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Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
16
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Posted - 2014.04.28 21:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey Vell,
I assume this is in response to Iron Sabre's opinion that tiericide is the solution, or that he was introducing what tiericide is to the general population in hopes of when its introduced to the game that the backlash will be minimal. Because CCP has used the concept in EVE the natural inclination to use it in Dust would be there, so Iron either sees it as a good option (it isnt) or is telling us how it is because CCP wants to bring it in and they need community support to do so.
Tiericide is not a solution, it shouldn't even be considered as an option, thats how bad the concept is. I
f you read what I wrote to iron sabre, you can see that tiericide clearly widens the gap that is it supposedly addressing (you do a great job showing how it would widen the gap).
There is only one solution to matchmaking, in game balance in matchmaking process, and that is a 2-fold solution based on a value of WP + SP, or say skill + advantages gained by skill points. Here is a quick summary:
0-4m SP: this is what we will call the extended academy. All std weapons, suits, classes will be available. There is NO ISK involved in spending, dying but ISK will be rewarded from matches allowing players to get a nice lump sum of ISK when leaving. No tanks or drop ships will be available here to be called in past the 1 of each which will be available at the start of the match, so players can get experience using them.
5-9m SP lets call this the Novice or Beginner Phase: players will be given the option to use militia vehicles in battle, players will be given a stat reset upon graduation which they can use only during this phase and may not use it after.
10-14m and 15-19m SP: intermediate, this will be the beginning of separating and introducing skill to determine who matchmaking is made. Players will be matched based on average WP + SP to create a player # which will be used by Scotty to determine your equally skilled opponents. Squads with more than 3, only the top 3 players scores will be used when making a balanced match.
The ceiling, which is an attribute of tiericide in Dust is around 25-26m SP, but diminishing returns begin around 22-23m SP whereby players going from lv4 to lv5 get marginal increase in stats. Again, players will be grouped upon skill number within the 20m+ SP range.
Tiercide is a joke, but balanced matchmaking is what the game requires. It fixes the NPE, it fixes many of the stomps, the skilled vs unskilled blowouts.. The only downside is that without a solid NPE the lower end of the tier wont have many options due to low # of players if the system is not fixes very shortly. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
You have many many strong points, its a great read, very good opinion supported by strong arguments. I hope my suggestion of dividing based on SP and then SP + skill is a possible solution, as you have shown and I have previously argued, cap'ing gesr is a terrible terrible idea. It only extends the problem and does not address its core issues. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cotsy wrote:You have many many strong points, its a great read, very good opinion supported by strong arguments. I hope my suggestion of dividing based on SP and then SP + skill is a possible solution, as you have shown and I have previously argued, cap'ing gesr is a terrible terrible idea. It only extends the problem and does not address its core issues. So how's gear with 0 sp permanency any better? This quickly adds into 0 Sp permanency into fits and to an extent the soldier ultimately.
How is 0 SP gear any better? Not sure if you mean how I made my 0-4m SP battle academy or not.
A: There is no 0 SP, SP is gained passively therefore a player is never at 0 SP, he starts off at 400,000k and he is able to gain SP + ISK via battle academy until he reaches the next level. SP is only a factor until a player reaches 9m SP and then after he is sorted by skill level, but within the frameworks of SP. If you are referring to my idea that all std gear should be available in the battle academy, that idea is based on showing players the games variety and giving them experience playing with all weapons, gear, suits so they know what they like the best and can skill into it afterwards. Limiting players and punishing their choice to try out weapons by making them pay for it via AUR or wasting SP isn't helping the NPE. People want to try everything, see what they like, see what the game has to offer and then once they leave the Academy will have a goal in which to work for.
If you are referring to gear you can get with 0 SP invested, that should be the militia gear? I'm sort of confused I think you mean BPO's but you would have said BPO's or militia gear.
A: BPO gear cost 0 ISK and can have an impact on the ISK aspect, either by offering lower payouts in battle or by offering advantages to players??! Is that what you are saying I hardly think BPO's have an impact so great they need to be addressed, passed adding in their intended value in the layout system (if you wanted to). Some BPO's allow 0 SP to be invested, some allow low levels of SP to get decent gear, but BPO's nor cheap gear usage should be a concern. So gear with 0 asap, like crappy BPO's arent any better, they out you at a disadvantage cause those holding them of course are from open or closed beta and you match up vs better gear in match, so skill determines your opponents.
Maybe you mean this:
If you are referring to my point previously, whereby I said even if players are using the same gear the player who has Higher SP invested and received boosts to mods and suit.. So a tiericide system does not work because it immediately does the thing you are trying to prevent by limiting gear etc, it provides an advantage to the gear you are limiting.
I am not really sure the point you are trying to make, 0 SP would not be added into anything. The level of weapon, or suit or anything you decide to invest i to doesn't affect my tier system, it only affects ThE EVE to dust concept. Those who cannot afford things due to SP are placed within the same system of the tier, so others will be facing similar challenges. If you referring to how BPO's affect the tier, well most people with BPO's are 20m+ and their PBO's are going to hold up to advanced gear very well.
If you can clarify I would be happy to explain what you mean in more detail. |
Cotsy
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:So you support pay to win then right?
A little open ended here, but the idea of AUR being purchased would greatly help CCP. The idea of a matchmaking tier system as I have described it would be based on SP at low levels and SP + skill at higher levels.
If one is able to get AUR gear at a lower level, it would provide a marginal advantage over his fellow beginners, or battle academy members. CCP is not a pay to win, because everyone can purchase the same gear either via AUR or time/playing the game. Having a tier system like I suggested would be a greater benefit to CCP money wise but would only give players a marginal advantage and for a very very short time. AUR would also allow players in the second bracket to use all the gear they used in Academy, which would encourage players to spend more money, and doesn't provide any advantage.
AUR provides very small advantages in the early process, and frankly, none at later tiers.
The game is far from pay to win, it's more of the EVE model whereby the longer you're account has been active the more likely you are given the advantage. This doesn't always hold true because boosters, and time played, but it's not too far off the EVE model. |
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