DUST Search - Devil Advodcate: Let's add more teirs aka Tieriply

Orin the Freak wrote:

When you're eyes are shut, it's hard to see anything.

There is nothing wrong with "play more, get better loot" It's been the principal of all MMO's since forever.

This is an MMOFPS. It seems like just a regular FPS currently due to the lack of anything else to do.

Look at EVE. It took me nearly 4 or 5 months to get into a semi-decently fit Battleship. It takes a person who plays regularly about a month to get a prototype suit.

Two months will get you a proto suit, a proto weapon, and a couple core skills.

Tiercide is an unnecessary action. What we need is low sec and null sec to open up, and to add disincentives to running proto in high sec pub matches.

a good idea I heard was to base your war points earned from kills on the difference between total meta level of your gear. starting at 50, and adding or subtracting WP based on the difference (+/-) in meta level.

Tiercide is a joke. Heres a new idea. lets just remove dropsuits all together, and force everyone to just pick a roll at the creation screen, Heavy, Logi, Assault, or Scout. Then you get one suit of that type, and thats all anyone gets.

See, I can be irrational and exaggerate as well.


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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14463	Posted - 2014.05.02 01:27:00 - [1] - Quote Because the current system is well liked by some of our player base lets add more tiers to satisy thier needs. Starting with a quick review of all teirs we have so far. Tier 1 Militia Caldari Medium Frame Tier 2 State Basic Caldari Medium Frame C-1 Neo Basic Caldari Medium Frame C-1 Basic Caldari Medium Frame C-1 Tier 3 State Advanced Caldari Medium Frame C/1 Neo Advanced Caldari Medium Frame C/1 Advanced Caldari medium Frame C/1 Tier 4 State Prototype Caldari Medium Frame Ck. 0 Neo Prototype Caldari Medium Frame Ck. 0 Prototype Caldari medium Frame Ck. 0 Tier 5 Skinweave Militia Caldari Assault Suit Tier 6 Dren Militia Caldari Assault Suit Tier 7 Neo Caldari Assault Frame C-1 Navy Caldari Assault Frame C-1 Caldari Assault Suit C-1 Tier 8 Navy Advanced Caldari Assault Frame C/1 Neo Advanced Caldari Assault Frame C/1 Advanced Caldari Assault Frame C/1 Tier 9 Navy Prototype Caldari Assault Frame Ck.0 Neo Prototype Caldari Assault Frame Ck. 0 Prototype caldari Assault Frame Ck. 0 Now for our new tiers. Dropsuit command 4 10x multiplier Skill Assault Frames Mastery Unlocks access to Master Assault Frames Tier 10 State Caldari master Assault Frame Neo Caldari Master Assault Frame Caldari Master Assault Frame C-1 Tier 11 State Advanced Caldari Master Frame C/1 Series Neo Advanced Caldari Master Assault Frame C/1 Series Caldari Advanced Master Assault Frame C/1 Series Tier 12 State Prototype Caldari Master Frame Ck. 0 Neo Prototype Caldari Master Assault Frame Ck. 0 Prototype Caldari Master Assault Frame Ck. 0 Advanced Dropsuit Command Requires Dropsuit Command 5 Allows Access to Tech 2 Suits Caldari Experimental Medium Frames x12 skill Requires Caldari Mastery lvl 5 Allows Access to Striker Frames Tier 13 State Caldari Experimental Medium Frame C-1 Neo Caldari Experimental Medium Frame C-1 Caldari Striker Experimental Medium Frame C-1 Tier 14 State Advanced Caldari Experimental Medium Frame C/1 Neo Advanced Caldari Experimental Medium Frame C/1 Advanced Caldari Experimental Medium Frame C/1 Tier 15 State Prototype Caldari Experimental Medium Frame Ck.0 Neo Prototype Caldari Experimental Frame Ck.0 Prototpye Caldari Experimental Frame Ck. 0 "Lancer Dropsuits x14 Skill Requires Experimental Medium Frames to lvl 3 Tier 16 Navy Caldari Lancer Dropsuit C-1 Neo Caldari Lancer Dropsuit C-1 Caldari Lancer Dropsuit C-1 Tier 17 State Advanced Caldari Lancer Dropsuit C/1 Neo Advanced Caldari Lancer Dropsuit C/1 Advanced Caldari lancer Dropsuit C/1 Tier 18 State Prototype Caldari Lancer Dropsuit Ck. 0 Neo Prototype Caldari Lancer Dropsuit Ck. 0 Prototype Caldari Lancer Dropsuit Ck. 0 Tier 19 State Attack Dropsuit Tier 20 Guristas Attack Dropsuit Tier 21 Pithi Attack Dropsuit Tier 22 Pithias Attack Dropsuit Tier 23 Dread Guristast Dropsuit Tier 24 Balacs's Experimental Attack Suit Kirin's Experimimental Attack Suit Tier 25 State Issued Attack Suit #Race2bottom CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14468	Posted - 2014.05.02 01:32:00 - [2] - Quote Vs Militia Assault - A genric raceless suit to give the feel of assualt Tech 1 Caldari Assault - A suit that favors caldari weapons for combat pressuring roles Minmatar Assault - A suit that favors minmatar weapons for combat pressuring roles Gallente Assault - A suit that favors gallente weapons for combat pressuring roles Amarr Assault - A suit that favors amarr weapons for combat pressuring roles Tech 2 Caldari Striker - A special suit that focuses on alpha attacks at the cost of combat endurance Caldari Breaker - A special suit that focuses on enduring combat to break enemy will at the cost of mobility Caldari Lancer - A special suit that focuses on battlefield presence Minmatar Striker Minmatar Breaker Minmatar Lancer Gallente Striker Gallente Breaker Gallente Lancer Amarr Striker Amarr Breaker Amarr Lancer Tech 