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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1106
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations.
Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to:
UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance.
The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1106
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 17:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Self-entitled man-child post.
Nothing to see here. Learn2Law |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1108
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hin Raven wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3[/url wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available ]here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. Never happen This is the actual law. It already happened (in 2008). |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1119
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. Oh dear..... good luck with that. (Sony will tell you to talk to CCP and CCP are based in Iceland, which as im sure you all know isnt in the EU) Jus Sayin bro If you trade in a country you are subject to its laws. It's really not hard to grasp. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1119
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:I'd be reasonably confident that the law would be applied to each purchase, rather than to all your Dust purchases as a whole. So you paid for Aurum, and got Aurum, as described in the product literature. Or you paid for a booster, and got that.
What you probably haven't done, in the eyes of the law, is paid for Dust itself based on any kind of binding longevity promise.
"A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision". So the outlines of a case would be:
1. Over the last several months CCP provided misleading information/deceptively presented information (e.g. 'laser-focused on PS3'). 2. This resulted in consumers making different decisions than they otherwise would (e.g. to buy AUR). 3. Therefore, a misleading action has occurred and consumer protection regulations have been breached.
There is no need for any 'binding longevity promise' or anything of the sort. All that is required is that misleading/deceptively presented information was provided at some stage, which materially impacted on consumers' decisions. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1122
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
DaReaperPW wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. How did they mislead you? How was the information provided misleading? And you do know that they said devlopment of dust will keep going, so that pretty much nullifies any law suite you have. You do remember that just because you found a random law, that you have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were mislead. From what i know, however, you were not. Spending money, and assuming its going to devlope and add new things to dust, was on you. Unless ccp told you, spacificly, that if you but this stuff it will bring you XXX then you were not misled. Case dismissed you lose. 'Laser-focused on PS3' - somewhat misleading, no?
Regarding reasonable doubt, that standard is only required in criminal cases. The standard in civil cases is the balance of probabilities. I get the impression that I have a rather firmer grasp of UK law than you do. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1127
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
DaReaperPW wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:DaReaperPW wrote:
How did they mislead you? How was the information provided misleading? And you do know that they said devlopment of dust will keep going, so that pretty much nullifies any law suite you have. You do remember that just because you found a random law, that you have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were mislead. From what i know, however, you were not. Spending money, and assuming its going to devlope and add new things to dust, was on you. Unless ccp told you, spacificly, that if you but this stuff it will bring you XXX then you were not misled. Case dismissed you lose.
'Laser-focused on PS3' - somewhat misleading, no? Regarding reasonable doubt, that standard is only required in criminal cases. The standard in civil cases is the balance of probabilities. I get the impression that I have a rather firmer grasp of UK law than you do. No, thats called marketing jargon. And because they looked at what dust was and changed stratigies thats on them. This is like you buying a pinto and expecting ford to make a pinto mark two, so you bought the pinto thinking they will use the money to get you a pinto, if they can the pinto, well thats your problem. You can play dust, even if they told you they were going to bring stuff soon(tm) and are lazor focused on ps3, at the time of said statement they prolly were lazor focused on ps3. Then they decided as a company to change gears. They do not need to tell you they are changing gears. As you are playing dust because its dust. If you are playing dust for the hope of what it might be, then thats on you. As you have to look at the product at face value. Unless they said "We are bringing you the player market on may 14th 2014, so but your gear now to prepair for that" That is a misleading statement. And a flat out lie. its also used as bait for you to spend your money. On the contrary, if you went to get into dust and one of the things on the offical website, by an offical member of ccp said "Dust has a fully functioning player market! come spend XXX to use it" and you bought dust and aurum for that reason, before you got into the game, then you have a case. It doesn;t matter if they tell you that you will be gods soon(tm) and able to fire lazor beams out your butt. As long as they don;t give you an explicite date you still lose. A promise =! a guarentee. Thats the difference. And its a free game, you CHOSE to spend money. If you did not do your research into what CCP has stated for eve, and failed to deliver, thats on you. So again, none of this was misleading to anyone. For all they have to do, is show a memo saying in march they are focused on ps3, then another in april givin the reasons why they have to get off the ps3. And they are fine. as 'lazor focused' is just a marketing tool. So can you show where they said "Hey guys, you are getting XXX on this exact date yyy" and because of this information, you went out and bought aurum? One more point. If you coudl sue for marketing terms, there are a ton of game companies you can sue. You can;t however, as there was no spacifics. What does 'lazor focused on ps3' mean? And the fact is, if they keep making updates that they can for dust, then they are technically lazor focused. Incredible stuff! Keep it coming, Kavanagh QC.
I've put a few highlights in bold. There is no requirement of a specific date in order for an action to be misleading. There is no special exemption for 'marketing jargon'. The fact that the company in question has failed to deliver on promises previously is no defence, obviously.
Are you, by any chance, CCP's in-house counsel? |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1127
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 20:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:R F Gyro wrote:I'd be reasonably confident that the law would be applied to each purchase, rather than to all your Dust purchases as a whole. So you paid for Aurum, and got Aurum, as described in the product literature. Or you paid for a booster, and got that.
What you probably haven't done, in the eyes of the law, is paid for Dust itself based on any kind of binding longevity promise.
"A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision". So the outlines of a case would be: 1. Over the last several months CCP provided misleading information/deceptively presented information (e.g. 'laser-focused on PS3'). 2. This resulted in consumers making different decisions than they otherwise would (e.g. to buy AUR). 3. Therefore, a misleading action has occurred and consumer protection regulations have been breached. There is no need for any 'binding longevity promise' or anything of the sort. All that is required is that misleading/deceptively presented information was provided at some stage, which materially impacted on consumers' decisions. You could well be right. Personally I still doubt it would work out like that if it were tested in court, but even if you could convince me it still wouldn't matter. What you need to do is convince Sony/CCP that there is enough of a risk that you're right that they decide to avoid that risk by paying you off. Or, you need to be so convinced yourself that you are willing to pay the price of litigating it. The beautiful thing is that there's no cost to litigating it. You just make a complaint to Citizens Advice who pass it on to Trading Standards to investigate. They will enforce as they see fit and provide compensation where appropriate.
I should emphasize that you should try to get money back from CCP/Sony before you try this. Citizens Advice may require that you do that before you go to them. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1127
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 20:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:People don't realize that in America, CCP most likely could be prosecuted for there product misrepresentation.
Of course, this is why they don't set one foot in America with DUST 514 and pretty much not with EVE (not sure about what they have going at their California office). Maybe if it was WoD there would have been legal recourse.
I'm assuming that though the company has satellite offices in America it can't be prosecuted through those since the game and company HQ is in Iceland and China.
If there is any possibility I'd love any lawyer types to find the loophole. Pretty sure US courts would have jurisdiction over AUR sales made in US dollars to US customers. It may well be that any liability would rest with Sony rather than CCP, though.
The main problem is that you may have to litigate under contract law as I don't believe US consumer protection is as robust as EU regulations. Nevertheless a class action may be viable. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1130
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:There are similar laws in New Zealand, Australia and a few other countries around the place.
They form part of the grounds on which many people have been requesting their refunds from Sony, and I know of a few people who have gotten said refunds. I've helped one of my friends get a refund himself.
If you have a phone number you can call for Sony Support, that's more likely to get you a prompt resolution than an email, so I'd suggest trying that if you're given a "this could take a while" email response. EU and Oceania numbers are here. |
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1133
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 21:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. please provide the misleading information iv looked the EULA on ARU is water tight you buying a currency to use on ingame items, thats all ARU is CCP coins to by boosters... all a booster is to gain skill points faster both of which CCP did, so huh good luck with that one, the law does not care about anything extra you made up in your head on why you are buying something The EULA does not stop UK law from applying. Any -ú purchase by a UK consumer is covered by consumer protection regulations. You buy AUR with -ú, hence those transactions are covered.
The law does not care about things people made up in their heads (thanks for that clarification, Perry Mason ) but it does care about misleading information/deceptive presentation of information that affects purchasing decisions. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1133
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 21:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Koshh Seere wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. Did you read the Dust 514 Eula/ToS before you posted this? Again, the EULA does not stop consumer protection regulations from applying. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1140
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 21:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
bigolenuts wrote:DaReaperPW wrote:
How did they mislead you? How was the information provided misleading? And you do know that they said devlopment of dust will keep going, so that pretty much nullifies any law suite you have. You do remember that just because you found a random law, that you have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were mislead. From what i know, however, you were not. Spending money, and assuming its going to devlope and add new things to dust, was on you. Unless ccp told you, spacificly, that if you but this stuff it will bring you XXX then you were not misled. Case dismissed you lose.
Read page 1, 4th post down. Written by CCP Saberwing. Can you explain to me what he is saying? This was less than 2 weeks before FanFest 2014. Maybe I am missing something in the message. Clarify for me. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2138998#post2138998 Yep, looks pretty misleading in my book:
CCP Saberwing wrote:No. We are still fully committed to developing EVE, DUST and Valkyrie. Lots of things will be shown around the games in the EVE Universe come Fanfest |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1145
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 21:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Argent Mordred wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:The EULA does not stop UK law from applying. Any -ú purchase by a UK consumer is covered by consumer protection regulations. You buy AUR with -ú, hence those transactions are covered. The law does not care about things people made up in their heads (thanks for that clarification, Perry Mason ) but it does care about misleading information/deceptive presentation of information that affects purchasing decisions. No but writing a EULA for a software product from a company like CCP or Sony entails a herd of lawyers specializing in the consumer laws for each country that the product is to be sold in. So I guarantee that the laws will have been dealt with to the letter. Maybe you will get lucky, but I doubt it. There is no way to just make laws go away with lawyerly words. All they do is say 'as far as permitted by law', i.e. they admit that they are still subject to applicable laws, but try to limit any claim beyond those laws. See, for instance, this:
SEN ToS wrote:19. Limits on our liability and your rights As far as permitted by law, we are not responsible or liable for nor do we give warranty or representation in relation to: (i) The quality, functionality, availability, completeness, accuracy or performance of the SEN or its services; (ii) Any errors, bugs or viruses in, or malicious use of, the SEN or its services; (iii) Inability to purchase or use any services available via the SEN; (iv) The activity and shared materials of other SEN users or hackers; (v) Services provided by third parties; (vi) Incompatibility of services with Sony systems licensed for sale outside of Europe, the Middle East, Africa, India, Russia and Oceania; (vii) Loss of data, loss of or damage to software or hardware or unauthorised access to your SEN account as a result of using or accessing the SEN; and (viii) Your Internet connection, including connection, data and roaming charges and any failure to have sufficient bandwidth to download or stream services from SEN.
We may withdraw access to free services or subscription trials at any time.
