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Foundation Seldon
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
657
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Posted - 2014.05.02 00:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
During the Ship balance Keynote during the first day of Fanfest they showed off an interesting diagram of how they plan to rebalance the current EVE modules in the game.
Current Modules : http://i.imgur.com/DeaYN7F.jpg
Tiericided Modules : http://i.imgur.com/BkRq41M.jpg
So leveling up in a particular module or weapon type would open up variations of said module instead of having direct power ups as is the current norm for the majority of modules in EVE. One can specialize in a more defined role and require significantly less of an investment in order to do so and as a result things like the new player experience are improved dramatically.
Immediately I'm reminded of Dust progression and the state of tiericide as it exists in our game. The way I see it we're flirting with two different extremes :
Dropsuit side is far too based on the linear, "higher meta level -> higher direct effectiveness" that we see in the current modules in EVE.
Vehicle side, while definitely having elements of tiericide, does little to incentivize the use of higher tiered tiericided modules because the only difference them is cooldown reduction. So there's not enough variation within the tiericided modules overall.
I love the idea of module tiericide and the notion of having a non-linear progression system, I just hope the idea can be further fleshed out as it exists in its limited form in Dust. We certainly have elements of it already and ways that it could be adapted right now (Weapon variants, old Turret variants) but we also have a lot of the other extreme where SP is king and the new player can do next to nothing to get a foothold against the established players in the game.
We'll see I suppose.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
137
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:During the Ship balance Keynote during the first day of Fanfest they showed off an interesting diagram of how they plan to rebalance the current EVE modules in the game. Current Modules : http://i.imgur.com/DeaYN7F.jpgTiericided Modules : http://i.imgur.com/BkRq41M.jpgSo leveling up in a particular module or weapon type would open up variations of said module instead of having direct power ups as is the current norm for the majority of modules in EVE. One can specialize in a more defined role and require significantly less of an investment in order to do so and as a result things like the new player experience are improved dramatically. Immediately I'm reminded of Dust progression and the state of tiericide as it exists in our game. The way I see it we're flirting with two different extremes : Dropsuit side is far too based on the linear, "higher meta level -> higher direct effectiveness" that we see in the current modules in EVE. Vehicle side, while definitely having elements of tiericide, does little to incentivize the use of higher tiered tiericided modules because the only difference them is cooldown reduction. So there's not enough variation within the tiericided modules overall. I love the idea of module tiericide and the notion of having a non-linear progression system, I just hope the idea can be further fleshed out as it exists in its limited form in Dust. We certainly have elements of it already and ways that it could be adapted right now (Weapon variants, old Turret variants) but we also have a lot of the other extreme where SP is king and the new player can do next to nothing to get a foothold against the established players in the game. We'll see I suppose.
Vehicles modules need tiers back, and some missing skills for vehicles. |
Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
797
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Posted - 2014.05.02 01:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:During the Ship balance Keynote during the first day of Fanfest they showed off an interesting diagram of how they plan to rebalance the current EVE modules in the game. Current Modules : http://i.imgur.com/DeaYN7F.jpgTiericided Modules : http://i.imgur.com/BkRq41M.jpgSo leveling up in a particular module or weapon type would open up variations of said module instead of having direct power ups as is the current norm for the majority of modules in EVE. One can specialize in a more defined role and require significantly less of an investment in order to do so and as a result things like the new player experience are improved dramatically. Immediately I'm reminded of Dust progression and the state of tiericide as it exists in our game. The way I see it we're flirting with two different extremes : Dropsuit side is far too based on the linear, "higher meta level -> higher direct effectiveness" that we see in the current modules in EVE. Vehicle side, while definitely having elements of tiericide, does little to incentivize the use of higher tiered tiericided modules because the only difference them is cooldown reduction. So there's not enough variation within the tiericided modules overall. I love the idea of module tiericide and the notion of having a non-linear progression system, I just hope the idea can be further fleshed out as it exists in its limited form in Dust. We certainly have elements of it already and ways that it could be adapted right now (Weapon variants, old Turret variants) but we also have a lot of the other extreme where SP is king and the new player can do next to nothing to get a foothold against the established players in the game. We'll see I suppose. Vehicles modules need tiers back, and some missing skills for vehicles.
vehicles are op they dont need anything right now but a 1.6 rollback.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Foundation Seldon
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
658
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:
Vehicles modules need tiers back, and some missing skills for vehicles.
There wouldn't be a need for tiers if they found a way to diversify the modules in a way that incentivized speccing into them for the specialized variations of those modules. Imagine instead of having a cooldown reduction you specced into hardeners to have one variation that protected against Explosion/Missile damage especially well, one variation that protected against Blaster damage especially well, or one variation that had protection against multiple damage types at lower levels on top of having the omni-damage protection that the hardener already provided.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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Glantix Karmic-Snow
Frozen Karma
19
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
No Foundation!
