Swarms are an assistant AV.

If your referring to a forge gun you are still mistaken.

It just blows my mind that people cannot see how overpowered triple reps are...

I like the idea of active tanking, its good that gallente tanks are favoring this form of play... however.. a tank should not be completely invulnerable to any form of AV. Strong against it? Sure, but given sufficient time an AVer should be able to kill a tank standing still.

This is just complete nonsense that people are actually trying to argue this is okay...

smh...

You're slowly becoming my forum hero

Keep the Assault Forge Gun but bring it to a more balance AV level for Vehicles and remove prototype.
Than as you guy introduce Advance vehicles and prototype vehicles bring in the AVs of Advance and prototype at the same time.

I know a lot of people say AV shouldn't be able to solo a HAV "because it's a tank." I think AV should definitely kill a HAV alone if the rock-paper-scissors favor him and he is more skilled than the tanker or if he gets the tanker in a bad spot otherwise.

I support the idea of webifiers and other ewar stuff but if that grenade is gonna last 12 seconds, how many should you be able to carry? 24 seconds of slowed down by 60% is quite a lot. Obviosly I think there should be options other than the grenade that are more effective, stuff that restricts your other options. Like webifier equipment you lay on the ground for permanent 60% reduction in ~30m radius until someone destroys that.. Or kind of a repair tool with longer range webifying your target instead of repairing it.

My thoughts. MLT tanks are overperforming compared to actual tanks (which themselves can situationally overperform) for their comparative cost, either raise the cost for MLT (and justify the durability with the cost) or lower the cost of STD tanks.

Damage mods are wildly overpowering right now, two damage mods on a particle cannon take you straight from about 1800 to ~ 3100 damage a shot. Damage modules *must be reverted to how they functioned in 1.6 and prior patches*, where they either let you turn your turret better, get more shots off before overheating for the active modules, or the lowslot passive ones provided the actual damage boosts. Currently a single MLT dmg mod provides greater benefit than the old systems two lowslot modules and a level five skill - on demand, with no sp investment.

Railguns if they're going to keep their rate of fire need to have their damage lowered by about 200-300 points as the 'amazing tank battles' many would like to see don't happen at all because they are killed in two shots to a 2x dmg mod sica / gunnlogi.

The reduced slot count has nixed a lot of the diversity that even 1.6 had in terms of vehicles, and is part of what is affecting vehicles so badly - as all hardeners are active and almost all reps are completely passive tanks exist in a binary state - you can either kill it or you can't. Things should happen on a gradual scale, where 'if a tank sits in one spot long enough he will die even to MLT swarms, it may take a pretty long time depending on the 'level' of AV being brought out, but it will happen' to a state where 3-4 coordinated AV'ers will instablap vehicles.

Now to actually address your points.

1) KDR - I wouldn't actually address this as a 'metric' worth balancing around as a primary statistic.
2) Isk efficiency of vehicles vs infantry. This one is also quite tough, but I'd say that in their current state most vehicle users will acknowledge that they are (unless in a coordinated situation) extremely isk inefficient compared to infantry. This has a problem on both sides in that vehicles underperform when played solo, or overperform when played with a group. As it is, I think it's *mostly* fine right now, but I would like to see vehicles get slightly more isk efficient *without making them infantry murdering machines*. Isk efficiency could easily be boosted through WP for MCRU spawns, allowing tanks to replace a weapon turret with an active scanning station (functions like current infantry active scanners, instead of the giant pulsing scanner).
3a)Proto AV vs Proto tank should probably be at about a 2.5:1 ratio. I don't have any numbers to really support this idea, but I heavily feel that AV (even heavy av) should be a strong deterrent to equally fit vehicles, not instant death.
3b)Proto AV vs STD tank should be closer to a 1.5:1 ratio, where once again it's not instant death, but it is a big threat.
4) Start with the average players, then take a look at things where they might be overperforming and find out *why* things are like that.
5) Cant help you here.
6) Infantry don't like to use weapons that cannot kill other infantry, or put them at significant risk from other infantry.

To take someone elses words : There are too many differences between the tiers of AV and Vehicle, things need to be brought much closer into line with each other - aka tiericide.

I wonder if anyone realizes that swarms aren't meant to solo a tank...

I wonder if anyone realizes that Madrugars are Gallente vehicles, which translates to them being able to armor rep efficiently.

I wonder if anyone realizes that a triple rep Madrugar actually takes teamwork to take down.

I wonder if anyone realizes that any buffer to AV will give DS/ADS pilots an even bigger shaft.

I wonder when we'll get our God damned Amarr tanks and DS/ADS so we can armor tank properly.

I wonder...

People keep spewing the same garbage over and over again about "O man, I'm so hurtbutt about that one-seater tank being able to take out my guy and others when my Light AV Swarm Launcher can't even dent him! It should take TWO(2) people in a tank to operate it!"

I don't even need to tank to tell you how much of a dumbass excuse that is. This is a universe where a single pilot commands a Titan. I'm pretty damn sure a single tank driver should be operate and fire his tank, seeing as how we memory now. Any form of AV should require multiple (more than one (which means at least 2 (two))) people to take down any vehicle that isn't a LAV. This is not modern day where it takes 3-4 people to man a single tank. This is not reality. That's like saying my Dropship should take two people to fly because attack helicopters have 2 people; one to fly/shoot missiles and one to man the belly gun.

If anything, the rest of the racial tanks need to be brought in to make it more of a change-up where you'll get more tank v. tank battles. My dropship is a medium vehicle. An RDV is a medium vehicle. Why does my dropship have 1/3 the total HP of an RDV? Why are tanks easier to pop than an RDV? Nobody has thought around those lines. An RDV has more eHP than any tank and it's a medium vehicle. That means tanks should have around ~8,000 eHP or more since it's a heavy vehicle. Meaning another rework... disregard this last segment because It's more of an idea than anything.

the rep tank..built to withstand stupid idiots with swarm launchers. this is pretty spot on.


also its even dumber to completely disregard av and say its not a threat to tanks. thats why ppl lose their vehicle in the first place.

i would just love to have more ppl ignore me thinking im not an actual threat in game. because that means ill just have an easier time killing them as they would be completely caught of guard shitting their pants not knowing how to respond the second i start dishing out the damage...

the rep build is fairly effective in the right hands though. but hardener cycling or stacked hardeners is more of a problem than anything else. with the rep tank. i take in that full damage. only to rep it all up the moment they have to stop firing and reload. or let their blaster turret cool down. any sort of big strike including a well placed orbital can kill this tank really fast.

with stack hardeners however.i could quite possible survive a direct orbital strike.may be less likely now though with that nerf to hardeners. but still holds true in them shrugging off just about everything.

passive tanking like the rep tank. has been designed to withstand the multiple attacks over time. in other words. bug bites wont work on this type of fit. which means ull have to use alpha strikes to take it down which works really well against the rep tank fit. or any sort of weapon that has a higher dps than the vehicles rep rate. which can be done quite easily.

The math has been done and only a Sica can be OHK by a forge gun. This requires a maxed ou Breach hitting the tank in the sweet spot, no hardeners or additional shields or armor.