As far as permitted by law: (a) if we fail to deliver any paid-for service available via the SEN, our liability and your only remedy is (at our option) either re-providing the service or adding the amount you paid for the service to your SEN wallet; and (b) our liability and your only remedy in any other case is limited to -ú50 (or local currency equivalent) or, if higher, the amount of unused funds in your SEN wallet. So no, these agreements offer Sony/CCP no protection against claims made under consumer protection regulations. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1145
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 22:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. your name is after some strange place near Yeovil, I remember driving past it on the way Yeovil and thought "thats a weird place" and carried on driving. Yes it is, there are lots of weird village names around there that could be a futuristic merc (e.g. Toller Porcorum, Minterne Magna), I went with this one. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1146
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 23:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 7.3 wrote:A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision. So if a company provided misleading information, or presented information in a misleading way, regarding their product, with the result that consumers made purchases they otherwise would not, they are in breach of consumer protection regulations. Legal remedies include civil and criminal enforcement, which aim to: UK government guidance on the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, section 11.3 wrote:GÇó change the behaviour of the offender GÇó eliminate any financial gain or benefit from noncompliance GÇó be responsive and consider what is appropriate for the particular offender and regulatory issue GÇó be proportionate to the nature of the offence and the harm caused GÇó restore the harm caused by the regulatory noncompliance, where appropriate, and GÇó deter further non-compliance. The full UK government guidance is available here. Details on making a complaint are available here. Please note that there are similar regulations elsewhere in Europe as the UK simply follows EU consumer protection regulations. This relates to the selling of the product. The brief of DUST 514 is that it is a F2P FPS set within New Eden, which it meets perfectly. The brief for DUST 514 Origin Packs and Aurum Items is that they will provide you with in game items of a specific nature, which it meets perfectly. After that the Law has no more effect. What CCP choose to do with your money, or what they develop with it, is entirely their own perogative. If you are attempting to insuate that CCP tricked you into buying Aurum to support DUST when they were in matter of fact funding legion, please feel free to show documentation of CCP saying where the money from Aurum goes. At no point do they actually say Aurum sales in DUST go directly to DUST development. As much as I wanna kick CCP in the pants, please don't sound like such a self righteous ***** CCP stated on numerous occasions between October 2013 and April 2014 that they were 'laser-focused on PS3' and 'fully committed to development on Dust'. This lead people to purchase AUR in the reasonable expectation that there would be major content releases at least until the end of 2014. Thus, there is a case for saying that 'A misleading action occur[ed] [as] a practice mislead ... through the information it contain[ed] ... and cause[d] ... the average consumer to take a different decision'.
I have no idea where you're getting the notion that how CCP spends their money has anything to do with UK consumer protection regulations. They can put it in a swimming pool in Reykjavik and swim around in it as far as the law is concerned. What they cannot legally do, however, is get that money through misleading or deceiving UK customers in a way that affects their purchasing decisions.
I realize that it's a bit much to expect the CCP apologists to recognize basic legal distinctions, but can you at least try to read the posts you're responding to before you embarrass yourselves further. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1149
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
NomaDz 2K wrote:Beld Errmon wrote:Ah the second step in the Neckbeard rage cycle the "internet lawyer" phase, none of you are gunna do diddly about squat, though many of you are liers and will say anything while you are going through your neckbeard flow period, would be interested to see one shred of evidence that anyone has gotten a refund or done anything more then rant at a call centre chick about how PSN stole your redbull money. We are on about real laws which tutor consumers, people which purchase anything and demand satisfaction. If you don't stand up for your rights, soon you will find yourself without any. The fact that people in the past and present have obtained at least a PSN Refund is due to the way CCP handles their shady business. This goes to show that it's true and mark my words people will still get them unless CCP decides to change their marketing and PR practices. Was about to get on this but seems my paralegal/assistant pimp NomaDz already slapped your ***** ass down. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1150
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Posted - 2014.05.07 00:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Nothing was misleading about you spending 20 bucks for AUR. I'm going to bed now, but I'll leave a challenge for anyone who wants to come into this thread and dispute the basis for a claim under UK consumer protection regulations. Tell me which step of the following is false in your judgment:
1. Over the last several months CCP provided misleading information/deceptively presented information (e.g. 'laser-focused on PS3', 'fully committed to developing Dust'). 2. This resulted in consumers making different decisions than they otherwise would (e.g. to buy AUR). 3. Therefore, a misleading action has occurred and consumer protection regulations have been breached.
At the moment you guys are just swinging wildly, for instance conflating steps 1 and 2 like Michael Arck here, and not even starting to engage with the legal argument. Hopefully the above structure will help you to arrange your thoughts more coherently. |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1155
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Posted - 2014.05.07 00:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:This relates to the selling of the product.
The brief of DUST 514 is that it is a F2P FPS set within New Eden, which it meets perfectly. The brief for DUST 514 Origin Packs and Aurum Items is that they will provide you with in game items of a specific nature, which it meets perfectly.