3 Caldari Tactical Hard Suit Minmatar Tactical Hard Suit Gallente Tactical Hard Suit Amarr Tactical Hard Suit Rest : Cosmetics Skins CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14468	Posted - 2014.05.02 01:37:00 - [3] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: vs. the way it is now, T1 basic frames, T2 advanced, and T3 proto. cause that's way more complicated than either of the two options you just mentioned. Give it up. Tiercide is a joke. It will be nice to see what CPM1 has in store. And people wonder why Dropsuit command stops unlocking things at 3 and we're not using advanced dropsuit command skill book yet. Because of that; ALL suits are tech 1 and we;re missing actually two more levels of tech 1 suits each with basic advanced and prototype suits should the current model continue. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14471	Posted - 2014.05.02 01:39:00 - [4] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: vs. the way it is now, T1 basic frames, T2 advanced, and T3 proto. cause that's way more complicated than either of the two options you just mentioned. Give it up. Tiercide is a joke. It will be nice to see what CPM1 has in store. Also this statement you make is oxymoronous. It supports tiericide. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14471	Posted - 2014.05.02 01:40:00 - [5] - Quote Oh doh forgot to add tech 3. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14472	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:02:00 - [6] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: When you're eyes are shut, it's hard to see anything. There is nothing wrong with "play more, get better loot" It's been the principal of all MMO's since forever. This is an MMOFPS. It seems like just a regular FPS currently due to the lack of anything else to do. Look at EVE. It took me nearly 4 or 5 months to get into a semi-decently fit Battleship. It takes a person who plays regularly about a month to get a prototype suit. Two months will get you a proto suit, a proto weapon, and a couple core skills. Tiercide is an unnecessary action. What we need is low sec and null sec to open up, and to add disincentives to running proto in high sec pub matches. a good idea I heard was to base your war points earned from kills on the difference between total meta level of your gear. starting at 50, and adding or subtracting WP based on the difference (+/-) in meta level. Tiercide is a joke. Heres a new idea. lets just remove dropsuits all together, and force everyone to just pick a roll at the creation screen, Heavy, Logi, Assault, or Scout. Then you get one suit of that type, and thats all anyone gets. See, I can be irrational and exaggerate as well. When your mind is closed; the thoughts begin to rot There have been MMOs that destroy the whole play better makes better loot; rather play more to make what you got in gear far better. IE the quickly gaining popularity rivaling most other subscription mmos; Warframe at 2.4 million subs now and soon to be on that list Eve: Valkarie and Soon Eve Online. In Eve I can be deadly and fleet ready in a battleship in one month. You're doing something wrong. In Dust you could in be in prototype gun and suit in 2 weeks. Opening more Null and low means feeding the donut. Fine then lets play your way Everyone picks one role at the start and there are the roles Amarr Race : Amarr Sentinel - Point Defnese Suit specializing in engaging multiple targets Amarr Guardian - A mobile destruction platform Amarr Commander - A Suit that enchances nearby squadmembers Amarr Logistics - A suit that facilitates combat of teammates Amarr Engineer - A suit that focuses on infrastucture support of combat Amarr Technician - A suit that focuses on the well being of team assests Amarr Recon - A suit specializing in black ops Amarr Pilot - A suit that specializes in piloting vehicles Amarr Scout - a suit that specializes in finding enemy intel. Amarr Assault - A suit that specializes in bringing combat to the enemy Amarr Striker - A suit that breaks enemey defensive lines. Amarr Lancer - A suit that can intercept hostile foces and dispose of them Amarr Breaker - A suit that specialises in vehicle destruction Amarr Operative - A suit that specailizes in disabiling enemy defenses Amarr Specialist - A suit that is particularly good in notihng but is able to be flexible. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14472	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:03:00 - [7] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: vs. the way it is now, T1 basic frames, T2 advanced, and T3 proto. cause that's way more complicated than either of the two options you just mentioned. Give it up. Tiercide is a joke. It will be nice to see what CPM1 has in store. And people wonder why Dropsuit command stops unlocking things at 3 and we're not using advanced dropsuit command skill book yet. Because of that; ALL suits are tech 1 and we;re missing actually two more levels of tech 1 suits each with basic advanced and prototype suits should the current model continue. Yeah... I was tired last night and finally had enough SP to unlock weapon skill to level 5 for my main to work on HMG.... now I have level 5 drop suit command ...derp :( Yeah a proper tiericide would get rid of ALL that. A true tiericide philosphy is built on the inside to branch out instead of the current outside branches to inside which is why our current tech tree is terribly wrong because its reliant on higher exitences not existing yet. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14473	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:16:00 - [8] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Amarr Race : Amarr Sentinel - Point Defnese Suit specializing in engaging multiple targets Amarr Guardian - A mobile destruction platform Amarr Commander - A Suit that enchances nearby squadmembers Amarr Logistics - A suit that facilitates combat of teammates Amarr Engineer - A suit that focuses on infrastucture support of combat Amarr Technician - A suit that focuses on the well being of team assests Amarr Recon - A suit specializing in black ops Amarr Pilot - A suit that specializes in piloting vehicles Amarr Scout - a suit that specializes in finding enemy intel. Amarr Assault - A suit that specializes in bringing combat to the enemy Amarr Striker - A suit that breaks enemey defensive lines. Amarr Lancer - A suit that can intercept hostile foces and dispose of them Amarr Breaker - A suit that specialises in vehicle destruction Amarr Operative - A suit that specailizes in disabiling enemy defenses Amarr Specialist - A suit that is particularly good in notihng but is able to be flexible. But wait there is more! Let's Teiriply this 15 roles x4 races =60 roles total x75 across all tiers =4500 Suits +12 for the basic frames (4 per size) 4512! Suits Now that is what I call variety!!!! CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14473	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:23:00 - [9] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: fix your math IWS, but this is probably your best troll-for-seriousness yet! fixing CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14475	Posted - 2014.05.02 02:29:00 - [10] - Quote I am sure we can get 20 lvl 5 skills in a row and get 100 tiers going. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14505	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:28:00 - [11] - Quote Soon we can make it so you can skip heirs and have infinite number of theirs! CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14505	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:35:00 - [12] - Quote Keynote is in 30 minutes. Though. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14505	Posted - 2014.05.02 12:37:00 - [13] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: I guess they might announce it in the keynote. I was referring to the DUST 514: Progression panel later. Which one there's two of em.? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14635	Posted - 2014.05.03 21:12:00 - [14] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: lol who bumped this. go on raise your hand. coughthe dark cloudcough It's interesting though right - there is no necromancy going on here, it was a debate I was enjoying just this morning, and it was started by a CPM who would have known about Legion... [tinfoilhat] So maybe tiercide is the balance method going forward? I have just enough faith to presume CCP isn't now hiding info about canning the game in the next few months - it may, and I know I may regret saying this - may keep going until Legion is released. They may just balance out the various aspects precisely to make it more 'pick up and play' (hopefully not too much). Could also be why they've been chucking SP around like confetti - it may not hurt the power gap as much as one might think when new players start in a 'post-tier' DUST (and all the hardcore tryhards who live for tiers have just rage-quit anyway). Basically they could do it just to make the game more accessible and fun for now - not because it makes developing further content in the future any easier. [/tinfoilhat] Just a bit of fun in these gloomy times. Clap clap clap, +1 not because you're supporting but you're understanding what I do behind the closed doors a bit more. CCP Z's presentation is fruitation of his willigness to work the community (by cpm proxy unfourtunate but you guys did help fuel my side of the fight definetly) after his first purposal was not well received by the CPM. I submitted over 6 teiricide models (including 5 various ones from the community) and a 3 page report hans submitted a lengthy document as well and with some time to soak in new eden culture; dust culture; and the next result that acheives goals that we as a community should want; a tree that rewards but not overempower veterans while retaining freedom and flexibility and a item consumption retains nature of new eden while enabling character investment into admiration of what they unlocked. I have yet to bring up the concern of future proofing though but this is all early draft. His next steps if good I hope gets seen publically and you guys get to take further whacks at it. And yes, if tech and time allowed I would like to see this brought to dust. To bad copy paste dont work exactly in games. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked