DUST Search - Dust SP and the New Eden SP market

Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:

trollsroyce wrote:

short:

EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality.

IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy.

discuss

There is no such thing as SP inflation. SP is no currency. The only problem CCP has is how to convert the Dust SP to Legion SP so that it's fair. Resetting them to zero for all Dust chars is a no go. I spent a lot of money on boosters. On top of that all these SP events and events you capped out with boosters. Everything has to be taken into account when they transfer the Dust char to legion.

So they can't just convert the time your character has existed. They need to convert the full SP your character actually has.


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trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:15:00 - [1] - Quote short: EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality. IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy. discuss
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:22:00 - [2] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: trollsroyce wrote: short: EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality. IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy. discuss And give up my 25 mil on this character among others? I'd personally rather start from scratch in a game that has a healthier potential to start off with, than carry the SP over into a new game to present a barrier of skillpoints for any potential newcomers who are eyeing a "new game" launching. Also, I'd rather dump the freeloading inactive mercenaries' SP to have a functional character bazaar than carry over my SP. After all, for the gameplay experience, SP does very little. It's just running and gunning whether you have the SP or not.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:25:00 - [3] - Quote Megan Steel wrote: I want at least my Items transfered... The boosters I spent if there's going to be a fresh start This I support. Not transferring items, but the AURUM. Also, I'd be surprised if CCP are not planning on an universal PLEX that can be used on all New Eden games. If this is the case, dust AUR could be possibly quite useful in the future and everyone who spent their cash on testing the game while it was on PS3 would get something more concrete in return.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:26:00 - [4] - Quote Kara Anschel wrote: I'd be fine with a reset IF veteran accounts get a booster that lasts until they reach an equivalent SP level in Legion. Just slap a x2 or x3 booster on those verified accounts ( there are multiple ways to do this). This way everyone starts out fresh, but veterans will reach their previous level faster. This opens up late game quickly, but still leaves a level playing field. This is a very good idea.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:27:00 - [5] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: trollsroyce wrote: short: EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality. IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy. discuss IMHO EVE, DUST (Legion), Valkyrie should be reset to zero for EVE Unite... right? 15 years of SP to zero. Ok. Unlike Dust SP, EVE SP comes from paid training time. You could make an argument for resetting all but AURUM boosted extra SP.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:28:00 - [6] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: trollsroyce wrote: short: EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality. IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy. discuss There is no such thing as SP inflation. SP is no currency. The only problem CCP has is how to convert the Dust SP to Legion SP so that it's fair. Resetting them to zero for all Dust chars is a no go. I spent a lot of money on boosters. On top of that all these SP events and events you capped out with boosters. Everything has to be taken into account when they transfer the Dust char to legion. So they can't just convert the time your character has existed. They need to convert the full SP your character actually has. SP is currency in EVE and in New Eden through the character bazaar. The AURUM transfer would fix a lot of issues, maybe some memorabilia items that you were presented as gifts should be transferred too as a reward for testing the Legion "pre-alpha".
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:41:00 - [7] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: trollsroyce wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: trollsroyce wrote: short: EVE has character bazaar. Dust has free character creation spam (for starter ISK farming among other things) and lots of inactive legacy mercenaries gathering free SP. This will lead into SP inflation if SP is transferred to Legion, and character bazaar inflation for Legion SP when one account for New Eden becomes reality. IMHO skillpoints should be completely reset to zero for Legion to generate a fresh start for newcomers as well as alleviate transfer anomalies in the economy. discuss IMHO EVE, DUST (Legion), Valkyrie should be reset to zero for EVE Unite... right? 