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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1194
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Posted - 2014.05.04 02:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
When EVE: Legion was revealed, I had conflicted feelings. On one hand, it's what I've always wanted. On the other hand, it seemed like Dust 514 was being abandoned entirely. I've had some time to reflect on EVE: Legion and what it means for Dust 514, and I've come to a conclusion.
EVE: Legion... doesn't seem so bad, even if it's not perfect. I'll list my reasons for coming to that conclusion.
1. Is CCP abandoning Dust 514? Not quite. Looking over the information provided, it seems that Dust 514 isn't going to be abandoned. Assuming that CCP is honest about Legion becoming an open-world FPS, which Dust is not, it's not unreasonable to infer that Legion is not replacing Dust. Rather, Dust 514 will remain as a lobby-based shooter whereas EVE: Legion will use more EVE-like concepts, such as asymmetrical warfare, player-run industry and open-world gameplay.
To be honest, I'm somewhat disappointed with that idea as this means that Dust 514 is not likely to have these concepts, or at least will not have as many of them. However, there are some who enjoy Dust 514's current mechanics, so I can't really say for certain whether this is a bad thing without being heavily subjective.
2. Are you losing money and progress? Maybe, but probably not. Some have voiced concerns that they will lose their progress, and thus money they spent on said progress, in Dust 514 if and when they emigrate to EVE: Legion. This is an understandable concern. However, CCP has promised that if EVE: Legion is released that all characters and assets (possibly excluding BPOs as you know them, as CCP has stated that Dust 514 BPOs are at odds with their desired open-world vision) will be copied over from Dust 514. As such, you will not lose any money or progress, even if you do transfer over, with the possible exception of BPOs which will likely be reimbursed in some way.
3. Console gamers don't get to experience EVE: Legion. I cannot debate this claim. It is certainly true that you cannot play a PC game without a PC. However, owning a PC is a pretty common thing and you have no one to blame if you prioritize buying a game console over buying or upgrading to a moderately capable PC. Not trying to be rude here, but them's the facts.
4. I wasted my money buying a PS3 just so I could play Dust 514! This is an outrage! I have a confession to make. I, like some others, bought a PS3 mostly so I could play Dust 514. Am I upset? Not really. Firstly, buying a console solely to play a specific game is a really bad idea and there's really no reason to be upset at someone else for it. Secondly, after I bought my PS3 I ended up using it to play other games in addition to Dust 514, because otherwise it would be a waste. Don't blame CCP alone for your wasteful spending.
5. Do you like the way Dust 514 is, but hate that progress will now slow? Well, I'm not really sure how that feels, but I suppose slow progress is never a good thing. Don't worry, though, Dust 514 is not going anywhere anytime soon, so even if the progress is slow you can still enjoy the game as it is. This is probably the most legitimate complaint I can think of, so even though I don't feel too bad about it I sympathize with you.
Well, that's all I can really say for now, assuming CCP is being totally honest here. But don't feel too bad. Maybe in the future CCP will port EVE: Legion to consoles. Also remember that EVE: Legion isn't set-in-stone, CCP isn't completely sure whether they'll go through with it or not. If you really don't want EVE: Legion to be implemented as it is, you can always tell CCP that. Just be reasonable, please. Don't condemn it before you understand it.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1196
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Posted - 2014.05.04 04:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:CCP confirms, direct quotes from the VP, dust is dead, it will receive no more updates. Dust was a complete failure and they can no longer support it. Their team has been removed from dust and are laser focused on legion. What.
CCP has already stated that EVE: Legion is just an concept they came up with and were considering implementing, like EVE: Valkyrie. People liked the idea of EVE: Valkyrie, so it became an official thing. If people don't like the idea of EVE: Legion, they probably won't do it. Though this is under the assumption that CCP is being honest.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1199
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Posted - 2014.05.04 04:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:Cotsy wrote:CCP confirms, direct quotes from the VP, dust is dead, it will receive no more updates. Dust was a complete failure and they can no longer support it. Their team has been removed from dust and are laser focused on legion. What. CCP has already stated that EVE: Legion is just an concept they came up with and were considering implementing, like EVE: Valkyrie. People liked the idea of EVE: Valkyrie, so it became an official thing. If people don't like the idea of EVE: Legion, they probably won't do it. Though this is under the assumption that CCP is being honest. You should have read my footnote: Ulysses Knapse wrote:Well, that's all I can really say for now, assuming CCP is being totally honest here. But don't feel too bad. Maybe in the future CCP will port EVE: Legion to consoles. Also remember that EVE: Legion isn't set-in-stone, CCP isn't completely sure whether they'll go through with it or not. If you really don't want EVE: Legion to be implemented as it is, you can always tell CCP that. Just be reasonable, please. Don't condemn it before you understand it. I swear, some of you guys either do. It or can not read. The developers of dust 514 have been working on legion for 6 months. CCP ask given legion all the developers that were working on dust and said now they are laser focused and all hands on deck for legion. Read the quotes, read the articles on digital spy and polygon about dust being done and you can see there is no reason to have items/sp transferred. It causes more problems than the 5% of players it makes happy. LEGION IS NOT A CONCEPT, ITS BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT FOR 6 MONTHS. HARDLY AN IDEA, ITS A 100% FULLY BEING DEVELOPED PROJECT. I swear, you hear one CPM say something and you think his views are more important than what the VP of CCP said. Dust is dead, face it. Here is transcript: PCGN: Your blog post on the Dust website described Project Legion as "the experience we've all dreamt of". What I'm trying to get at is whether Project Legion is replacing Dust 514 as the FPS experience you guys want to make. JCG: Well it's tough to say "replacing" today. Today we have [in Dust] a really strong product out live and doing well, while Project Legion is still in early development. Personally I find that, yes, [Project Legion] will complete that [Dust 514] vision, the vision of being on the ground in a first-person experience in EVE. It would absolutely complete and realise that vision. PCGN: And that's not something you could do with Dust? JCG: As I've described it a few times, it would be a bit like changing the engine of a plane in flight. Such severe changes to an already live experience, that's what triggered the development of Project Legion. Ok, we know he is lying because CCP said its been 6 months in development. Months is 6. Hardly recent. Also, changing engine of a plane mid flight is terrible but true. Legion is replacing dust because dust failed and they are going to abandon ship. Now if you want i can get you copy pastes of the fresh start, evolution, new beginning stuff too. Leave you with this: Dust has been doing a lot of right things, it's difficult now to finish, to close the loop in some... Nice eh?! You want more examples?!? Digital spy has many quotes from vp of CCP saying its dead Am I supposed to take your word for it? I haven't been able to find anything confirming your claims. So either you're not being totally honest here, or I suck at searching the internet. So, with all due respect, show us proof of the validity of your claims.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1200
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Posted - 2014.05.04 04:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
ResistanceGTA wrote:On point 3, why should I have to buy a PC for one game? Seems like a waste of space to me. No one is telling you to buy a PC for a single game. But if I'm going to be honest here, most people should have and do have PCs. The same cannot be said for a specific console, such as the PS3.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1200
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Posted - 2014.05.04 04:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:We won't leave any merc behind - rouge says that. Nice that his boss says otherwise. And according to the latest fan fest, they haven't decided but it's not looking good. Yea: http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/3/5677566/Dust-514-project-legion-reactionHere is what is going to happen: "I ran DICE for awhile, and the first shooter game out of DICE was a game called Codename Eagle, which tons of people donGÇÖt know anything about, and never would, and probably shouldnGÇÖt," he told Polygon. "I think it sold like 20,000 units and got a 50 Metacritic, maybe a 40, something like that. It was horrible, and at the end of the day, teams usually have to do multiple iterations of something to get to something really great." Or And if people are like, GÇÿyou know what, thanks for all the fish and weGÇÖve moved,GÇÖ then we wonGÇÖt. ItGÇÖs as simple as that, and I think itGÇÖs true for any game service." Or no plans for updates at http://www.digitalspy.ca/gaming/news/a568488/dust-514-sees-no-planned-updates-scraps-survival-mode-and-vita-app.html#~oDgvSyczxFyCjF "That's the risk of coming in early into Project Legion, but we're not good at keeping secrets away from our consumers," he explained. Or you can go watch the youtube video in skill trees, where the guy off camera says they have transferred the team and are laser focused on legion.. Which team did they move, the dust team. Neither of those articles claim that Dust 514 is dead, nor do they claim that data cannot be transferred. One of them (the Digitalspy article) has even been updated to say that, in fact, Dust 514 is still going to be supported and that data can be transferred.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1200
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, even if what you say is true, should I, for any particular reason, mind?
I still think you should cite your sources.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1203
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
I still cannot seem to find any evidence supporting your claims about data transfer and the death of Dust 514, Cotsy.
At most, I've found some in CCP stating that they "don't know" if they can transfer data, or "don't know" if Dust 514 will continue to be supported in the years to come. I've also found articles and statements promising data transfer and the continued support of Dust 514, but not articles or statements to the contrary. And I've looked, believe me.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1205
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cotsy, I think you're misunderstanding what proof is.
You need to link your sources instead of just repeating your claims.
You say they've been working on it for 6 months? Okay, that's fine. Show me how you learned this "information".
