|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
933
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 19:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:I have yet to find a real source to this animosity towards DNS. Just more tears and excuses why corps didn't do anything for a year to keep up with competition.
SoTa, I'm not sure if I can give you the "real" answer but I can provide you with my observations of what lead us here.
1) The initial concerns grew from perceptions that Kain Spero was potentially using some level of insight gained by his position as a CPM member. Clearly this has never been proven nor will it. I donGÇÖt think heGÇÖs conducted any type of GÇ£insider tradingGÇ¥ so to speak but itGÇÖs very natural and probably correct to assume that his deep understanding of the game and knowledge of likely developmental scenarios informs his decisions.
I actually donGÇÖt mind what Kain Spero the player has done, however, Kain has unintentionally blurred the perception of the Player vs the CPM member in some of his interactions with the community and certainly lot of his guys feed that perspective with their comments. I do think Kain has the best interest of the game at heart and itGÇÖs very difficult to square his player persona with the CPM activities since folks believe the CPM should be a champion of the community of sorts.
2) DNS BlackGǪaka DNS Bat.Schit.Crazy. His interaction with the community as a prominent EVE player and leading contender for CSM9 has clearly been the driving force behind the friction in the community. I know Hans and some others are just saying GÇ£itGÇÖs all a fa+ºadeGÇ¥ wellGǪperception is reality and particularly in Dust where you donGÇÖt have the same level of social interaction as you do in EVE. I have zero problem with taking over 100% of MH if your effort and the mechanics allow itGǪI have a REAL problem that heGÇÖs trying to set himself up as CCP BLACK and demand we all play by his rules to play at all.
He jumped the shark pretty bad in that podcast and a few other times in EVE coms that were being recorded when he very clearly and repeatedly said GÇ£F#ck the Community, I donGÇÖt need themGÇ¥ and continue to build on that theme. Kain and others in DNS hadnGÇÖt heard those statements for a few days and continued to come to strongly come to his defenseGǪ.that made everyone with DNS tags look like a$$hats that even the itGÇÖs just GÇ£in-gameGÇ¥ smack talk wouldnGÇÖt cover.
Even quite a few EVE guys that frankly donGÇÖt give a damn about Dust have messaged me and let me know that they are dropping him from Corp ballets because of his comments. That was pretty telling.
LastlyGǪa lot of folks are actually glad that a known entity like Black was taking such vocal interest in the game but they want that voice to call for making the game better not an ego mirror for an individual. HereGÇÖs a fact for youGǪwe were even trying to reach out to him about working with us in Dust a few weeks before Dirt Nap made their official appearance in Dust. IGÇÖve gotten incredible razzing internal to our alliance leadership in retrospect of that once folks saw how he interacts with people and frankly seems to care way more about himself than anything else.
3) Mechanics. It is absolutely technically correct that DNS can be stopped by the other players of Dust outside DNS. From a practical standpoint, itGÇÖs unfeasible based on the mechanics that are currently in play. The imbalance of ISK, clone pack size, and logistics (or really lack thereof) grant DNS massive advantages. To be clear, I seriously applaud the time and effort and homework guys did to accomplish what youGÇÖve done.
LotGÇÖs of corps willingly walked away from PC several months ago (including us) due to mechanics, lag, refusal to bring in outside players, and ultimately not being able to treat the game like a second job at times. For us (OSG) that seriously puts us behind the 8-ball in trying to get a foothold without renting into DNS and/or emptying the coffers very quickly with costly wins or losses. The ISK imbalance is probably the ultimate issue at this pointGǪask Kain, I suspect heGÇÖll agree. In retrospect, I donGÇÖt know if we would have walked away knowing how things would develop but the decision made sense at the time 6moGÇÖs ago.
OSG is an example of a Corp, and in some cases individual players, that simply off-ramped and are paying for it. We know that and arenGÇÖt whining about it; we are working to fix things on our end. HoweverGǪyou not acknowledging the significant ways the playing field is stacked in your favor in many ways doesnGÇÖt make you any better than those pointing fingers and griping.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
934
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: OSG is an example of a Corp, and in some cases individual players, that simply off-ramped and are paying for it. We know that and arenGÇÖt whining about it; we are working to fix things on our end. HoweverGǪyou not acknowledging the significant ways the playing field is stacked in your favor in many ways doesnGÇÖt make you any better than those pointing fingers and griping.
Mechanics suck, sure, and give the edge to the group on the defense, which isn't all that strange when you think about it, they should find a real way to give defenders an advantage, I was thinking something a long the lines of purchasable items usable on districts that grant DPS/EHP/Speed bonuses to your team. But, i digress, the mechanics blows. But what blows the most is how you guys want to segregate a group for trying to 'win' this game. How dare some of you? ML especially has absolutely no room to talk down to DNS about what they're doing - And I hope they remember all the bs they're posting this month when they come asking for help 4 months down the line. But, either way, I'm glad to see a reasonable poster appear finally. I hadn't realized how far reaching DNSBlack hate really was. DNS Dust side has no intention of following what he said in the Podcast concerning the tournament bs. Or not working with the community. Quite the opposite in fact - the community NEEDS to be on board, we either sell it to you guys, or don't do it.
One point, SoTa... I'm not "you guys".
I don't speak for Thor and his team and my POV was only based on my personal observations and what I can speak of with my corp / alliance.
I'm pretty sure I pointed that I have no issue with you achieving the level of sucess that you have - far from it, it's a solid accomplishment. My point is that many folks in DNS, and you on occaision, fail to acknowledge the inherent advantages that you have and simply say "get good". In my view that can be as bad as folks just pointing fingers at you and saying you're cheating (which you certainly aren't doing). Not trolling or poking...it is what it is.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
934
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:You need to stop focusing on the obvious troll and focus on the real content of my posts.
I was only responding to the component I had issue with the post. I generally don't go for the trolling aspect so I'm kind of oblivious. I've found that a lot of folks have pretty keen perspenctive on things or at least valid points different from mine and it can quickly get lost with the forum sniping.
That said, as much of a circus act the War Room is it can be a good spot for real discussion on how to imporve things.
I appreciate your comments and hope you and DNS Dust actually follow through. My only concern is that the whole DNS Black thing blew back so bad that you might want to consider distancing yourself from him. SoTa Nap Squad (SNaP)???
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
939
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 18:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:
sota pop, it's spelt how it looks. When I get on I'll throw ya msg and we'll hook up eventually, possibly with a few others so we can all talk together about what can be done with the current state of things. Mind you, I am only one guy myself, all I can do is try. But we can at least see where we can take things.
SoTa, Thor...
If you guys are serious about looking at ways to get all facets of the community to work towards unified ways to make the game better I would like to help.
It's hard to fight through the meta and "in game" slap fights for folks to see that many of the top tier PC corps genuinely want the game to get better and community to grow just like it's difficult for those guys to see everyone elses position and what they are trying to do to get better.
I'm all about competitive play, meta fun, and all that jazz.... however, at the core though we are all in the game togther and frankly we wouldn't be here if we didn't want (or at least hope) it to get better.
Shoot me a note; we can link up in-game or skype.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
941
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 21:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
SoTasLost Property wrote:Everything Dies wrote:SoTasLost Property wrote:How about both AE and ERA/NF pull out of PC completely and go back to mercing? I must admit - it was way more fun back then. This empire business is both messy and work.
In my honest (and completely unworthy of discussing PC-related matters) opinion, the underlined part is what really doomed the current version of PC. You guys reached the point to where buying your services pretty much guaranteed a victory; naturally, such a setup automatically favored the older/richer corps that could afford you all as opposed to the smaller corps that were looking to make a name for themselves. The moment smaller corps could begin to mount any sort of threat to the older/big corps they could call mercs in and put the problem to bed for good. If PC is going to become anything more than what it currently is, there needs to be some sort of penalty for bringing in outside help--for example, a small loss of clones (in the actual battle) for each ringer brought in (with smaller penalties for bringing in alliance members) to promote the idea of corporations being self-sufficient. I also think that there should be some of limit placed on a player's ability to fight in PC match after PC match to reduce the ability of a corp to rely almost exclusively on their "A" team. It could be something like having a "travel time" that prevents you from fighting in one district and then immediately fighting in another; such a change could make strategy have a much more prominent role in battles as corps would have to decide where to divvy up their best talent if they're facing multiple battles. Last but not least, strength in numbers should actually mean something. A corporation of 2,000 mediocre players should pose an equal--if not greater--threat than a smaller corp of top-tier players.Just my two cents. I actually agree with your first paragraph. It's 100% correct - but this IS a mercenary game - so what can you do to limit them and still allow them to feel like mercs? And wish you didn't write the second :D
Ah, but the third paragraph is the trick isn't it?
That little game mechanic feeds a lot of the current problems and if deployment capacity or movement logisitcs mattered more it would change the environment overnight. You could still run a very brisk and profitable merc business but have a lot more folks able to participate in some form or fashion.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
|
|
|