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Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.21 21:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lol I said before 1.7 patch notes/blogs were out that the whole thing was a bad idea. But since so many people posted on the forums trying to say pre-1.7 TvT and TvAV was perfect I gave up and waited....and now my tank is a battleship, floating in the tears of the unreasonable >:) . |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.22 00:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Lol I said before 1.7 patch notes/blogs were out that the whole thing was a bad idea. But since so many people posted on the forums trying to say pre-1.7 TvT and TvAV was perfect I gave up and waited....and now my tank is a battleship, floating in the tears of the unreasonable >:) . It was nowhere near perfect. It was as broken as now.
My point exactly. I was stupid enough to think that maybe if we got enough AV and Tankers working together on reasonable proposals we could get CCP to implement some. But we had too many AV players claiming AV vs Vehicles was totally balanced pre-1.7, some going so far as saying large blasters needed to be nerfed (which they have been btw). There were also tankers who refused to compromise on the Gunni v Maddy debate. |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.22 01:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Repper tanks are good at sustained damage from forges and swarms, but are vulnerable to alpha damage of rails. Buffer tanks can take the alpha damage well, but have a problem with AV because they have a hard time recovering their HP.
Just because a repper tank is good against what you bring to the table doesn't mean they are broken. Thats like saying a sniper rifle is broken because it can kill you outside of your shotgun range.
Plus, with militia tanks as horribly cheap as they are, and for no SP investment, why don't you have a sica to deal with reppers and your AV to deal with buffers? becuse they are lazy and want an instant "i win" button against tanks and want to do anything to get the dominant hav fits nerfed and any av buffed
Most are pretty reasonable, but there is a minority group on the forums that want vehicles insta-popped by AV. |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.22 23:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:It's hard to say it is broken when the two things meant to counter Madrugars- rails and missiles, are the only things that, quite honestly, take down 500k maddies like duvolles take out a C-1 Anything.
It is an anti-infantry fit IMO. Only with sustained DPS from multiple AV can it be brought down which makes it seem OP. Compare that with a heavily tanked Madrugar fit to take out tanks- damage mods, double hardeners and a rep will defeat that tank so long as it can sustain its DPS for long enough- I guess that\s the wild card.
However, it seems every module tanks can equip becomes horribly powerful when stacked. I laugh when I can't put on 2 nitros, but I can stack 3 hardeners and become invincible or 3 damage mods and literally >3-shot any tank build imaginable. It leads me to believe that every module should be able to be equipped, but have much more severe stacking penalties than infantry modules do.
With the cooldowns as long as they are, and the hardeners getting nerfed back to pre-1.7, I think adding a second module should give a bonus to the cooldown time of the original instead of a clear bonus. So instead of 2 hardeners or damage mods making you crazy strong or powerful, they would give maybe a 15 or 20 percent reduction to the cooldown of the original. This does nothing for the armor reps but those could be balanced normally. Also, I don't think blasters should be limited to AI. In Uprising and Chromosome letting a blaster tank get close to you could lead to a very quick and violent end (well maybe not so quick in Uprising with the reppers glitched).
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Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 00:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:They are vulnerable to burst damage
PE's
RE's
Missile Tanks
Rail Tanks
Breach FG's (in Pairs though with a little skill and luck you can R@pe them solo)
2PRO swarms
Might I say that's a lot of hard counters 1 Breach can 1 shot it in the weakspot btw but that takes positioning/patience Also AFG can do the job, again with 2ppl much quicker No. Not even a IAFG, completely maxed and hitting the weak spot. Only one tank can be one-shotted, a out of the box Sica, and it must be with the above scenario. AFG can easily take out a repper tank. IAFG does 1500 per shot. Now add on the bonus to armor damage, we get 1650 damage. Prof 5 yields us 1875 a shot. Throw on 2 complex mods (4 are possible) for a total benefit of ~9% more damage. We arrive at 2010 damage a shot. Now to get the IAFG, you need operation 5. This bonus gives you a 2.25 second refire rate. Damage over time between shots gives a DPS of 893.33 DPS. This is without hitting the weakspot. Highest reps possible on a Maddy are 512.5 hp/s, coming from two complex reps and an enhanced rep at repair rate level 5. So you got 380.83 DPS over the reps of the best repper Maddy. Add in damage to the weakspot, and the DPS climbs even higher. This is from a single forge gun, maxed out, against a repper Maddy, maxed out. The single assault forge gun already wins.
