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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 00:46:00 -
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Lord Vyper wrote: So while I completely respect your post. Dust players are not forced to spend money at all. You guys chose to do that. You have access to all the same content but just didnt want to wait for it. I say this as an early Beta Dust player to now. Eve players have been going thru this for a decade so the cries for help tend to fall on tone deaf ears. Any money spent on a free to play game should be considered disposable income. Something you could live without. If you are purchasing with any other frame of mind you are deluding yourself. If EVE 2 ever came out I would fully expect to start with nothing. I would have to decide if it was worth it to me. What new features are coming? Do I own the platform? Is it worth buying it I don't. CCP is a game Developer not your parents. Their business staying afloat is always going to be a priority over gamers feelings. Enjoy Dust for what it is now or don't play it.All of you guys have put time and effort into a game that was a shell of what it was promised to be. Do you consider that wasted? If so why did you continue to play instead of waiting for the game to evolve into what you wanted it to be. The drop in a bucket amount of revenue that players put into Dust is nothing compared to what actual shareholders and investors put into it. CCP will always look out for that group of people first because it allows them to eat and have homes.
Dust is just a game. You had fun playing it. Unless you prepaid for features that were never developed you are just along for the ride like the rest of us in Eve's Universe. The sandbox just got shook. Are you gonna dust yourself off and put on your bigboy pants or pull the plug on your clones and fade into debris? Keep playing Dust and give feedback on shaping the next game or rage about it and quit. Its your time and money use it better than this.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 00:58:00 -
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Indeed. It covers both sides of the coin when dealing with current arguments on the forums
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:05:00 -
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Hakyou Brutor wrote:We bought the Aurum/Packs under the impression that we will be playing this game for longer than two years.
Had I known that my boosters were pointless I would have never bought a single aurum pack.
You bought AUR packs for entertainment purposes only. Nowhere is it listed or stated that buying AUR packs guarantees that Dust will continue to be develop. That is something that you thought and you were wrong in that.
And c'mon, you bought an AUR pack to boost skillpoint gain. Nothing more and nothing less
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:08:00 -
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One Eyed King wrote:The conditions under which many people spent money were either misrepresented, or changed without our knowledge.
If you are paying for something you think will be around for years to come on a console, and you find out otherwise AFTER already having spent the money, you would be rightfully upset.
People are not getting what they thought they were paying for (a game with a commitment to a playstation console). Stop trying to defend people who argue there is no reason to be angry. There are legitimate reasons for people to be upset.
So you buy a donut expecting the company to stay there for 5 years and if they go out of business in a week, you're entitled to get your money back because you bought the donut not to consume but to keep the business going?
The items you bought by AUR were consumed. You got what you paid for. It didn't say in the PSN, "buying this will guarantee that Dust will continue its 10 year plan". That's an incorrect assumption on your part.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:11:00 -
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Well, the post I have in the OP was not to "1 up" those who are upset or to cheer on ones who view it differently than the majority.
All the BS aside, I think he brought up some good points that are worth considering on both sides of argument.
I have read only a few constructive, unbiased opinions that look at the situation for what it is and give an honest assessment.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:17:00 -
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bigolenuts wrote:Michael Arck wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The conditions under which many people spent money were either misrepresented, or changed without our knowledge.
If you are paying for something you think will be around for years to come on a console, and you find out otherwise AFTER already having spent the money, you would be rightfully upset.
People are not getting what they thought they were paying for (a game with a commitment to a playstation console). Stop trying to defend people who argue there is no reason to be angry. There are legitimate reasons for people to be upset. So you buy a donut expecting the company to stay there for 5 years and if they go out of business in a week, you're entitled to get your money back because you bought the donut not to consume but to keep the business going? The items you bought by AUR were consumed. You got what you paid for. It didn't say in the PSN, "buying this will guarantee that Dust will continue its 10 year plan". That's an incorrect assumption on your part. not an assumption when the company tells you that they are going to be around with said game. Are you new here?
Are you new at life? Do you pay the bills at your house or mom and dad does? Because I don't know about you, but I got what I paid for. I paid 20 bucks to 23K AUR. I got that. Do I want a refund? No. I have used it and currently still use my AUR. I didn't buy for a guarantee that the game would continue development. Hell, you weren't even sitting down in a room with CCP to have that discussion ("Look, I'm only buying this because I want this game to keep thriving").
