DUST Search - Proto swarms Vs 3 rep maddy (video)

CCP Rattati wrote:

KatanaPT wrote:

Actually, honestly i think the whole problem would be solved with this:

- Penalty (OR inability to fire) to large tank weapons against infantry, make them into what they must be, tank and installation killers. Now we have a giant shotgun on top of a tank. If a tanker wants to go against infantry then install small turrets, because thats what they are for.

I agree we should not be able to solo a tank, and i also agree to the current state of the tanks, they are hard to kill, fast, great tank killers and they can dominate the battlefield, the problem is that most of the tanks nowadays run a single large turret and can kill everything. What happened to small turrets? What happened to their original purpose? (vs infantry) Be it a blaster or a rail, the tank large turrets must be really effective against what they were designed to do, other tanks, installations, vehicles, etc. It maybe unrealistic, (try to think about a 120mm sabot from a M1 against a enemy soldier), but afterall this is a scifi game.

--> Bring back small turrets role against infantry and delegate large turrets to their job.

This would fix tanks. If the denizens of tankers who love to kill infantry want to continue doing it again, just equip 2 good small turrets, a good crew and let it rip.

I have been thinking about this, and make the small vehicle turrets a bit more fun to use. Maybe swarm launchers and HMG's as options as well. I can't hit a damn thing using moving blasters :(