What is this, MATH!?!?! What kind of trickery is this?! |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 01:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:
AFG can easily take out a repper tank.
IAFG does 1500 per shot. Now add on the bonus to armor damage, we get 1650 damage. Prof 5 yields us 1875 a shot. Throw on 2 complex mods (4 are possible) for a total benefit of ~9% more damage. We arrive at 2010 damage a shot.
Now to get the IAFG, you need operation 5. This bonus gives you a 2.25 second refire rate. Damage over time between shots gives a DPS of 893.33 DPS. This is without hitting the weakspot. Highest reps possible on a Maddy are 512.5 hp/s, coming from two complex reps and an enhanced rep at repair rate level 5. So you got 380.83 DPS over the reps of the best repper Maddy. Add in damage to the weakspot, and the DPS climbs even higher.
This is from a single forge gun, maxed out, against a repper Maddy, maxed out. The single assault forge gun already wins.
Let's see here. 9s (Madrugar TTK w/IAFG) / .215 (Average Human Reaction Time) = 41.86 So in-order to die to to an IAFG, you have to be about 40x dumber than the average human. Do you take pride in insulting yourself, and the community subset your apart of?
Only way to get away would be fuel injectors, which, again, is a problem with fuel injectors not tanks or AV. Unless you are implying that the triple repped tank is going to kill the forge gunner, then it just points to another issue, which is the fact that the only way it would happen (assuming they are using blasters, which is a safe bet) is if the forge gunner is somewhere easily accessible to the Maddy. So, really it's a single module and poor tactics that seem to be what you're complaining about. |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 01:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:
Only way to get away would be fuel injectors, which, again, is a problem with fuel injectors not tanks or AV. Unless you are implying that the triple repped tank is going to kill the forge gunner, then it just points to another issue, which is the fact that the only way it would happen (assuming they are using blasters, which is a safe bet) is if the forge gunner is somewhere easily accessible to the Maddy. So, really it's a single module and poor tactics that seem to be what you're complaining about.
So you expect me to believe that within 9s a tanker can't find a cover spot to repair his armor back to 100%? Also, AVers are complaining that an Explosive weapon with the highest Anti-Armor bias in the game (+20%) cannot destroy an Armored Vehicle. ~Which is about as balanced as a SCR being unable to kill a Minmatar suit..
Swarms only have a hard time against triple repped maddies, other armor tanks, and some shield tanks, tend to avoid them. Since you don't tank I know you don't know how hard it is to find a spot a good forge gunner with an even better position can't hit you from. Forges have the longest range in the game right now, except sniper rifles of course, and plenty of teams have forge gunners on roof tops pouring into tanks and infantry alike. Without a fuel injector that kind of thing can kill you fast, especially since you can't see them half the time lol. |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 01:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Atiim wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:
AFG can easily take out a repper tank.
IAFG does 1500 per shot. Now add on the bonus to armor damage, we get 1650 damage. Prof 5 yields us 1875 a shot. Throw on 2 complex mods (4 are possible) for a total benefit of ~9% more damage. We arrive at 2010 damage a shot.
Now to get the IAFG, you need operation 5. This bonus gives you a 2.25 second refire rate. Damage over time between shots gives a DPS of 893.33 DPS. This is without hitting the weakspot. Highest reps possible on a Maddy are 512.5 hp/s, coming from two complex reps and an enhanced rep at repair rate level 5. So you got 380.83 DPS over the reps of the best repper Maddy. Add in damage to the weakspot, and the DPS climbs even higher.
This is from a single forge gun, maxed out, against a repper Maddy, maxed out. The single assault forge gun already wins.
Let's see here. 9s (Madrugar TTK w/IAFG) / .215 (Average Human Reaction Time) = 41.86 So in-order to die to to an IAFG, you have to be about 40x dumber than the average human. Do you take pride in insulting yourself, and the community subset your apart of? Only way to get away would be fuel injectors, which, again, is a problem with fuel injectors not tanks or AV. Unless you are implying that the triple repped tank is going to kill the forge gunner, then it just points to another issue, which is the fact that the only way it would happen (assuming they are using blasters, which is a safe bet) is if the forge gunner is somewhere easily accessible to the Maddy. So, really it's a single module and poor tactics that seem to be what you're complaining about. Wait with like 80% of the range of a large rail there is someplace not easily accessible to the blaster?
IKR? Hard to imagine you can actually AVOID them right? Lost count of how many forge gunners try to forge me just standing out in the open with no cover at all. |
Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 02:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Atiim wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:
Only way to get away would be fuel injectors, which, again, is a problem with fuel injectors not tanks or AV. Unless you are implying that the triple repped tank is going to kill the forge gunner, then it just points to another issue, which is the fact that the only way it would happen (assuming they are using blasters, which is a safe bet) is if the forge gunner is somewhere easily accessible to the Maddy. So, really it's a single module and poor tactics that seem to be what you're complaining about.
So you expect me to believe that within 9s a tanker can't find a cover spot to repair his armor back to 100%? Also, AVers are complaining that an Explosive weapon with the highest Anti-Armor bias in the game (+20%) cannot destroy an Armored Vehicle. ~Which is about as balanced as a SCR being unable to kill a Minmatar suit.. Swarms only have a hard time against triple repped maddies, other armor tanks, and some shield tanks, tend to avoid them. Since you don't tank I know you don't know how hard it is to find a spot a good forge gunner with an even better position can't hit you from. Forges have the longest range in the game right now, except sniper rifles of course, and plenty of teams have forge gunners on roof tops pouring into tanks and infantry alike. Without a fuel injector that kind of thing can kill you fast, especially since you can't see them half the time lol. I feel like you're the most logical, sane tanker on the forums. Can we be friends?
Yes.
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Commander Tzu
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Posted - 2014.04.23 02:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:
Swarms only have a hard time against triple repped maddies, other armor tanks, and some shield tanks, tend to avoid them. Since you don't tank I know you don't know how hard it is to find a spot a good forge gunner with an even better position can't hit you from.
Assumptions are bad for you. It's not that hard. All you have to do is pay attention to the screen and take not of where the giant blue ball came from. Commander Tzu wrote:
Forges have the longest range in the game right now, except sniper rifles of course, and plenty of teams have forge gunners on roof tops pouring into tanks and infantry alike. Without a fuel injector that kind of thing can kill you fast, especially since you can't see them half the time lol.
FGs camping on a tower means that simply hiding behind cover long enough will suffice to bring your HP back to 100%, and it means they have to peak their heads out if they want to fire, which makes easy prey for a Railgunner with a good shot.
Fit me a triple rep maddy with enough reps to survive swarms and forges, a proto rail turret to take on other tanks, and a fuel injector to escape. There is a reason so many triple rep maddys run blasters. It's this reason that let's you infer that if you see one on the field, chances are they are using a blaster. As for rail guns, again, rendering is still an issue. Unless you figured out how to pick people off rooftops without actually seeing them? Not to mention your lack of range. Plus your second comment seems to show you completely missed the point. Forge guns in good positions tend to be able to fire over a lot of cover, effectively blocking tanks off from certain areas of the map, sometimes whole halves. If you were to venture in those areas, you would not survive, and if you didn't then it isn't a problem and this whole scenario is useless isn't it? |
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