DUST Search - Rational Discourse

Jason Punk wrote:

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

I mostly agree. People would be angry, rightfully so, if they bought a console or were console only with the cross-over to PC. That is lame and the "laser focused" thing is insulting but it is a likely necessary tax for DUST to become what it was supposed to be. However, DUST 514 keynote, progression, and sandbox talks were all about Legion and Legion was billed as a separate product. "Mah SP! Mah AUR!" are the most obvious questions and they were not answered immediately (hell, they are still wishy-washy).

DUST 514 is dead in my eye, at least the idea that it was going to be this big epic thing. It will become a basic arcade shooter with minimal to no support and I will not be surprised if it is totally dead 6 months after Legion is released. The idea of this big epic, sprawling thing is not dead though; the goal post just moved in the most insulting way possible.

The damage done is done entirely to the community of DUST 514. Put a way that anyone can understand, even if they want to do the "mommy loves me more!" thing: CCP has ignored, insulted, and genuinely not cared about their customers.

I can understand this, I felt very similarly. But I would argue that while there would not doubt be the feeling of betrayal for the console-only crowd, it would certainly be less-justified. This was going to happen. Either to the PS4 or the PC. no less than $400 was going to be necessary to participate in this hardware evolution and if you had expectations to the contrary, they were delusional.

Execution and lack of social tact in presenting this reality are absolutely justifiable means of anger, however. The results are rather equitable.

1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG. Be polite, they want to refund you!