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MINA Longstrike 608	Posted - 2014.04.30 04:03:00 - [1] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Gunnlogis are so UP :( What's really sickening is that the same swarmer would have wrecked a shield tank in relatively short order, assuming all else remained the same (no evasive action, etc). And Swarms are supposed to be STRONGER against armor !!1!11!!11! Yes they are, but armor is also supposed to be enduring where shields are supposed to have to GTFO if they start taking fire. That said this completely fucks the 'waves of opportunity' crap that was spouted, I almost want to return to 1.6 tanks with improvements to shield recharge and most of the current changes to AV. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike 618	Posted - 2014.04.30 08:52:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Not a dev, just a player. Someone said one AV guy shouldn't be able to solo a tank. Sure I see that. And I can scare one of those guys away in my proAV fit, maybe. But when it's three tanks, you need at least 6 guys to deploy in AV gear, to scare them away unless AV unites against one tank and instapops one at a time. In a pub, that's never going to happen. Every pub game I have played in maps where a tank can truly affect the battle, is won by the team with madrepper superiority. The balance is way better in non tanky maps right now. Sadly I don't see a lot of tank v tank battles either which is probably what tankers desire. This is a difficult problem and I know we have spent a lot of time on this internally 1) KDR of tanker vs non-tanker 2) ISK efficiency vs elite tanker comparable to elite assault player 3a) proto AV vs proto tanker 3b) proto AV vs standard tanker 3c) average AV needed to rapidly destroy a tank without tank recourse (2v1, 3v1, 4v1) 4) measuring the best tankers who are in the spotlight (very few) versus normal tankers who don't so so well 5) efficiency against infantry 6) nades and re's requre non slayer specialization, so AV is pretty inaccessible to majority of players. Instead of more tankers v nontankers, what are some simple ways to balance this? My thoughts. MLT tanks are overperforming compared to actual tanks (which themselves can situationally overperform) for their comparative cost, either raise the cost for MLT (and justify the durability with the cost) or lower the cost of STD tanks. Damage mods are wildly overpowering right now, two damage mods on a particle cannon take you straight from about 1800 to ~ 3100 damage a shot. Damage modules must be reverted to how they functioned in 1.6 and prior patches, where they either let you turn your turret better, get more shots off before overheating for the active modules, or the lowslot passive ones provided the actual damage boosts. Currently a single MLT dmg mod provides greater benefit than the old systems two lowslot modules and a level five skill - on demand, with no sp investment. Railguns if they're going to keep their rate of fire need to have their damage lowered by about 200-300 points as the 'amazing tank battles' many would like to see don't happen at all because they are killed in two shots to a 2x dmg mod sica / gunnlogi. The reduced slot count has nixed a lot of the diversity that even 1.6 had in terms of vehicles, and is part of what is affecting vehicles so badly - as all hardeners are active and almost all reps are completely passive tanks exist in a binary state - you can either kill it or you can't. Things should happen on a gradual scale, where 'if a tank sits in one spot long enough he will die even to MLT swarms, it may take a pretty long time depending on the 'level' of AV being brought out, but it will happen' to a state where 3-4 coordinated AV'ers will instablap vehicles. Now to actually address your points. 1) KDR - I wouldn't actually address this as a 'metric' worth balancing around as a primary statistic. 2) Isk efficiency of vehicles vs infantry. This one is also quite tough, but I'd say that in their current state most vehicle users will acknowledge that they are (unless in a coordinated situation) extremely isk inefficient compared to infantry. This has a problem on both sides in that vehicles underperform when played solo, or overperform when played with a group. As it is, I think it's mostly fine right now, but I would like to see vehicles get slightly more isk efficient without making them infantry murdering machines. Isk efficiency could easily be boosted through WP for MCRU spawns, allowing tanks to replace a weapon turret with an active scanning station (functions like current infantry active scanners, instead of the giant pulsing scanner). 3a)Proto AV vs Proto tank should probably be at about a 2.5:1 ratio. I don't have any numbers to really support this idea, but I heavily feel that AV (even heavy av) should be a strong deterrent to equally fit vehicles, not instant death. 3b)Proto AV vs STD tank should be closer to a 1.5:1 ratio, where once again it's not instant death, but it is a big threat. 4) Start with the average players, then take a look at things where they might be overperforming and find out why things are like that. 5) Cant help you here. 6) Infantry don't like to use weapons that cannot kill other infantry, or put them at significant risk from other infantry. To take someone elses words : There are too many differences between the tiers of AV and Vehicle, things need to be brought much closer into line with each other - aka tiericide. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike 620	Posted - 2014.04.30 09:12:00 - [3] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Great points here, awesome points. What I would like to add here is the acceleration buff for tanks was unnecessary. It needs to be reverted back to pre 1.7 levels. Agree? They need to be slowed down a bit, but not to 1.6 levels. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike 620	Posted - 2014.04.30 11:03:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Actually, honestly i think the whole problem would be solved with this: - Penalty (OR inability to fire) to large tank weapons against infantry, make them into what they must be, tank and installation killers. Now we have a giant shotgun on top of a tank. If a tanker wants to go against infantry then install small turrets, because thats what they are for. I agree we should not be able to solo a tank, and i also agree to the current state of the tanks, they are hard to kill, fast, great tank killers and they can dominate the battlefield, the problem is that most of the tanks nowadays run a single large turret and can kill everything. What happened to small turrets? What happened to their original purpose? (vs infantry) Be it a blaster or a rail, the tank large turrets must be really effective against what they were designed to do, other tanks, installations, vehicles, etc. It maybe unrealistic, (try to think about a 120mm sabot from a M1 against a enemy soldier), but afterall this is a scifi game. --> Bring back small turrets role against infantry and delegate large turrets to their job. This would fix tanks. If the denizens of tankers who love to kill infantry want to continue doing it again, just equip 2 good small turrets, a good crew and let it rip. I have been thinking about this, and make the small vehicle turrets a bit more fun to use. Maybe swarm launchers and HMG's as options as well. I can't hit a damn thing using moving blasters :( Blasters are way too accurate they need more dispersal just like the HMG did. I'd love to see more ways to have people in my vehicle and have them be useful without necessarily giving them a weapon that they can use to waste ammo / screw up ambushes. As I said earlier I'd love to see a 'turret' that's a long range (150m 45degree) scanner - it probably doesn't have the best precision either but it helps out my teammates and generates a lot of WP to the people in my vehicle (as well as myself). I mean when I do have a friend in my tank this is what he's usually doing anyways - watching the map and letting me know where stuff is in relation to me, and occasionally firing the turret against called targets. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.