You bought AUR to boost skill and to have access to items. Now that the show seems to be over, you're looking at things that will allow to you to take pot shots. It's wrong.
It's the same thing as relationships. People break up and then all of sudden they want all their gifts back. That's just wrong. It's the same thing happening here.
You paid real world money to buy entertainment. Entertainment that you have received. In today's age and the apparent intelligence of some people, just how in the hell you thought buying AUR secured the life expectancy of your game?
Especially on last gen's console in 2014 which is the year that rise of next gen's library is imminent?
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:21:00 -
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One Eyed King wrote:Michael Arck wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The conditions under which many people spent money were either misrepresented, or changed without our knowledge.
If you are paying for something you think will be around for years to come on a console, and you find out otherwise AFTER already having spent the money, you would be rightfully upset.
People are not getting what they thought they were paying for (a game with a commitment to a playstation console). Stop trying to defend people who argue there is no reason to be angry. There are legitimate reasons for people to be upset. So you buy a donut expecting the company to stay there for 5 years and if they go out of business in a week, you're entitled to get your money back because you bought the donut not to consume but to keep the business going? The items you bought by AUR were consumed. You got what you paid for. It didn't say in the PSN, "buying this will guarantee that Dust will continue its 10 year plan". That's an incorrect assumption on your part. I buy a donut expecting a donut. I expect the donut to be relatively fresh, and have the basic characteristics of a donut (sugary, doughy etc). If I am buying a donut, and have been told it is a donut, and am handed a bagel, then I have right to be upset. CCP stated they were laser focus on the PS3. Many people spent time and bought boosters because they believed they would be able to leverage those skill points in the future on the PS3, and logically the PS4. Likewise, people spent time on the game believing their was a commitment to the game, directly because of CCPs past statements. I am wondering if the parts of your brain that can empathize with others is working correctly, or if you are just a troll.
Except that when you made that transaction, you got a donut. It wasn't promised to be the greatest donut. It wasn't promised to be just out of the oven 10 seconds ago. You got a donut.
So your argument doesn't make sense really. You paid real world money for in game items that you have allocated to your account. Did you not receive those items? If no, then yes you have an argument. But you received those items. You have used and probably still use those items. That's a black and white transaction there.
If you cannot see this, then you sir, have the scorned gf syndrome. I understand you're upset about the situation but the "I've spent money on this game!" arguments are rather weak and don't really deal with the truth of the matter
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:30:00 -
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One Eyed King wrote:People spent time and money on a game CCP had said was committed to the PS3.
They got a game that, just months after release, was secretly moving to the PC and weren't told about the facts for months.
Those two things are contradictory. They are not the same. No amount of wordsmithing can make them the same.
CCP made a commitment.
People spent money based on that commitment.
CCP reneged on that comittment.
End of story.
So you accuse me of "wordsmithing" but you believe that you've been scammed out of your money? I'm only doing what I have done since I arrived on these forums, speaking the truth and common sense.
Lord Vyper wrote: So while I completely respect your post. Dust players are not forced to spend money at all. You guys chose to do that. You have access to all the same content but just didnt want to wait for it. I say this as an early Beta Dust player to now.
It's truly unfortunate. I don't think anybody read the quote in its entirety. All they reading is "you QQers need to stop QQing".
Strange, when you read the quote. He says something for my side of the argument and for theirs. No one sees that though because they blinded by negativity.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:37:00 -
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bigolenuts wrote:Also, buying Aur in my mind was not securing the future of the game, but I was pretty sure the money was spent wisely on Dust514. You know, it's like buying your gas at the same store time and time again. You give them your business so that they have an income to try an stay afloat.
Does that even register in what little brain you have?
You know you keep throwing your little shots at me. But I know its because you lack any rebuttal that is significant enough to quiet me.
Here's what my "little brain" has registered. You're comparing a game to a necessity. I brought up donut because its a sweet, something that you don't necessarily have to have, like entertainment. The gas store analogy is poor because everybody needs gas. You don't come around, they got thousands of other folks who will supply them with business.
So your analogy doesn't work correctly.
Yet and still, you fail to understand that if it isn't in writing then what you are doing is based on "good faith". Which means, it is not guaranteed that the results you get is what you desired but still you must understand the post effects if you do act on "good faith".
Please, lets keep this discussion clean instead of trying to attack characters here. Forum wars means nothing and its stupid. Think about your response and respond to me. I have no problem with constructive arguments that have merits.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:38:00 -
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bigolenuts wrote:BioClone Ax-45 wrote:Hey! I bough Defiance and now its going to F2P...
I wanna a refund!
...You get it right? Did you buy Defiance with the promise that it would be around for 10 years? Were you told by the developers that they were laser focused on bringing Defiance to the PS3 as a full game? you understand?
So you really expected Dust to be around for 10 years when the PS3/X360 generation was coming to a close and even remarked as being one of the longest generations that needs to end?
C'mon, you're smarter than that.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:41:00 -
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tastzlike chicken wrote:What is it about that quote that you found interesting?
LOL I think the underline says what. But I know what you're saying in reality though. Sucks you're missing the point like so many...
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:44:00 -
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Beld Errmon wrote:Michael Arck wrote: I'm only doing what I have done since I arrived on these forums, speaking the truth and common sense.
Thank you for doing so, the sheer volume of BS being peddled by the butt hurt is just amazing, this subject stands out at the front of the load they are spewing, dust wasn't funded by some crowd sourcing initiative and I doubt its even made a profit from all these "donations" that ppl have handed out, I'm sure someone could estimate the costs involved in dusts staff, assets and bills, our aur purchases probably don't even put a dent in it.
I'm glad you posted that. We need more constructive, truthful posts instead of what I've been seeing around here lately. And this has been going on, for what, about a year now? The subject changes, the execution and the frequency of it is still same around here.
I know I will see you on the battlefield if Legion gets the green. Look forward to that.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:48:00 -
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bigolenuts wrote:Michael Arck wrote:bigolenuts wrote:Also, buying Aur in my mind was not securing the future of the game, but I was pretty sure the money was spent wisely on Dust514. You know, it's like buying your gas at the same store time and time again. You give them your business so that they have an income to try an stay afloat.
Does that even register in what little brain you have? You know you keep throwing your little shots at me. But I know its because you lack any rebuttal that is significant enough to quiet me. Here's what my "little brain" has registered. You're comparing a game to a necessity. I brought up donut because its a sweet, something that you don't necessarily have to have, like entertainment. The gas store analogy is poor because everybody needs gas. You don't come around, they got thousands of other folks who will supply them with business. So your analogy doesn't work correctly. Yet and still, you fail to understand that if it isn't in writing then what you are doing is based on "good faith". Which means, it is not guaranteed that the results you get is what you desired but still you must understand the post effects if you do act on "good faith". Please, lets keep this discussion clean instead of trying to attack characters here. Forum wars means nothing and its stupid. Think about your response and respond to me. I have no problem with constructive arguments that have merits. I believe you started the "little shots". I said exactly what I was thinking and you asked if lived life and did my mom and dad pay my bills? Let me guess, that is not taking a shot? No, gas is not a necessity. Don't believe me? Ask someone who doesn't have a car. My analogy is spot on. It's not about WHAT they are providing, it is that they ARE providing. My responses are pretty much cookie cutter at this point. It is the same thing in every thread. My opinion has not changed nor has what it would take for me to play Legion.
C'mon bigole, the "are you new here" is silly. And I was being serious when I asked if mommy and daddy paid your bills because I don't know how an adult, in this situation, does not understand that buying AUR was for entertainment purposes only.
I'm not here to change your opinion. That wasn't the point of thread. The quote speaks to both supporters and non supporters. I underlined what I felt is important but the entire quote is worth considering for both sides.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 01:51:00 -
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bigolenuts wrote:Michael Arck wrote:bigolenuts wrote:Michael Arck wrote:bigolenuts wrote:Also, buying Aur in my mind was not securing the future of the game, but I was pretty sure the money was spent wisely on Dust514. You know, it's like buying your gas at the same store time and time again. You give them your business so that they have an income to try an stay afloat.
Does that even register in what little brain you have? You know you keep throwing your little shots at me. But I know its because you lack any rebuttal that is significant enough to quiet me. Here's what my "little brain" has registered. You're comparing a game to a necessity. I brought up donut because its a sweet, something that you don't necessarily have to have, like entertainment. The gas store analogy is poor because everybody needs gas. You don't come around, they got thousands of other folks who will supply them with business. So your analogy doesn't work correctly. Yet and still, you fail to understand that if it isn't in writing then what you are doing is based on "good faith". Which means, it is not guaranteed that the results you get is what you desired but still you must understand the post effects if you do act on "good faith". Please, lets keep this discussion clean instead of trying to attack characters here. Forum wars means nothing and its stupid. Think about your response and respond to me. I have no problem with constructive arguments that have merits. I believe you started the "little shots". I said exactly what I was thinking and you asked if lived life and did my mom and dad pay my bills? Let me guess, that is not taking a shot? No, gas is not a necessity. Don't believe me? Ask someone who doesn't have a car. My analogy is spot on. It's not about WHAT they are providing, it is that they ARE providing. My responses are pretty much cookie cutter at this point. It is the same thing in every thread. My opinion has not changed nor has what it would take for me to play Legion. C'mon bigole, the "are you new here" is silly. And I was being serious when I asked if mommy and daddy paid your bills because I don't know how an adult, in this situation, does not understand that buying AUR was for entertainment purposes only. I'm not here to change your opinion. That wasn't the point of thread. The quote speaks to both supporters and non supporters. I underlined what I felt is important but the entire quote is worth considering for both sides. I was entertained, no doubt. I spent money that I could still be entertained with years down the road. How can an adult not understand that? I've not even said I was unhappy with the direction of the game. You have to be trolling at this point to not understand.
No sir, you were trolling.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 02:51:00 -
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xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Michael Arck wrote:bigolenuts wrote:Michael Arck wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The conditions under which many people spent money were either misrepresented, or changed without our knowledge.
If you are paying for something you think will be around for years to come on a console, and you find out otherwise AFTER already having spent the money, you would be rightfully upset.
People are not getting what they thought they were paying for (a game with a commitment to a playstation console). Stop trying to defend people who argue there is no reason to be angry. There are legitimate reasons for people to be upset. So you buy a donut expecting the company to stay there for 5 years and if they go out of business in a week, you're entitled to get your money back because you bought the donut not to consume but to keep the business going? The items you bought by AUR were consumed. You got what you paid for. It didn't say in the PSN, "buying this will guarantee that Dust will continue its 10 year plan". That's an incorrect assumption on your part. not an assumption when the company tells you that they are going to be around with said game. Are you new here? Are you new at life? Do you pay the bills at your house or mom and dad does? Because I don't know about you, but I got what I paid for. I paid 20 bucks for 23K AUR. I got that. Do I want a refund? No. I have used it and currently still use my AUR. I didn't buy for a guarantee that the game would continue development. Hell, you weren't even sitting down in a room with CCP to have that discussion ("Look, I'm only buying this because I want this game to keep thriving"). You bought AUR to boost skill and to have access to items. Now that the show seems to be over, you're looking at things that will allow to you to take pot shots. It's wrong. It's the same thing as relationships. People break up and then all of sudden they want all their gifts back. That's just wrong. It's the same thing happening here. You paid real world money to buy entertainment. Entertainment that you have received. In today's age and the apparent intelligence of some people, just how in the hell you thought buying AUR secured the life expectancy of your game? Especially on last gen's console in 2014 which is the year that rise of next gen's library is imminent? Because "we're laser focused on ps3", "we'll set dust514 core first, then we'll move it to ps4" things. It's our fault if we invested in a dream? probably yes. If Dust514 was going to be totally scrapped I would even understand that **** happens. But that's not what's happening. They are coming out with 2 more titles. One of them is even multi platform. What's the point in betraying console community? It's just going to create bad advertisement.
You invested into a entertainment package. All the gushy feelings aside, we willingly played a game on last gen's tech. On a console whose successor is currently on store shelves.
This is the understanding I came to after I left the dust settle concerning the keynote.
And why people keep saying "betrayed". Alot of you guys are playing too heavy on the violin. Lay off.
I just see things differently I guess. I was asked by my corpmates if I was mad. Told him I am indifferent, in which I am. I don't know, life is pretty good and I'm not taking this game seriously. There are many games that I have loved and wished to keep on going, alas its 2014 and there time is over or I have moved on.
Of all the things that is happening in this world, the last thing I want to do is waste my energy on getting mad about a game that I have very well got my entertainment value and then some. It's not that serious.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 02:59:00 -
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Zahle Undt wrote:You can essentially say it is the fault of any victim of a con artist for being foolish enough to be conned. I accept my part of the blame for spending money on Dust 514 because I bought in on CCPs vision and wanted to support that (plus I liked BPO stuff). However, just because the victim shares some of the blame for gullibility it doesn't make the con artist (in this case CCP) any less guilty or any less of a scumbag. And most importantly once one discovers they have been conned, they are extra stupid if they let the same person con them again especially with the same con.
That is how I feel about this situation, I haven't called Sony asking for refunds, I just realize I got taken by CCP and I'm not going to allow them to do it again. I am also going to let other gamers here or in other gaming forums know I feel CCP are con men, why I feel they are, and try to dissuade them for falling for the same thing.
And yea it is. I'm from Brooklyn, New York. Cons are everywhere. In fact, we all should have raised our eyebrows when they said they have a 10 year plan for Dust on a console that is on its dying legs.
Like I told whitedevil, life is pretty good that I don't need to waste my energy on getting mad about what has transpired. They didn't con me for I choose to pay for AUR. It wasn't forced upon me (since folks keep forgetting the OP, which states this also) and I had a choice that I could continue playing this game free of charge. Or I could put money into a game.
Let's rewind that back...
Or I could put money into a GAME
Not something where I see my returns. Not something tangible. A simple game is what I put my money into for fake money and items I can't even go in my own closest and pull out.
Like the quote in the OP, this should be understood that the money you're spending is disposable income.
I got what I wanted from Dust and though I expected more, its still not enough for me to throw mud on it. I had and still have a great time in Dust.
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Michael Arck
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Posted - 2014.05.06 03:25:00 -
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Some people have the capability in understanding others, looking at the better side instead of choosing to allow a video game to disrupt their peace.
We are all human. EVE has had its ups and downs as well. So I remember those things they experienced so that when this happened, its not all too shocking.
CCP isn't the only ones who "lied" here either. It seems the majority of the community lied too. In an odd way, I have never seen so many mercs express their love of this game since they announced the keynote. These are mostly made of the same mercs who said this game was dying and calling it a pos
And to be truthful, if they showcased 1.9, people would still find something negative to talk about.
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Posted - 2014.05.06 03:28:00 -
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Harold Junk wrote:Great, some quote from... some dude? I assume an EVE player who's never played this game. Or you could be quoting yourself for props? Whatever.
Hey, they sold this game as an MMO, and since they were a developer of a long-running, successful MMO, we expected we had some right to our accounts and our progress, so long as it didn't lose massive amounts of money, and that there would be advance notice so that people wouldn't invest further into something that was being killed off. Sure, lots of garbage MMO's will be cancelled by devs with no compensation to the players, but then these same devs make another game and you tell us it will be different this time so everybody climb aboard? And we're being unreasonable? Marvelous.
That is the bare minimum I expected: advance notice that development would stop, so we would know that further progression would be pointless because the game would die soon after. I don't think that's an unreasonable to expect that from them while they are trying to sell me ANOTHER IDENTICAL MMO, but they decided to milk us for most of a year instead. Man I find it just shocking that these actions don't give the players here more pause.
I really hope you don't have much attachment to your characters, because if CCP decides that they will sell to more people by axing all of your progress, they will do it, and they will lie to your face as they do it. They have proven that.
I think this is just stage one, mark my words. They will use vets to hype Legion, then they will nerf your characters so that new players are more favoured, and after all the arguments you all have been making against us "haters", you will have no choice but to whine and cry and be hypocrites, or shut your mouth and take another load of their bullcrap excuses. How can you believe they won't do it to you? They did it to us, and there are more of us than you.
So posted a quote expecting me to read yours but you haven't even read the OP? He states he's been involved with Dust since beta.
Hey, I like his post better than Maken Tosch trying to cause riots on EVE forums because he mad about what has transpired.
I respect mature, constructive opinions. Whether it agrees with my points or not. And again, for the umpteenth time, he says something that goes for both sides of the argument.
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