15 years of SP to zero. Ok. Unlike Dust SP, EVE SP comes from paid training time. You could make an argument for resetting all but AURUM boosted extra SP. And our SP in dust comes from time played, just like it does in eve. You're creating a double standard and a false dichotomy. The very real issue behind this is the abundance of free characters gathering passive SP. I personally have several "convenience" characters on multiple PSN accounts created for Dust and Dust only. These are all gathering free passive SP. Were they EVE characters gathering SP in the same future universe, I'd have to pay for each. For Dust I just fire and forget. Were they EVE characters I'd have to log in to set training. For Dust I just gather passively, never logging in after character creation until I feel it's ripe for usage. The people who are farming ISK by creating hundreds of new characters daily and transferring the starter money will be the people selling these passive trained alts from day one of Legion, if the free transfer happens. Now that I write it, it's not a world ending issue. Nevertheless it feels ugly.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 690	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:47:00 - [8] - Quote The solution I'd propose as of now without much though would be to: - Everyone is egligible of transfer - Names are reserved - AURUM is fully reimbursed and transferred - Memorabilia items from various tournaments and giftings are transferred - SP is not transferred - A player persistence gift SP system is implemented instead, with a little bit of gifted SP (e.g. 1 million SP for 3 months of measured Dust activity)
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 692	Posted - 2014.05.03 20:59:00 - [9] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: trollsroyce wrote: The solution I'd propose as of now without much though would be to: - Everyone is egligible of transfer - Names are reserved - AURUM is fully reimbursed and transferred - Memorabilia items from various tournaments and giftings are transferred - SP is not transferred - A player persistence gift SP system is implemented instead, with a little bit of gifted SP (e.g. 1 million SP for 3 months of measured Dust activity) No, resetting progression only generates bad publicity. People who have played dust deserve to keep the SP they've earned. Though with a name like 'trollsroyce' I don't expect good ideas from you. The way I see progression in Dust is very different from how I see it in EVE. Dust economy is wholly tainted by the p2w item injection and can not be compatible with the EVE economy, which is based on player industry and the laws of the market. Dust skillpoint progression is tainted by the p2w skill booster system and uncompatible with how it is in EVE by the free passive training. Legion skillpoint progression would be completely different from EVE and unhealthy in comparison. This is why I think Dust progression should be shot to make way for a healthier system that fits in better with EVE and Valkyrie. You are absolutely right in that resetting progression is bad publicity. It is especially bad when the comparison point is EVE, where the whole sandbox is based on longevity of items and item value (through destructibility). Still, I see Legion as a chance to take Dust behind the barn and correct the errors of incompatible design. Dust is a console game, Legion is a brethren to EVE and should be completely re-designed with the same philosophy as the sandbox that worked.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 695	Posted - 2014.05.03 21:30:00 - [10] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: CCP Rouge wrote: You would be able to bring your character name, applicable skills/inventory, and other elements of progression with you. Applicable, Legion might not even have SP like it exists in Dust 514 today 1) good information 2) not having SP like it exists today is a very intriguing thought. SP is a source of multiple problems in Dust with limited player # in engagements, as the equal player with more SP is preferable unlike in EVE, where you can bring both. Headshotting SP would make the game much more competitive and it would bridge a severe player base separation gap. An year ago or so I suggested nerfing the SP impact to 1% stat bonus maximum per skill level, in order to alleviate the issue of SP dividing the playerbase. It might be time to fix SP once for all now that CCP gets a fresh start.

trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 699	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:42:00 - [11] - Quote Making assumptions on my personal level off commitment is useless. My argument is ultimately that Legion has to do everything it can to grab a healthy player base. Legion has to do everything possible to survive the second launch and become something in the long term. When Uprising launched, I called the death of Dust within a year due to a bad launch and a large gap for new players to join the SP race among other things. It has now come to reality. All the factors that led to the death of Dust can now be taken into account in the ressurrection. The reality to balance is new player retention during the critical first months of the new fps launch which will determine whether it gets off or tanks again. For the sake of new player retention, old player advantages need to be taken to a reasonable level. If Legion also dies within a year, what good will your hard earned SP do you? On my commitment, I threw countless hours of game and metagame into Dust. I threw approx. 500 bucks in to help with the development. I posted multiple suggestions that are now implemented through both the forums and the CPM connections I had. Not many people have been involved in the level of commitment I have been in the metagame. You know what? I'll be happy to ditch this character, my connections, and start with nothing if Legion has the longevity to be worth playing. Dust in Chromosome was worth playing for the potential, in uprising most everyone with reason quit for the obvious waste of potential. Legion resets the potential. It's just about whether there is any sense in being with this game in the long term.