After that the Law has no more effect. What CCP choose to do with your money, or what they develop with it, is entirely their own perogative. If you are attempting to insuate that CCP tricked you into buying Aurum to support DUST when they were in matter of fact funding legion, please feel free to show documentation of CCP saying where the money from Aurum goes.
At no point do they actually say Aurum sales in DUST go directly to DUST development. As much as I wanna kick CCP in the pants, please don't sound like such a self righteous ***** CCP stated on numerous occasions between October 2013 and April 2014 that they were 'laser-focused on PS3' and 'fully committed to development on Dust', which we now know was not the case. These statements lead people to purchase AUR in the reasonable expectation that there would be major content releases at least until the end of 2014. Thus, there is a case for saying that 'A misleading action occur[ed] [as] a practice mislead ... through the information it contain[ed] ... and cause[d] ... the average consumer to take a different decision'. I have no idea where you're getting the notion that how CCP spends their money has anything to do with UK consumer protection regulations. They can put it in a swimming pool in Reykjavik and swim around in it as far as the law is concerned. What they cannot legally do, however, is get that money through misleading or deceiving UK customers in a way that affects their purchasing decisions. I realize that it's a bit much to expect the CCP apologists to recognize basic legal distinctions, but can you at least try to read the posts you're responding to before you embarrass yourselves further. Once again you are assuming CCP are misleading you, which once again as far as the sale of Aurum goes, they did not do. By saying they were laser focuse on PS3 they did not trick you into buying aurum based on the assumption that the product was helping DUST, which is effectively what you are arguing. If they had however put on the poster "Support Dust Development by Buying Aurum" then you would have every right to say they were misleading you. But you bought a product/service that was exactly as advertised, you are effectively construding 2 intangible points together, I would very much enjoy seeing you try to actually take action agaibst CCP with this, but you and I both know you won't because you would be laughed out of the court. CCP telling me they were 'laser-focused' did not encourage me to buy Aurum, which is in exact contradiction with your statement, because both statements are infact opinions. If however this is because you want money back that you spent on DUST there is a SONY hotline you can call if someone would be kind enough to post it here. Otherwise don't forget to invite me along to the hearing (Ill bring lots of popcorn) P.S Read my intial reactions, I was just as unhappy as you are. Like Michael Arck above you are conflating steps 1 and 2 in the argument. See my previous post and tell me which step you are disputing.
PS really am going to bed now |
Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1164
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Phoned Sony. They said the US has already made a decision on Dust refunds (I got the impression that the decision was to refund). The EU has not but it is in their 'incident tracker', the lawyers are looking at it, and I will be told when a decision is made. Was expecting to have to make the consumer protection argument myself but they already know about it; the guy on the phone said the lawyers would be 'sweating bullets'. Have to say he was very helpful. Think Sony will be glad to see the back of CCP... |
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1164
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kaughst wrote:Tries and fails to grasp UK consumer protection regulations between bites of Cheetos found in neckbeard.
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1169
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kincate wrote:Yeah except CCP did not release any misleading information, they did not release any information. Besides you payed for items in a game. CCP said the game will continue on. What CCP does with the money you paid afterwards is not relavent. If they took all the money people paid and bought strippers and beer video tapped it and put it on the internet you as the consumer have not been mislead. So if they want to take the money they earned and use it to take half the development team away from one game and put them on another they can. How exactly have you been mislead? They repeatedly said they were 'laser-focused' or 'fully committed' to developing Dust when they were actually winding down development. Keeping the servers open Gëá development. Thus, they mislead people.
Furthermore, some people, like me, bought AUR on the basis of this misleading information. I would not have bought any AUR over the last six months had CCP been honest and said that major development was ending shortly.
As I've said before, it is irrelevant what CCP do with the money they bring in. What is relevant is whether they have mislead people in ways, such as the above, which impact their purchasing decisions.
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad.
1169
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
As enjoyable as it is laughing at people's total incomprehension of basic legal principles I have a pile of work to do. I won't be visiting these forums again until I hear back from Sony. |
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