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Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.05.05 06:53:00 - [1] - Quote I'm glad to see some discussion coming back in a few little pockets on the forums, but the remaining anger and fear is well deserved. *I encourage giving Kondor Pendragon's Thread a good read:* https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2133801#post2133801 Personally I'm going to hold off on a final call until the CPM concludes their meeting with CCP this week. There is however a very real tragedy to be observed in all of this. There is virtually nothing in CCP's current docket of information that should have been negative. The community was well aware that this was an inevitable development in the Dust 514's life; The PS3 was a well-depreciated platform and future visions of the game were exponential. This was the duality from the beginning, and not even a particularly fatal one either. All it meant was that, at some point in the future of the game, there was going to be a bridge into new hardware. You could call this beta testers or simply the transfer from CoH1 to CoH2. There's nothing about this that should have come as a shock and there were very simple methods of eloquently highlighting these facts from previous discourse and promises through CCP. Hell, it only required 3 steps...I'll even make a little Goal-Chart.... 1. Affirmation (Fun and New Features) ----> 2. Transition Process (Timeline) ----> 3. Project Legion/Future (Vision Casting) None of this damage was even remotely necessary. Start by affirming and reflecting with the playerbase (videos, stories, 1 year of Dust things). Follow that up with a strong portfollio of upcoming Dust 514 features and updates with a hint of Project Legion. Announcing Legion would then bring some kind of awe followed by the needs and methods of transition to (at least) the PC if not possibly the PS4. Lastly, finish strong with the kind of things to expect in Legion and clear up any possible confusion to be had between the two with a final reaffirmation of the community and a lean towards the progressive potential of the next year. The Keynote and much of Fanfest would have been exciting and looking towards a bold future with new possibilities to look forward to and essentially fulfill the reason for spending $1400+ to attend fanfest or a $20 HD Stream. People get drunk, celebrate, dance, and get tattoos here damn it all...Nobody wants to spend their time with damage control and an empty stomach after all that. It's a long-dead horse, but I don't think I've ever seen a more careless abuse of good news. I certainly don't think it's dead and if anything, we'll all just become bitter bunnies in Legion, forming the kind of generation X of Eve Legion. Not dead, just carelessly scared. <3 Punk "Berfore I go into a fleet com, I pour libations to the gods of lag and server stability." ~ Alex Bruneau
Joseph Ridgeson warravens Final Resolution. 1607	Posted - 2014.05.05 07:01:00 - [2] - Quote I mostly agree. People would be angry, rightfully so, if they bought a console or were console only with the cross-over to PC. That is lame and the "laser focused" thing is insulting but it is a likely necessary tax for DUST to become what it was supposed to be. However, DUST 514 keynote, progression, and sandbox talks were all about Legion and Legion was billed as a separate product. "Mah SP! Mah AUR!" are the most obvious questions and they were not answered immediately (hell, they are still wishy-washy). DUST 514 is dead in my eye, at least the idea that it was going to be this big epic thing. It will become a basic arcade shooter with minimal to no support and I will not be surprised if it is totally dead 6 months after Legion is released. The idea of this big epic, sprawling thing is not dead though; the goal post just moved in the most insulting way possible. The damage done is done entirely to the community of DUST 514. Put a way that anyone can understand, even if they want to do the "mommy loves me more!" thing: CCP has ignored, insulted, and genuinely not cared about their customers.
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.05.05 07:08:00 - [3] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I mostly agree. People would be angry, rightfully so, if they bought a console or were console only with the cross-over to PC. That is lame and the "laser focused" thing is insulting but it is a likely necessary tax for DUST to become what it was supposed to be. However, DUST 514 keynote, progression, and sandbox talks were all about Legion and Legion was billed as a separate product. "Mah SP! Mah AUR!" are the most obvious questions and they were not answered immediately (hell, they are still wishy-washy). DUST 514 is dead in my eye, at least the idea that it was going to be this big epic thing. It will become a basic arcade shooter with minimal to no support and I will not be surprised if it is totally dead 6 months after Legion is released. The idea of this big epic, sprawling thing is not dead though; the goal post just moved in the most insulting way possible. The damage done is done entirely to the community of DUST 514. Put a way that anyone can understand, even if they want to do the "mommy loves me more!" thing: CCP has ignored, insulted, and genuinely not cared about their customers. I can understand this, I felt very similarly. But I would argue that while there would not doubt be the feeling of betrayal for the console-only crowd, it would certainly be less-justified. This was going to happen. Either to the PS4 or the PC. no less than $400 was going to be necessary to participate in this hardware evolution and if you had expectations to the contrary, they were delusional. Execution and lack of social tact in presenting this reality are absolutely justifiable means of anger, however. The results are rather equitable. "Berfore I go into a fleet com, I pour libations to the gods of lag and server stability." ~ Alex Bruneau
Mary Lilac Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 129	Posted - 2014.05.05 07:20:00 - [4] - Quote Jason Punk wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I mostly agree. People would be angry, rightfully so, if they bought a console or were console only with the cross-over to PC. That is lame and the "laser focused" thing is insulting but it is a likely necessary tax for DUST to become what it was supposed to be. However, DUST 514 keynote, progression, and sandbox talks were all about Legion and Legion was billed as a separate product. "Mah SP! Mah AUR!" are the most obvious questions and they were not answered immediately (hell, they are still wishy-washy). DUST 514 is dead in my eye, at least the idea that it was going to be this big epic thing. It will become a basic arcade shooter with minimal to no support and I will not be surprised if it is totally dead 6 months after Legion is released. The idea of this big epic, sprawling thing is not dead though; the goal post just moved in the most insulting way possible. The damage done is done entirely to the community of DUST 514. Put a way that anyone can understand, even if they want to do the "mommy loves me