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BL4CKST4R
warravens
Final Resolution.
2605
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Posted - 2014.04.30 11:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shields are to be low HP rep tanked suits, while armor should be high HP stand and deliver suits. Most people counter the "imbalance" by saying shields need more HP, but in fact what shields need is to be able to repair more while not relying on dual tanking to be viable.
Shields:
Move energizers/rechargers to lows and buff them
Regulators? IDK
Make shield repair constant keep shield depleted delay
Reduce onboard shield repair by 3x
Modules:
Move damage modifiers to lows
Add module here to avoid dual tanking from armor
All penalties remain the same and ignoring fitting costs (although important)
SHIELDS
Shield extenders:
Complex: 68
Enhanced: 52
Basic: 40
Shield energizers: >Low slot<
Complex: 65%
Enhanced: 55%
Basic: 45%
Shield rechargers: >Low slot<
Complex: 50%
Enhanced: 40%
Basic: 35%
ARMOR
Armor plates:
Complex: 135
Enhanced: 104
Basic: 80
Ferroscale plates:
Complex: 104
Enhanced: 80
Basic: 62
*Reactive plates:
Complex: 80 HP/s: ???
Enhanced: 62 HP/s: ??
Basic: 47 HP/s: ?
*Armor repairers:
Complex:???
Enhanced: ??
Basic: ?
*Gallente base armor repair:
Light:???
Medium:??
Heavy:?
*Armor repair values have not been adjusted as they should fall slightly below shield repair values while giving an equal or slightly higher amount of HP, I.E a Gallente rep tanked suit should have around 570-650 EHP with a repair of around 22-30 and also slightly slower speed.
BUILDS
Assault ck.0
>178 Base Shields (-15% HP)
>120 Base Armor
>Base shield repair of 10 HP/s
>Shield repair 35.2 HP/s = 3x complex energizers (if my math is correct) although I want the end result of shield repair to be about the same as it is now, except constant
>Depleted delay 7 or 10 (I cant remember + game offline)
>272 HP from 4x complex shield extenders
>EHP: 570
Assault gk.0
>210 Base armor
>120 Base shields
>Base armor repair: ??
>Armor repair ??? HP/s (1x complex)
>405 HP from 3x complex plates -12% speed
>EHP: 735
Assault mk.0
Would require a buff to its shield repair and depleted delay for it to be viable in this scenario
Assault ak.0
I am lazy
Feel free to agree or disagree this is just how I see things.
For the Federation!
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BL4CKST4R
warravens
Final Resolution.
2608
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Reducing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless.
I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change:
Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't.
Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those.
Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank.
Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields.
for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way.
As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them.
For the Federation!
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BL4CKST4R
warravens
Final Resolution.
2611
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Posted - 2014.04.30 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:RedUvimhing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless.
I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change:
Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't.
Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those.
Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank.
Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields. for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way. As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them. Energizers work as a percent of shield regen so any reduction to shield regen rate hits then doubly hard. I might be misunderstanding but you say you want to reduce "onboard shield repair by 3x." That's huge. For example, let's say shield regen is 100 (arguments and simplicity sake.) Energizers currently give 45% increase to shield regen rate (pro energizers are way too expensive to be used so disregard them.) Thus your shield regen is now 145. Reducing shield delay by 3x means shield regen is now 33. So with one energizer at +55%, you now have 51. That's a gigantic Nerf...even if you make energizers 100%, that still makes regen 66 with 1, and 2 is now 123 (after stacking penalty.) So 2 energizers aren't worth even 1 current energizer. Again, huge Nerf. I get that you're trying to discourage dual tanking, but what exactly is discouraging armor tankers from doing the dual tanking?
Remember I said shields would regenerate constantly, I.E no delay.
Reducing the Caldari shields by 3x would give 10 hp/s
With 3 complex shield energizers you get 206% increase to repair.
That adds up to around 31.8 shield repair per second discounting the 10% bonus of recharging level 5.
So you have around 472 HP that can be repaired in 15 seconds with no delay. This is huge, not only that but it also gives you a natural 7.5-10% damage reduction because it repairs per second.
As for armor I did say a mod should be made to discourage dual tanking, although dual tanking gets a huge hit since using shields without energizers means you will rep extremely slow.
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
warravens
Final Resolution.
2611
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:RedUvimhing on board shields repair would ultimately destroy the only reason to run shields in the first place. Plus rechargers/energizers would now be completely worthless.
I see you don't want to change HP on Shields extenders, that is apparently not an option. So if we throw that out here's what I would change:
Buff shield regulators and shield rechargers/energizers. Ideally these have to be worth more than pure HP and currently they aren't.
Fix scaling on shield extenders. Your numbers are fine, we can go with those.
Fix fitting costs on Shield extenders and rechargers/energizers. Why are these stupidly high in the first place? Hard to run a shield tank when you can't fit crap in comparison to an armor tank.
