS been. Then they can give us the holy grail some day: PvPvE
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8387	Posted - 2014.05.07 03:58:00 - [19] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Then they can give us the holy grail some day: PvPvE Eve Online's mission running system is pretty much PvPvE. Say hello to the purple Ravens. http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 136	Posted - 2014.05.07 04:23:00 - [20] - Quote The only way people are going to be allowed to retain their SP or an equivalency is if there are tiers according to SP metrics. I know some of you still carry the abused/abuser mentality of "well it happened to me so now its my turn to do it to others". But, thats not how you achieve growth in a game. New players have to be given the time, space and tools to build themselves up to a level where they can give the vets a fight. Legion is being made to be a better game. That means there wont be vets with 40 million SP playing against new player with under 1 million. As much as some people think its their right to wield 50 million SP against a new player, I just don't see that happening as a long term viable plan.

straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 347	Posted - 2014.05.07 04:27:00 - [21] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Interesting idea, but really depends on how they implement the skill systems. May also be complicated by the way they do the transfer, as they appeared to allude to transferring skills over directly, where possible, instead of refunding SP etc. That said, I'd much prefer an equivalent transfer at launch to allow Dust players who make the jump to absolutely stomp the **** out of any new players. So they get the authentic Dust experience Haha i hate it and love .
Mary Lilac Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 242	Posted - 2014.05.07 04:28:00 - [22] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: The only way people are going to be allowed to retain their SP or an equivalency is if there are tiers according to SP metrics. I know some of you still carry the abused/abuser mentality of "well it happened to me so now its my turn to do it to others". But, thats not how you achieve growth in a game. New players have to be given the time, space and tools to build themselves up to a level where they can give the vets a fight. Legion is being made to be a better game. That means there wont be vets with 40 million SP playing against new player with under 1 million. As much as some people think its their right to wield 50 million SP against a new player, I just don't see that happening as a long term viable plan. Thats funny, I thought Skotty was supposed to help with that in dust. I could have sworn everyone has a pretty decent time in the academy, it is only when they are thrown to the wolves 1-2 games later that people decide to quit dust. I mean how hard would match-making have been? How hard would it be to tier the academy so that people have a safer place to go (not locked into) until 5-10 million sp? No that would imply that you weren't actively trying to sabotage this game. 1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG. Be polite, they want to refund you!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8392	Posted - 2014.05.07 06:52:00 - [23] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: The only way people are going to be allowed to retain their SP or an equivalency is if there are tiers according to SP metrics. I know some of you still carry the abused/abuser mentality of "well it happened to me so now its my turn to do it to others". But, thats not how you achieve growth in a game. New players have to be given the time, space and tools to build themselves up to a level where they can give the vets a fight. Legion is being made to be a better game. That means there wont be vets with 40 million SP playing against new player with under 1 million. As much as some people think its their right to wield 50 million SP against a new player, I just don't see that happening as a long term viable plan. Actually, I would be ok with 1 million SP players being pitted against 50 million SP players ONLY IF they have the option to do so. If they don't want to, then they can stay within their respective areas until they feel ready. Alternatively they should be given the option to enter tiered matches so that they can learn how to fight against those of their own caliber. Eve Online has something similar to that where new players are born in starter systems that have heavy restrictions against veteran players. For example, a veteran player can enter these systems but they are prohibited from scamming new players within the system, ganking new players within the system, etc. However, as soon as the new player leaves the starter system, that veteran player is free to do as pleases to him. Starter systems in Eve are pretty much sanctuaries. The downside with these sanctuaries however is that they are not profitable and they don't have much room for veteran players. So once a new player's need has exceeded what the starter system can offer, that player is then encouraged to enter the rest of New Eden and face the sharks. They can still stay in the starter systems if they like, but the starter system only limits their capacity to grow. http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1684	Posted - 2014.05.07 08:03:00 - [24] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I really don't see why they would need to completely tear up and redo the progression system we have right now, to be honest. Again, the EVE team talked in their NPE presentation about better teaching players how to handle complexity, while the Dust team is approaching the problem as "complexity isn't sexy!" and trying to dumb down the game. The progression system in Dust is flawed at best. Too many SP sinks, some weapons didn't have optimization skills (nova knives for example... the only example), some skill levels were useless (no point in training lvl 4-5 in certain skill books), etc. Then there was the academy that wasn't really an academy and didn't show players how to properly progress in the game and were instead fed to the sharks. ^ that. The SP change from beta to launch was quite shocking. Each racial suit requiring an extra 273,600 SP to get into because of the Frame System, skills going from x2 to x5 because "we looked at it and decided that those skills were powerful", and more skills needed to get to simple things. The problem is that they put an EVE type "it is going to be two years from today that I can fly a Titan" skill sinks into a game type that is traditionally "log in, skill some people, have some fun, log off." This was probably done to artificially give the game more depth so CCP could say "DUST 514 would require years to get everything as it has so much depth" to the cameras and slow down the burn of people going into Prototype. In beta it was about 4 million SP to hit Prototype in a suit, now it is between 6 and 8 million. They don't need to completely tear