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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1317
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I agree and think that large parts of the new progression concept are horribly misguided from the very ground up.
CCP Z said that he wants meaningful, informed decisions without "punishing" players for their mistakes.
The problem with not wanting to punish players for making the wrong decisions is that, without the possibility to make wrong decisions, there's also no way to make right ones since there's no longer an inherent distinction between those two.
If no decision i'm allowed to make can possibly end up being wrong and punishing me, if only by not being as much of an improvement as one of the alternative choices, the inverse is true aswell in that no decision i'm allowed to make can reward me, of only by improving a bit more than the next guy.
What we're left with is an ultimately pointless chain of essentially inconsequential decisions that might aswell not exist at all because they are already designed in such a way as to never negatively impact my performance relative to the immediate alternatives. As such they will only serve as a speed limiter for arbitrarily increasing numbers/added abilities over the course of one's progression and quickly perceived as such by the player, who has no need and therefore no incentive to to actively engage with the system and attempt to make a meaningful, informed decision to begin with.
TL;DR: There's no reward to a progression that cannot punish. What's left is progression for the sake of it.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1319
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
low genius wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/evelegion
tell ccp how you feel about legion.
you'll notice this poll is NOT on the dust forums.
in response to your post... they act like most of this couldn't be solved by making gear-specific battles. why is that? From what i can tell from the keynote they're actually going to do gear-specific (meta averagres it seems) battles.
I happen to disagree with that aswell unless they add the possibility to "cheat" the system, for example, with expensive faction/officer gear that performs better than "normal" gear of the same meta level. That would already be a departure from the EVE paradigm where power scales with meta level but it would at least make sense and retain a modicum of purpose to it all when you ignore this inconsistency.
The reason is essentially the same as with the skills. There's no point in using better gear when you're automatically matched with overall equally geared opponents. You could aswell remove the whole gear progression since it's, again, just arbitrarily increasing numbers/added abilities for their own sake without adding anything tangible to your long term gameplay experience.
If the power disparity is what they want to fix then they should just severly worsen the the isk/power ratio with increasing tiers and, for gods sake, remove this "higher tier stuff is all-around better, because....FU" and give us true specialization instead, where higher proficiency in one task is always bough with reduced proficiency in one/several others like they did and still are in the process of doing in EVE.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1322
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Posted - 2014.05.07 00:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sete Clifton wrote:In the roundtable that Zion posted, they actually talk about this very topic/issue, and CCP Z is there for it too. I wouldn't necessarily say it will change anyone's mind, but for those who haven't seen it yet, I definitely recommend watching it. Skip to about the 40 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDEA_n_dvlc&noredirect=1 Thanks for that. One thing that strikes me as odd is CCP Z's insistence on "people not getting it" - basically asserting that the majority of players is ignorant of the supposed variety of viable options, which makes the progression monotonuos and unfun.
I've never seen a player "not getting it" in that context. Wha I do see, however, is the majority of players realizing, quickly and painfully, that spreading out across different suits and gear is simply not viable with the massive power scaling we currently have. Any half competent PRO fit carries a significant eHP and utility advantage, invalidating the generalist approach right from the get go in all but edge cases.
The currently monotonuos progression is not a product of "people not getting it". It is a direct consequence on a tier focused progression system that gives straight up numerical and practical improvements in almost all aspects of almost every suit. It's an issue, not merely perceived due to a lack of guidance or communication (although these two compound the issue) but the reality of the meta we are playing. A faulty system everyone realizes is faulty and reacts to in the most optimal way possible.
I'm afraid to say i notice undertones of a frightening lack of trust in the cognitive capacity and problem solving ability of CCPs core target audience: The "Thinking Man's Shooter" as CCP used to characterize their game und, by extension, their playerbase.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1323
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Posted - 2014.05.07 01:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:How did you type this holding a wine glass, a cane, and a cigar? Why, like a sir of course.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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