Not you too!
Master of Restarting. Over 100 chars made.
New Player Experience Expert. I've been stuck in it for 8 months after all.
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Foundation Seldon
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
658
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:No Foundation! Not you too!
I've implied that I'm a supporter of something like this multiple times in squad, there's an issue with the gap between Proto and Standard that would be immediately addressed if something like this was in place. And the addition of further module specializations allows you to further define a role in the suit or vehicle you're wanting to make. Vehicles are already tiericided to a degree that's comparable to EVE but what they lack is the interesting additional specialization routes (right now its purely reduced cooldown which is kinda lame) for individual mods that make fitting ships in EVE so interesting.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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Glantix Karmic-Snow
Frozen Karma
19
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:No Foundation! Not you too! I've implied that I'm a supporter of something like this multiple times in squad, there's an issue with the gap between Proto and Standard that would be immediately addressed if something like this was in place. And the addition of further module specializations allows you to further define a role in the suit or vehicle you're wanting to make. Vehicles are already tiericided to a degree that's comparable to EVE but what they lack is the interesting additional specialization routes (right now its purely reduced cooldown which is kinda lame) for individual mods that make fitting ships in EVE so interesting.
I must admit, you have made this make a lot more sense then the group of people I was just arguing with. This could be due to my natural ignorance, or it could just be I am more willing to listen to you, or it is a combination of them both.
I like what you are saying, but I still don't support tiercide. Let me just dig up my closing point from the previous tiercide argument......
Here it is....
Glantix Karmic-Snow wrote:Ok, I can tell my argument is failing. You guys have successfully countered almost all of my points. But there is one point I stand by, and it is that reason alone that I believe we should ditch the concept of tiercide. That feeling of progression is what keeps players in this game. That feeling when you unlock a new weapon and you feel like you can take on the world. That feeling of when you level a suit up from level 2 to level 3, and all of a sudden your options and power increase dramatically. That feeling know you can now equip more modules, and that you are now closer to the vets who's shadows have been cast upon you for so long. That feeling is what keeps this game interesting and alive. You cannot tell me that getting a 5% bonus to something decent is more exciting than getting that 5% bonus as well as 1 or 2 more modules, maybe even an equipment. Everyone knows it is pretty boring when you unlock an advanced module, because it is only providing a small benefit and your suit isn't really changing. But it is that feeling of advancement, that sensation of going from standard to advanced, and advanced to prototype, that really makes the game not only interesting, but unique. I know most of my previous arguments didn't make much sense, in fact looking back they don't make much sense to me either. But if you are going to deny that tiercide is going to take a lot of the fun out of this game, then you should go watch paint dry or something, because to people like you anything like that should be entertaining too. Thank you for your time, and thanks for an interesting argument, but this is my closing point. Sincerely, Glanitx / Snow
So yah, there it is.
This is my standings, and maybe you will be able to change my viewpoint, as your sense of logic has proven multiple times that it is better than mine.
That being said, I really don't feel like getting into another debate, so I will leave it at this and maybe talk to you later tonight in game.
Sincerely, Glantix / Snow
Master of Restarting. Over 100 chars made.
New Player Experience Expert. I've been stuck in it for 8 months after all.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14473
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I just find it funny that Eve's module Tiericide seems inspired... by Dust 514.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2118
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Posted - 2014.05.02 02:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:During the Ship balance Keynote during the first day of Fanfest they showed off an interesting diagram of how they plan to rebalance the current EVE modules in the game. Current Modules : http://i.imgur.com/DeaYN7F.jpgTiericided Modules : http://i.imgur.com/BkRq41M.jpgSo leveling up in a particular module or weapon type would open up variations of said module instead of having direct power ups as is the current norm for the majority of modules in EVE. One can specialize in a more defined role and require significantly less of an investment in order to do so and as a result things like the new player experience are improved dramatically. Immediately I'm reminded of Dust progression and the state of tiericide as it exists in our game. The way I see it we're flirting with two different extremes : Dropsuit side is far too based on the linear, "higher meta level -> higher direct effectiveness" that we see in the current modules in EVE. Vehicle side, while definitely having elements of tiericide, does little to incentivize the use of higher tiered tiericided modules because the only difference them is cooldown reduction. So there's not enough variation within the tiericided modules overall. I love the idea of module tiericide and the notion of having a non-linear progression system, I just hope the idea can be further fleshed out as it exists in its limited form in Dust. We certainly have elements of it already and ways that it could be adapted right now (Weapon variants, old Turret variants) but we also have a lot of the other extreme where SP is king and the new player can do next to nothing to get a foothold against the established players in the game. We'll see I suppose. Vehicles modules need tiers back, and some missing skills for vehicles.
agreed
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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