DUST Search - Tried KB/M today....

Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:

No it doesn't work. And yes it has been tried. Many times. Just try to use a turret with KB/M in Dust to see how utterly ridiculous that idea is.

What you need to realise is is that where you point your mouse is where you look. Limiting the speed at which you can look somewhere will always feel like **** and isn't realistic either. The only way to do what you want is to decouple look from aim, i.e. you point your mouse to look somewhere, then the weapon rotation slowly follows. I believe that also has been tried and discarded because it feels pretty crappy.

Ultimately, game feel is the most important aspect, much much more important than realism and even more important than strategy. If a game has no strategy at all but a good game feel, it's still going to be fun. If a game has tons of strategy but feels crappy, then nobody will enjoy it.

Game designers aren't idiots, and a ton of stuff is being tried that you never see because it simply doesn't hold up in playtesting. Players aren't idiots either, and just because they want their shooting mechanics to feel good, doesn't mean that they are opposed to strategy. Games like Quake deathmatch involve a ton of strategic decisions and Dust obviously isn't completely devoid of strategy either just because you can turn around instantly (and yes you can, there is a delay in the mouse input that makes everything feel sluggish, but overall turn speed does not seem to be capped at all at least for medium and light suits).


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 105	Posted - 2014.05.05 22:32:00 - [1] - Quote Whatever they do for K/BM controls, they should absolutely not listen to PC gamers or emulate other shooters. (Counterstrike and Unreal are ***** awful). I can use both just fine, but games are way too soft with the K/BM. I'd love to see turn speed related to character weight, or for full realism, tuned to the weapon. Pistoleers turn 1:1 and HMG users gotta swing that *** to turn around at all. But FPS players console or PC usually hate any kind of strategy or playstyles different from point and click so it'll never happen.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 106	Posted - 2014.05.05 22:51:00 - [2] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Jotun Izalaru wrote: Whatever they do for K/BM controls, they should absolutely not listen to PC gamers or emulate other shooters. (Counterstrike and Unreal are ***** awful). I can use both just fine, but games are way too soft with the K/BM. I'd love to see turn speed related to character weight, or for full realism, tuned to the weapon. Pistoleers turn 1:1 and HMG users gotta swing that *** to turn around at all. But FPS players console or PC usually hate any kind of strategy or playstyles different from point and click so it'll never happen. In fact its basically a crime for you to generalise so that leads me to believe that whole post is one troll, 10/10. Both trolling and my honest opinion. But, of course, I have to be terrible to suggest something other than glorious 1:1 mouse controls for weaksauce mouse users. It can't be that I just want a game that rewards a bit of forethought and puts a bit of weight to moving a gun around instead of the entirely skill-devoid action of pointing a mouse and clicking. I'll admit when I said I can use both I wasn't talking about Dust though. I don't even own a USB kb/m set.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 112	Posted - 2014.05.06 04:44:00 - [3] - Quote WhataguyTTU wrote: Lol whaaaa? I thought goons would be all over MKB. =S well, we're not all the same person i have no real care if the input is KB/M or controller or whatever. I guess I kind of prefer controller maybe. I don't want to see typical KB/M controls though, because they're too easy. Everybody who wants good KB/M wants that edge of 1:1 mouse controls because once you're down to 'point and click' you don't have to use your brain much anymore. This kind of applies to high sensitivity controllers too but swinging around wildly on a controller does require skill. (still a really dumb mechanic though) I'm also against instant button push = action. Not for say, firing a weapon, but weapon switching, changing your movement and jumping should take a bit of wind-up (and Dust gets some of this right and some wrong like every other FPS). So it seems I slant heavily toward controllers because console FPS are more likely to have that sort of control scheme, but there's no reason KB/M can't feel the same way, it's just ingrained into PC FPS mentality that that point and click nonsense is how it should be. They need their crutch, I guess
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 113	Posted - 2014.05.06 20:48:00 - [4] - Quote Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: No it doesn't work. And yes it has been tried. Many times. Just try to use a turret with KB/M in Dust to see how utterly ridiculous that idea is. What you need to realise is is that where you point your mouse is where you look. Limiting the speed at which you can look somewhere will always feel like ** and isn't realistic either. The only way to do what you want is to decouple look from aim, i.e. you point your mouse to look somewhere, then the weapon rotation slowly follows. I believe that also has been tried and discarded because it feels pretty crappy. Ultimately, game feel is the most important aspect, much much more important than realism and even more important than strategy. If a game has no strategy at all but a good game feel, it's still going to be fun. If a game has tons of strategy but feels crappy, then nobody will enjoy it. Game designers aren't idiots, and a ton of stuff is being tried that you never see because it simply doesn't hold up in playtesting. Players aren't idiots either, and just because they want their shooting mechanics to feel good, doesn't mean that they are opposed to strategy. Games like Quake deathmatch involve a ton of strategic decisions and Dust obviously isn't completely devoid of strategy either just because you can turn around instantly (and yes you can, there is a delay in the mouse input that makes everything feel sluggish, but overall turn speed does not seem to be capped at all at least for medium and light suits). Just because Dust botched it doesn't mean it can't be done. The feel of a controller in Dust is above average - emulating that feeling on a keyboard while maintaining the limitation is ideal. No, game 'feel' is not the most important thing. Any time 1:1 mouse control is removed people will *** about the 'feel' but that's not because the game is bad, they've just been spoiled by ease of use. The current formula for mouse controls is just as bad as all the other 'failed' attempts you say have happened, it just persists because it's easy and lets people turn off their brain. (console shooters are guilty of this too, see CoD with a controller) There is literally nothing easier than pointing at something and clicking. That's why computers use mice for everything. Basically where you see 'good feel' i see 'too easy' and no game (definitely not Quake lol) has ever taken 'too easy' and made it a compelling experience in a mental way.