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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
349
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Posted - 2014.05.06 15:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just watched it, and frankly it raises more questions than answers them.
There are several things he said that make very little sense.
First of all, CCP Z mentions that skills will be organized into "roles", to help new players find their way through the character development complexities. OK. Then he says that all items (weapons, modules...) will be made exclusive to a specific role. This means (as I understood it) that if you want to use nova knives, you'll have to start skilling up the scout role skill tree in order to unlock them. He also says that, once unlocked, you'll be able to use them on other dropsuits, not just scouts. The problem here is that there are certain types of items that are useful no matter what role you play. Armor plates for instance. If they are exclusive to a single role (sentinels seem like a good guess), this means that if you want to play an assault and fit armor plates, you'll have to skill up the heavy/sentinel tree just to be able to use them. This is not only tiresome, since it forces the player to skill for roles he possibly doesn't want to play, but also plain confusing! How is that helping NPE?
Also, he mentions that all dropsuits will be made as BPOs, meaning once you unlock them you'll have an infinite supply of them. He justifies this by claiming that dropsuits are essential as "emotional attachments" for a player. He goes so far as to say that (quote) "you're a mercenary, you don't exist as a person" (end quote), therefore your dropsuit(s) define who you are, so losing them is in some way "bad for immersion". This is IMHO a complete non-sequitur. Mercenaries are persons, just like accountants, dentists or lumberjacks. We do not play mindless drones. We play imaginary people (persons) who have the ability to transfer their consciousness into another clone (body). Dropsuits are, just like weapons, or even clones, only tools we use to get the job done. I've never looked at my DUST character as "not a person, but a mercenary", nor did I ever imagined that the dropsuits my character uses define him in any meaningful way. To further illustrate my point, I played EVE for 5 years, and I've never looked at my character as "a ship" or not even as "a capsule", but as a person who, due to some sci-fi gadgetry, has the ability to transfer consciousness and form mind-links with spaceships.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
356
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I wrote extensively about this subject in an open letter to CCP Rouge. I agree completely that this new system makes no sense. CCP Z got nearly everything wrong. If he pushes forward with this idea, Project Legion will suffer the same fate as Star Wars Galaxies after they nuked the progression system to make it "accessible." We need a much better UI, and the trees do need some re-architecting, but they need to keep the EVE style skill system.
I just read your letter and completely agree.
+1 and then some.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
361
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Omg are you guys for real like really you that dense you could follow what he is doing. Jesus Dust514 is living example of why devs should do their own thing.
Anyone who thinks they didnt pay attention to feedback was paying attention to the wider communty.
I support Zs idea we get to keep same level of customisation in our fittings while making it a lot more newb friendly
OK, again. If I have to skill into sentinel role skill tree just to be able to use basic stuff like armor plates, but I have no interest to play sentinels at all, how is that newb friendly?
CCP Z was very specific about that particular topic. ALL items will be exclusive to a specific "role". He even said they put the commando dropsuit "on ice" because it uses all the weapons the assault uses, and since they insist on sticking with the exclusivity of items to roles, they don't know what to do with the commando.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
377
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:I watched the whole EVE: Legion progression presentation. It was well thought out and gives us everything we've been asking for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxhrGVv0NuQFor those of you who don't get it, I recommend you watch it again. CCP Z explains the reasoning behind everything. There is no excuse for pretending the planed progression system doesn't make sense when every part of it is explained to you.
I'm sorry, but sentences like "I don't like the name..." or "I'm not a fan of..." do not qualify as reasoning. They qualify as subjective opinions / personal preferences.
Also, I really don't recall that anyone from the community ever asked for removal of 1-5 skill system, organizing skills into "roles", making skills exclusive to any particular role or making all dropsuits as BPOs.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
390
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Kovinis Sparagas wrote:I'd say just go and copy-paste EVE skill tree. This game lasts for 11 years, and don't confuse new players. Also it will speed up Legion development if you don't need to invent new stuff (and let's be honest - we want it in our HDD as fast as possible) Every time I start thinking I'm beyond being shocked at the things people say, someone goes and reminds me that sometimes, you just can't anticipate what will come out of another person's mouth (or their keyboard). Kovinis Sparagas wrote:EVE ... don't confuse new players. You might want to take a look here and here. Totally friendly to new people... 
EVE's skill system for sure isn't the most noob friendly the world has ever witnessed. However, there are a few things you need to be aware of. First, the "inaccessibility" of EVE to noobs isn't just because of the complex skill system. I'd say that skill system isn't even on top of the list in that regard. Second, you simply cannot create a skill system that will be instantly graspable even to some halfwit, and still be able to last for a decade.
This leads to a simple question: What is the "target audience" for EVE: Legion? Does CCP really want to compete with titles like COD and BF, or do they want to attract a somewhat different audience? One that can withstand the pain of reading a couple of wiki pages occasionally, in order to make an informed choice in a game they want to play.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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George Moros
Balkan Express Squad
393
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Fox Gaden:
I very much disliked DUST skills which had no other purpose other than unlocking higher tier gear. Especially so due to the 1/3/5 unlock mechanic which made leveling to level 2 and 4 completely meaningless. However, I disagree with you that it's difficult to "invent" a built-in bonus for each skill. Even a 1% bonus in some uncritical attribute is still an incentive to level up a skill. For instance, Dropsuit Command skill could give you a 1% movement speed bonus (per level) to all dropsuits, and you can simply reduce all dropsuit base speeds by 5%, to make things more-less same as before.
I am too strongly against skills that do nothing except unlock higher tier gear. This smells too much like a WoW-clone skill system, which I strongly detest.
I can't shake the impression that devs are wasting their precious time trying to completely rethink systems that were at their core good, rather then rethinking systems that were in dire need of that.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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