Armor should come nowhere close to shields in terms of repair (unless they run tons of reppers.) They have double the hp but you feel they need a comparable rep rate too? Don't forget they have alternative ways to heal, shields do not. Thus would ultimately mean that armor, on average, would rep better than shields. for shields you will rep at the same rate as now and without a delay, but you will need energizers which sacrifice no tank except dual tank. So I don't know what you mean about destroying the repair when in fact it is getting buffed in a way. As for armor I mean a rep tanked suit, a rep tanked suit would have slightly less repair similar for almost equal hp and less speed. Rep tanking should be viable for armor to with different drawbacks. Outside rep sources are highly uncommon so I never consider them. Energizers work as a percent of shield regen so any reduction to shield regen rate hits then doubly hard. I might be misunderstanding but you say you want to reduce "onboard shield repair by 3x." That's huge. For example, let's say shield regen is 100 (arguments and simplicity sake.) Energizers currently give 45% increase to shield regen rate (pro energizers are way too expensive to be used so disregard them.) Thus your shield regen is now 145. Reducing shield delay by 3x means shield regen is now 33. So with one energizer at +55%, you now have 51. That's a gigantic Nerf...even if you make energizers 100%, that still makes regen 66 with 1, and 2 is now 123 (after stacking penalty.) So 2 energizers aren't worth even 1 current energizer. Again, huge Nerf. I get that you're trying to discourage dual tanking, but what exactly is discouraging armor tankers from doing the dual tanking? Remember I said shields would regenerate constantly, I.E no delay. Reducing the Caldari shields by 3x would give 10 hp/s With 3 complex shield energizers you get 206% increase to repair. That adds up to around 31.8 shield repair per second discounting the 10% bonus of recharging level 5. So you have around 472 HP that can be repaired in 15 seconds with no delay. This is huge, not only that but it also gives you a natural 7.5-10% damage reduction because it repairs per second. As for armor I did say a mod should be made to discourage dual tanking, although dual tanking gets a huge hit since using shields without energizers means you will rep extremely slow. You clearly state to keep shield depletion delay, so you are not constantly repping. Again a huge hit to shield regen. One energizer now Is 43.5. That one second delay is pretty meaningless. Dual tanking armor tankers couldn't care less if their shields rep slowly, it's more buffer. They stack plates now, don't need a repper because the alternative ways to heal.
if your shields aren't depleted to 0 it's constant. And as I said there should be a mod to stop dual tanking for armkr.
For the Federation!
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BL4CKST4R
warravens
Final Resolution.
2616
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Posted - 2014.05.01 23:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Here is my attempt at compromising with what you said you want in your thread:
- Remove shield delay, so that there is only a depleted shield recharge delay.
- Reduce base shield recharge rates of suits by 30%.
- Move shield rechargers and energizers to low slots.
- Move armor repairers to high slots.
These changes would allow all of a suit's slots to be used for 1 particular tank and discourage non-Minmatar suits from dual tanking. [Shield modules][Shield energizers]: Proposed/CurrentComplex: 65/60% Enhanced: 45/45% Basic: 25/25% This 5% buff to the prototype module would make the shield energizers increase by a flat 20% per tier. [Shield rechargers]: Proposed/CurrentComplex: 45%/42% Enhanced: 30%/25% Basic: 15%/15% This buff the prototype module by 3% and made shield rechargers increase by a flat 15% per tier. [Shield extenders]: Proposed/CurrentComplex: 66/66 HP Enhanced: 44/33 HP Basic: 22/22 HP This 11 HP buff to the advanced module makes the shield extenders increase by a flat 22 HP per tier. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127230[Armor plates]: CurrentComplex: 135 HP Enhanced: 110 HP Basic: 85 HP Difference is 25 HP between tiers. [Ferroscale plates]: Proposed/CurrentComplex: 85/75 HP Enhanced: 60/50 HP Basic: 35 HP Difference is 25 HP between tiers, the gap between regular plates is 50 HP instead of 60. [Reactive plates]: Proposed/CurrentComplex: 70 HP & 2 HP/s / 60 HP & 2 HP/s Enhanced: 45 @ 2 HP/s / 40 HP @ 1 HP/s Basic: 20 @ 2 HP/s / 25 HP @ 1 HP/s The gap between tiers is 25, the gap between regular plates is 65. [Armor repairers]: Proposted/CurrentComplex: 6/5 Enhanced: 4/3 Basic: 2 2 HP/s between tiers [Gallente base armor repair] CurrentLight: 3 Medium: 2 Heavy: 1
That 30% Shield shield repair reduction is way to low at max level that's is over 60 Hp/s second that is way to high with energizers. that turns shield suits into mini rep tanked madrugars. That's around 15% hp per second, a madrugar reps at just under 10%.
For the Federation!
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