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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
869
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aurum =/= ISK, so an Aurum sale is not overpowered or pay to win. As Aurum and ISK have different relative values, and are acquired in different ways, there's really no imbalance of any kind.
Aurum sales are entirely designed to encourage players to spend money that pays for DUST development, so you should really be glad people are buying. Those who buy Aurum pay for you to play the game. In this game we have a formula for calculating Aurum value to ISK value to cash value, you are right ofc about the people paying to develop the game but you miss the point OP is trying to make.
Op wants reduced prices on ISK gear so OP can spend their aurum on boosters not guns. Instead there is a proliferation of deals on Prototype low skill gear that is allowing many people to just pay $20 to go and destroy hundreds of millions of isk (entire community) at very low real life cost to themselves where you or I may skill and grind and grind and grind some more to get the isk to pay to proto stomp one match because of aurum gear users continuously stomping where one would expect to be on even footing in a vs match. In all reality it is not even footing because the person isn't actually losing assets (in-game) that they can't afford to replace out of game.
For us these sales cause an imbalance in the market, takes isk out of our pocket and gives it to players with cash in hand because our weapons (Isk market) are valued higher than the other aurum market weapons of the same type. Resulting in lower payouts based on Isk destroyed in match and leading to payout screens that make no sense when facing proto bears.
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
870
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Even in EVE, people who choose to spend more money on the game can get more in-game assets easier. This isn't unusual, nor is it likely to go away. Given that all free-to-play games use a model where you pay more money to get more stuff, I do suggest you get used to it.
Because there is no player market, there's no Aurum value to ISK value. Aurum variants are distinctly more valuable per item than their ISK counterpart, due to the skill requirements. Aurum can be effectively calculated as isk in relation to the weapon values. X Proto weapon costs Y isk, X aurum proto weapon costs X2 aurum, Aurum cost then is calculate like this: Y/X2=Z isk
And yet again you make my point, the SP required to use is lower even though the same weapon in isk is not. Value though has numerical equivalents so calculate a weapon vs weapon comparison to see but there is a value conversion isk to aurum for you and it doesn't need a player market to figure out what people will pay for it. Stop arguing a lost point sir, think about your response.
A Brave New Eden
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
870
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Aurum can be effectively calculated as isk in relation to the weapon values. X Proto weapon costs Y isk, X aurum proto weapon costs X2 aurum, Aurum cost then is calculate like this: Y/X2=Z isk As stated in my post, this really doesn't make any sense. Aurum gear is more valuable than ISK gear due to it's skill requirements. When a player market exists, I can guarantee you that Aurum gear will sell for a higher price than their ISK counterparts. Until there is a player market it is the equivalent value as per CCP. Don't argue where you should be asking if it does make the game unbalanced, we pay devs you pay devs, I have a big budget for CCP products, don't confuse the issue.
A Brave New Eden
Forge a new destiny
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Heavenly Daughter, let me ask you then: How would you propose CCP makes money on DUST, in order to pay the developers to improve it, and to keep the servers running every day? I mean, there's some ways Aurum item options could be shifted, but there's an inherent model that someone, somewhere, has to pay for the game. And that for them to be willing to pay, it has to be a valuable enough purchase for them to feel it's worth giving CCP their credit card. CCP has stated in the past that the money generated by Dust doesn't actually even come close to covering the cost of development. It is the Eve players who are paying to produce this game so you can think about Aurum as paying devs all you want, I am sure some of the cash needed to keep the game going comes from Dust but the vast majority of it does not.
Having deals on Aurum items doesn't actually increase the rate at which players spend cash on the game, rather it allows them to buy more of the same assets they would purchase anyways. This in fact reduces their need to inject cash into the game and rather than increasing the cash flow for CCP more likely reduces it.
A Brave New Eden
Forge a new destiny
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
872
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:CCP has stated in the past that the money generated by Dust doesn't actually even come close to covering the cost of development. It is the Eve players who are paying to produce this game so you can think about Aurum as paying devs all you want, I am sure some of the cash needed to keep the game going comes from Dust but the vast majority of it does not. I would love to have some sort of evidence of this claim. If you have anything to back this, please post it here. Its mentioned in the Eve Fanfest 2012 videos available on youtube, given the timeframe in which I wanted to reply to you in I didn't have time to pour over the hours of video for a timestamp. Yes those vids are 2 years old, but the fact remains 3-5000 players playing Dust cannot support the game's development on their own, Eve servers being our battle servers and the fact that the game takes place in New Eden not in a separate universe (One Universe//One War) supports my claims that the cash is largely pulled from the 100k+ Eve players all paying monthly subscription fees.
Draco Cerberus wrote:Having deals on Aurum items doesn't actually increase the rate at which players spend cash on the game, rather it allows them to buy more of the same assets they would purchase anyways. This in fact reduces their need to inject cash into the game and rather than increasing the cash flow for CCP more likely reduces it.
Soraya Xel wrote:Actually, a lot of people will buy more than they need when things are on sale, or be encouraged to maybe make a jump to buying Aurum stuff when they haven't before. If sales didn't increase the amount of money brought in by a company, nobody would do sales on anything.
They may buy more than they would otherwise but that doesn't mean they spend more cash just that it goes into more weapons rather than boosters.
Edit: Do you have a link to some sales figures that can back up your claim?
A Brave New Eden
Forge a new destiny
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
872
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Posted - 2014.04.22 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The idea that CCP intends to fund DUST with EVE subscriptions is pretty crazy. There'd have been no reason to make the game then. Sure, some revenue from EVE might be used to support the initial investment, but DUST needs to make money on it's own, or it won't be worth keeping long-term. Many indications I've heard are actually that DUST is indeed profitable. Though given the nature of game development, it will take a couple years until it makes back it's own development costs, which is not unusual for any MMO.
I really need a link and a if it's in a video, a timestamp, to go any further in discussing that claim.
People spending less on boosters and more on gear might actually be a good thing. Boosters help widen the SP gap between veterans and newbies. That being said, again, I really need to see the claim that discounts on gear is going to cause them to buy gear instead of boosters, rather than in addition to boosters. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me, and I don't think either of us have evidence that it is the case. You're off topic, and again go watch the videos, I did...they put them there to educate people about the game so go educate yourself. I have been since I started playing Eve and continue to as I play Dust and Eve together, my subs pay for my FTP game play time so if you have any concerns about my opinion that you are arguing a lost point first educate yourself on how the game was originally developed. Do you really think closed beta players were the only source of funding for open beta? We all bought assets using cash during that time and still have assets from that time. Watch the videos. The player base has only maybe tripled and again it is not an issue about CCP selling stuff cheaper it is an issue with the lack of discounts on isk based gear to go along with the aurum purchased gear costs.
I am not going to watch near to 10 hours of video to re-educate myself on what I remember seeing 2 years ago while anticipating Open Beta sir, find youtube search "Eve Fanfest Dust 2012" they are all good for your viewing enjoyment.
A Brave New Eden
Forge a new destiny
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
872
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Posted - 2014.04.22 16:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Yes, DUST was developed with other money than Aurum stuff. (Possibly some EVE revenue, and very likely outside investors.) But since CCP's a business, and they make things under the intention of turning a profit, the long term plan is obviously that DUST's own income, from Aurum, needs to eventually make back the money they invested in developing the game. And turn a profit on top of that.
I'm not going to go back and rewatch the entire YouTube history of CCP because someone makes an unsubstantiated claim on a forum post. If you want to claim it as a fact, you should be able to reference it.
So should you noob.
A Brave New Eden
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
873
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Did you actually read the first paragraph of that post before you replied to it? nope did you read mine?
A Brave New Eden
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
873
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Posted - 2014.04.22 17:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
I notice also that the lack of an option to purchase the less skill requirement gear at a reduced cash cost is a big enticement to buy the gear for people who want to try it before investing SP, I get it, the problem with it is that it devalues our isk purchased gear and removes the incentive to actually use isk based gear in a small part and in a larger part just removes isk from the game. This idea that there be isk sales as well as aurum sales is a really great idea and would motivate more people to combat those PC players (we all know who I am talking about no reference needed) with comparable gear sans the need to go out of our way to grind or fork over our CC to CCP when we are already doing so for other things and just way the same stroke other folks are getting already.
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Forge a new destiny
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