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1206
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Wow, the Seth of dust is easily found. They transferred all their development team from dust to legion. It says it in 5 of the articles and its all over in a simple google search. They said dust is a crashing plane..etc dust is a failure and they want to make an evolution to legion. I tried to find forum post that Logi bro wrote about Sony and it not being about SP and ISK being transfered but rather about names and account details, so that isn't a transfer of character, just information which CCP has to buy from Sony. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2125337#post2125337 1. Okay, they transferred their development team. So what? That doesn't mean it won't be supported. They could have made a new development team, or have Dust 514 be a sort of side project. In one of the articles you yourself linked it said that Dust 514 would continue to be supported. So either CCP is lying, or you're a little too fond of making assumptions.
2. Sony stores the account data (and maybe the character data), yes, but that doesn't mean it can't be transferred.
3. They do not say Dust 514 is a crashing plane. No one would ever say something that stupid about their own MMO.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1206
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:There's also a questionnaire being passed around at fan fest, according to people there. The options are about how much would they pay for legion and would they take an increase in subscription fee on top of their eve accounts oh say 5$ a month.
So while its up in the air, they wanted it as a pay system but who knows what they will decide to do now. You think console free to play players are going to pay to play legion?! Not in a million years are the okay station, a free to play system online are going to leave buy a gaming PC and pay a monthly fee. Who knows? I might.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1206
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well, even if they do cancel Dust 514, EVE: Legion would probably use a lot of the same assets. Wouldn't want all that progress on Dust 514 to go to waste, after all, and Sony might own the account and character data but CCP most certainly owns the actual programming assets for Dust 514. I don't even view EVE: Legion as a separate game, but merely the continuation of Dust 514's original concept on a much more well-suited platform.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1208
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Posted - 2014.05.04 05:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Samael Artico wrote:This conversation amuses me. It is clear that Cotsy has a looser definition of proof than Ulysses. Hey, i watched the feeds, i read the quotes on day one. Your own personal experiences are not proof. Being a witness is one thing, but you can't convict without evidence.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1209
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Posted - 2014.05.04 06:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:CCP doesn't normally make public mistakes like they did at fan fest, they under estimated the backlash and are in damage control mode. Its more reasonable to assume their op day 1 ideas and original bad ideas were what they wanted to do. The second day lets cater to you a bit and get your player info and account to eve world, is just an effective way to connect users from dust to eve and appease them.
But providing a new game, a new evolution of a game and then giving dust players 40-50m SP advantages is crazy. It's not a level playing field and eve and new players to legion will be furious.
The first post i saw after was a CPM saying don't be mad most sequels do not carry over SP and since legion isnt a sequel but a different game completely, or an evolution as CCP puts it. Then you cannot expect or you don't deserve one. Now i was mad, told him there are many games which carry over progression.
But from what CCP said and what makes sense, they will have everyone start at stage 1 together. It makes more sense to their game, makes more sense money wise, and wont upset legion player base.
Enter new game at 400k SP, get stomped by 1000 dust players with SP ranging from 10-40m. Meta level bullshit aside, it's about the fitting and the access to more the more SP you have. If you saw the skill tree, you can see the bullshit you will have to weed through to run what you want and run ideal fits. No one is going to believe, or should believe what CCP says today. It was about their original plans to get off the airplane without an engine and jump into PC and legion will be that jump.
Dust will die a slow, buggy death. Legion will rise from its ashes thanks to the dust team of developers. Legion will be everything dust was, and dust will be literally dust.
Say what you want about CCP today, but CCP IS BACKTRACKING DUE TO NEGATIVE REACTION. They wanted someone one way and aren't going to compromise at the risk of losing profits. I'm not saying CCP isn't to blame here, I just want to see some proof. I wasn't at Fanfest, so the only thing I can go by is what I hear from other people, but I can't trust what just anyone says. No offense, but you're no Kotaku or Gamespot.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1209
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 06:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Actually, first hand experiences are considered more valid than second hand ones. While that is true, I'd trust the first-hand experience of a 3rd party news organization over someone who actually plays Dust 514 and is just talking over a forum. Even if they were both first-hand observers, news organizations are more credible than forum-goers.
Cotsy wrote:Question section at end. Ill answer that, we are laser focused on developing legion now. "Laser-focused" is ambiguous hyperbole. I can't draw anything from that other than "we are very focused on developing EVE: Legion as of now". It does not necessarily mean "Dust 514 is being abandoned entirely".
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
|
Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1264
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Posted - 2014.05.04 22:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bump.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1289
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Posted - 2014.05.05 08:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1326
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Posted - 2014.05.06 04:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Double bump.
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