down the skill tree but it is not a terrible idea to be honest. Making things more streamlined and lowering complexity isn't necessarily dumbing things down. Something can be difficult without being complex. For example, any 8 year old should be able to learn the rules of Chess inside of 30 minutes. Not too difficult really, even D'Angelo was able to teach two drug dealers how to play Chess in three minutes. Legion is hoping to be the same way I guess. Something that anyone can learn how to do but it is difficult in different ways. Let's be honest for a minute. The SP tree is not hard, it is complicated. This means that a ten minute read through of a "So You Just Started DUST" guide arms people well enough to make moves that help them out just fine but people that go in without that level of preparedness waste their SP. The difficulty comes in fitting. Prototype weapon with Basic-Advanced Modules or Basic weapon with Prototype modules? You can use this module but you lose this or you can use this module but it takes up a fitting slot and isn't as efficient. Difficulty should be in the game through choices and gameplay, not in mechanics. The new X-COM game is fairly difficult and rewards great strategic play but are far, far less complicated than original UFO Defense. That is a good change and my guess is that Legion wants to be the same thing. EVE is having the same changes though in different ways. The ISIS system has made the game a LOT more approachable in regards to what is each ship supposed to do and what I should have to fly each ship competently. Complexity and frustration do not a difficult name make. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 781	Posted - 2014.05.07 08:31:00 - [25] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: The only way people are going to be allowed to retain their SP or an equivalency is if there are tiers according to SP metrics. I know some of you still carry the abused/abuser mentality of "well it happened to me so now its my turn to do it to others". But, thats not how you achieve growth in a game. New players have to be given the time, space and tools to build themselves up to a level where they can give the vets a fight. Legion is being made to be a better game. That means there wont be vets with 40 million SP playing against new player with under 1 million. As much as some people think its their right to wield 50 million SP against a new player, I just don't see that happening as a long term viable plan. Please tell me how you think they will maintain this for new players 3-4 years down the line. Cause if they can't do it then, it's impractical to do it now. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3285	Posted - 2014.05.07 08:41:00 - [26] - Quote What's the obsession with complete newbs having a chance against vets?. You have yo give players something to aim for and something that makes their time invested in the game worth it. Proto fights in dust used to be pretty epic but now its a case of 'I saw you first' pretty much. Vets owning is something that is widely accepted and has been for ages. I don't think CCP is aiming for another 'mlt gear ftw' scrub fest like we have in dust. Besides eve legion on day one will be more successful than dust ever was, everyone will be on the same playing field, most likely anyway. Well that was fun
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 640	Posted - 2014.05.07 09:07:00 - [27] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: What's the obsession with complete newbs having a chance against vets?. You have yo give players something to aim for and something that makes their time invested in the game worth it. Proto fights in dust used to be pretty epic but now its a case of 'I saw you first' pretty much. Vets owning is something that is widely accepted and has been for ages. I don't think CCP is aiming for another 'mlt gear ftw' scrub fest like we have in dust. Besides eve legion on day one will be more successful than dust ever was, everyone will be on the same playing field, most likely anyway. Is this an FPS or a grind feet MMO? If you maintain this attitude you can expect no new players from the FPS community and you'll just have to put up with scavenging from EVE's player base. It's like you all want Legion to fail. Aim for? Gear grind? Is this ******* WoW? You clowns want to take all the worthless garbage parts of Dust and inject straight into the new baby, making sure it's an abomination against sane design principles.
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3285	Posted - 2014.05.07 09:18:00 - [28] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: What's the obsession with complete newbs having a chance against vets?. You have yo give players something to aim for and something that makes their time invested in the game worth it. Proto fights in dust used to be pretty epic but now its a case of 'I saw you first' pretty much. Vets owning is something that is widely accepted and has been for ages. I don't think CCP is aiming for another 'mlt gear ftw' scrub fest like we have in dust. Besides eve legion on day one will be more successful than dust ever was, everyone will be on the same playing field, most likely anyway. Is this an FPS or a grind feet MMO? If you maintain this attitude you can expect no new players from the FPS community and you'll just have to put up with scavenging from EVE's player base. It's like you all want Legion to fail. Aim for? Gear grind? Is this ******* WoW? You clowns want to take all the worthless garbage parts of Dust and inject straight into the new baby, making sure it's an abomination against sane design principles. I didn't say anything about a grind. When people go on about balance between new players and vets they usually just mean nerf the good stuff. Nice hype. Well that was fun
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 600	Posted - 2014.05.07 09:19:00 - [29] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What if we got super omega passive boosters equivalent to the amount of sp we had in Dust? (each passive booster would give you 1.2 million sp per day, or 8.4 million sp for each 7-day booster). These boosters wouldn't affect any events or anything, and maybe use a "promotional booster" slot. Assuming passive sp will still be in Legion, it would solve 3 problems: 1. New players getting thrown to the sharks on the first days of the release, getting stomped if the matchmaking system doesn't work properly because of the insane amounts of sp most Dust vets would have. 2. It would avoid any problems with players wanting refunds because they weren't used to the new skill system. 3. Balance issues could be detected early with vets being at a similar skill level for the first month or so. Just a thought. (For the record I have 42 million sp, and will probably start a new character and try out the NPE before I transfer my Dust account) 1. Go to wallmart, buy ps3. 2. Download DUST, buy busters. 3. Collect SP, dont cry. ...sorry for bad English =)


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