more!" thing: CCP has ignored, insulted, and genuinely not cared about their customers. I can understand this, I felt very similarly. But I would argue that while there would not doubt be the feeling of betrayal for the console-only crowd, it would certainly be less-justified. This was going to happen. Either to the PS4 or the PC. no less than $400 was going to be necessary to participate in this hardware evolution and if you had expectations to the contrary, they were delusional. Execution and lack of social tact in presenting this reality are absolutely justifiable means of anger, however. The results are rather equitable. No one believe Dust 514 was going to be on the Ps3 forever, actually most people were hoping for Dust 514 to move to the Ps4. NO ONE wanted Dust 514 to be shelved and then a do-over to be made on the PC, to be lied to about the future of Dust 514, and to be fleeced out of money for 6+ months while the developers and the very people who were meant to stand up for you (the CSM) said nothing. No, this wasn't inevitable, this was a **** move through and through. 1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG. Be polite, they want to refund you!
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 285	Posted - 2014.05.05 07:34:00 - [5] - Quote The CPM actually said quite a bit: http://www.dust514base.com/ I won't argue with the rest, albeit there is very little information on the progress or use of funds to really give much of a rant about specifically in those regards. I certainly wish there was. It was inevitable however, no amount of betrayal, lies, or poor PR can reverse this reality. If not this year, then the next. I didn't have to be made on the PC and didn't have to self-implode as it did. But this is unavoidable. If we wanted this game to grow, it would require capacity. Scope is ultimately dependent on scale. I don't think anyone truly wanted a PS3 game for the next 5 years. "Berfore I go into a fleet com, I pour libations to the gods of lag and server stability." ~ Alex Bruneau
Ayrie Coronach DUST University Ivy League 186	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:40:00 - [6] - Quote Well said, Jason. The community's reaction and all the fallout it will bring could have been avoided, almost in its entirety. Some players would be left out in the cold because of the platform change. Their disappointment and anger would be unavoidable. I feel the most for these people. I am among those that bought a PS3 for DUST 514, it was the system seller for me. Unlike some of DUST's player base, I am fortunate enough to have an income level that allows me to purchase a new gaming platform for the sake of a single game if it interests me. Not everyone has the luxury of being able do this, and those that don't already have a PC fit for gaming or the means to get one would be lost to us in order for CCP to try this New Eden shooter thing again; for realsies this time u gais, srsly! That is a sad thing, and CCP should have been a LOT more sympathetic to this group of people when considering the tone and substance of this announcement. There should have been SOMETHING for these people. A guarantee that regular updates would continue to be made to DUST 514 in the lead-up to Legion's release, and that afterwords features that can be transferred back to the PS3 would be. Plus some kind of souvenir (IRL or digital) that says something to the effect of "I was a beta tester/guinea pig for CCP for two years and all I got was this stupid _____." Some silly little thing like that. Everybody loves tchotchkes! I know that's a losing proposition for CCP as far as financials go, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to be told that DUST has been in the red every second of every day since release and that will only get worse from here on out. But it would go a long way toward cashing some of those extravagant promise checks CCP wrote for DUST 514. It would buy goodwill. It would be positive PR. It would lead to a satisfied community, that DOESN'T feel like they've been ran roughshod over, which is what we have here now. Anyway it's late and I've already wrote too much, so I'm gonna skip agreeing with you for another ten paragraphs, haha. But I am going to say just one more thing in hopes someone at CCP reads it. Doubtful, considering the headless chicken impersonation I imagine they're doing right now as they try to get a handle on this situation and pull it into a positive spin, but it's worth a shot. I've got a gaming PC, I'm totally confident it will be able to handle Legion when (if) it comes out. Legion looks good to me. It looks like DUST 514, but prettier! I am all about that. If it gets even HALF of the features you guys have promised for DUST over the years actually implemented (a considerable number, even halved) then it would be exactly the kind of game I would want to play. It would be the kind of game that made me go out and buy a PS3. If I didn't already have that gaming PC, it would strongly encourage me to get one. So, I've established that I like the look of Legion. It is very much my bag, baby! Here comes the drop... ...in all likelihood, I won't be playing it. Not after a showing like this, CCP. Not after watching you promise, hype and half-measure your way into this situation. I have seen nothing that leads me to believe you are any more capable of achieving the vision this time around than you were the last. That alone would dissuade me from playing and recommending Legion to my friends. This announcement debacle, plus the dishonest and silent run-up to the revelation that content development on DUST had halted months ago WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY HOLDING MICRO-TRANSACTION PROMOTIONS is just the brown frosting on the crap cake. CALL 1-800-345-SONY. PRESS '2' AND THEN '2' AGAIN. AURUM PURCHASES CAN BE REFUNDED WITHIN 90 DAYS!
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 285	Posted - 2014.05.06 03:26:00 - [7] - Quote I can agree that this move and the rather careless, microsoft-like dev response is rather disheartening. The micro-transactions were sneaky and the silence has done little to help any of it. However, I never really played the game with high-hope for CCP. I certainly believed, and still do, that they want a fantastic and innovative game. I too have a means of playing the game on PS3 as well as PC. It is however extremely insulting to friends I have known and players I have met within the game. It's not simply upgrading technology. The change is to different market and platform and one that they should have taken far more seriously. The damage would have happened regardless, but they should have planned and prepared to take the hit with compassion and grace. Not arrogant withdrawl. "Berfore I go into a fleet com, I pour libations to the gods of lag and server stability." ~ Alex Bruneau
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 287	Posted - 2014.05.10 04:03:00 - [8] - Quote I does seem like most people are starting to agree with this... "Berfore I go into a fleet com, I pour libations to the gods of lag and server stability." ~ Alex Bruneau


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