Leither Yiltron
Twilight Sparkle Best Pony Corp
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Posted - 2014.04.28 23:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So let's break this down:
Vell0cet wrote:NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS
It's true that the tiericide that Dust needs isn't equivalent to the one that Eve underwent. The two games are different. Saying that what people are asking for is wrong because they want something different is bonkers. We'll make this conversation about me, since I'm an ancient supporter of suit tiericide and can define the context of it for you. (This post's from September of last year. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1272775#post1272775 )
Vell0cet wrote:
RISK vs. ISK
This is a very rich and interesting mechanic, that not only defines DUST, but distinguishes it from all other FPS games in the market. Choice, consequences, meaning: itGÇÖs the GÇ£special sauceGÇ¥ of DUST 514.
So let's take the time here to clarify what tiericide for Dust actually consults. Again, if you disagree with this approach your problem is with me, not with some nebulous undefined "tiericide supporter" group with equally nebulous definitions.
The core unifying idea of tiericide in Dust is this: as the suit tiers are currently constructed, the ratio of utility gained for ISK spent (utility/cost) is at worst the same for every single level of suit. Realistically as you go up the tiers the utility/cost ratio actually IMPROVES. That means that the more ISK you're allowed to spend the more utility you get. This fundamental flaw with the current suit balancing causes an incredible number of negative side-effects.
Dust 514's design should shine with its RISK vs REWARD philosophy- and the current state of suit tiering undermines it. Because the utility/cost ratio as you upgrade in suit tiers improves rather than decreases up the tree, risk remains essentially unchanged as you climb higher. Your reward, meanwhile, ratchets upward as the incredible utility of higher tier suits allows you to maximize ISK returns from matches.
When I was introduced to Dust, the trumpeted concept from CCP was exponentially decreasing UC ratio in the suit tiers of the game. This fundamental decision would allow player skill to shine through as the factor in day-to-day engagements and encourage the kind of diverse cost vs. utility decision-making that you laud in your post here. Instead that decision-making is flattened to a simple "can I afford the variance?" calculation. It also shatters the "visceral" initial experience of Dust 514 for new players. Because of the easy access veterans have to gain higher utility for their ISK, we all get the pride and joy of explaining to noobies how their first months of Dust are going to be hell.
Vell0cet wrote:AUR GEAR
Tiericide would ruin the AUR market. AUR gear promises to give early access to gear before you have the skills to use it. This goes away when everyone has access to everything with minimal SP requirements. I donGÇÖt know what percentage of DUST 514GÇÖs revenue is produced by AUR gear sales vs. Boosters, but I suspect this would hurt CCPGÇÖs bottom line.
It's an open secret that their biggest money spinners by a large margin are boosters. AUR gear is useless when your game doesn't retain players for long enough to convert them into paying customers. There is no incentive to buy better gear to play a game that you didn't have a good experience with.
Vell0cet wrote:
POWER DIVIDE
Either the power gap is sufficient to incentivize players to commit for the long haul, and put in the time and effort, or itGÇÖs not. Tiericide greatly reduces this incentive.
This statement just downright isn't sound. Dust 514's strength lies in providing the freedom of options to make smart choices which dynamically change your experience. That's the leverage a power gap of any sort is supposed to provide. What it's not supposed to do is guarantee that your gameplay experience is one with flat decision-making: achieve a high SP total while not enjoying yourself, then throw ISK at your suits and improve your gameplay experience by tormenting the next batch of new playres. That's the dynamic a widening power gap creates, and it is a large culprit behind why player retention is so low.
Vell0cet wrote:
NPE
I can assure you that new players will continue to be stomped even if all gear was STD and there was no SP. Teamwork, knowledge of the maps/game mechanics, and experience are huge advantages in this game.
Your argument here is refuted by a vast body of experimental evidence- other games exist, there are veterans in those games, and yet those games have growing player bases. Hell, even Eve has a slowly growing subscriber base despite its similarly punishing learning curve. Although tutorials are helpful, they're ultimately not some sort of cure-all. Most people don't even read the tutorials for games.
Saying that improving the tutorial alone will solve issues with the NPE in the face of the current UC ratio for suit tiers is like saying this: Reading The Art of War will make you A LOT better at winning battles with an army of 500 guys vs 1000 than you would have without The Art of War. That statement is absurd, you're outnumbered 2 to 1 book or not. The book doesn't hurt, but the tools you're given to fight with are pitiful compared to what you're pitted against.
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Leither Yiltron
Twilight Sparkle Best Pony Corp
886
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Posted - 2014.04.28 23:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
THE ECONOMY SUCKS
Part of the problem with PRO gear is that the economy is broken. With DNS taking over PC there is way too much ISK being generated without the right ISK sinks to destroy it.
The issue of suit tiering has been around for a very, very long time. That post I referenced up there- that was from September. PC's status as a massive ISK faucet isn't good and it has highlighted suit tiering issues. To the point- the active community had already dwindled to its current core of dedicated fans way before Kane started wheeling and dealing. The tiny shadow of a community left fighting in PC is the reason why that situation is what it is anyways.
I'll say this for a third time- in your post you made a lot of logical, sound conclusions which were directed at hypothetical remedies to the problems with suit tiering. Those are fantastic commentary that can drive us toward an actually functional solution. They do not add up to the problem not existing.
There have been quite a lot of potential specific implementations of fixing suit tiering, and a lot of great ideas. In the short term those aren't the highest community priority, though. CCP are game designers- they design games. Our goal as a community shouldn't be to try to tell artists how to make their work, but to convince CCP that the work needs doing. IE: that the way suits are tiered in Dust IS a problem with crippling consequences.
Vell0cet wrote:TL;DR: tiericide is f*cking stupid.
This is in something like the top 3 on the list of ways to communicate ineffectively.
Soraya Xel wrote:Tiericide is one of those buzzwords that gets flown around a lot, I think without everyone realizing it's implications or what it means. I am unconvinced "tiericide" is the magical fix-all for the game. And emphasizing ISK efficiency would do wonders, as people can be competitively marked using any tier of gear, based on how well they use it.
Like I detailed in the previous post, there is a fundamental unifying concept behind tiericide. Deriding it as not a "magical fix-all" for the game is a straw man. The word does get used as a buzzword, and that's why I'm providing a firm definition of what tiericide entails. I'm not claiming that it's is a magical cure-all, nor does anyone expect any change to be some sort of panacea for Dust's problems since those don't really exist. I agree that the word
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