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Exionous
True Pros Forever
96
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Posted - 2014.04.20 22:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
... without armour repairers.
If I attack a dropship (or any vehicle for that matter) and it gets caught on fire, I'm pretty sure that's debilitating to the systems. So why, in the name of reason, can a dropship survive with 0 armour when it's on fire and slowly dropping to the ground? By then, all the systems on the vehicle should be fried or destroyed by the damage it's taken, so that ship should drop right to the ground, save of course if it has armour repairers that can save it. Otherwise, that thing (and any vehicle for that matter) should be destroyed.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
488
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
So then armour vehicles become that much better.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1230
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is for the exact same reason that some miserable grunt survives with 0/0. Because their health is measured by two variables. Both of which are floating point numbers that are displayed as integers.
What does the fancy coder talk mean? 0.00 shield and 0.45 armor means the display will be 0/0 but they are still alive. The same exact thing is true for vehicles. And just like the Drop Suits that have armor repair any vehicle that has armor repair will start repairing the next Second. The Merc will see 1 or more HP while the vehicle will see whatever the repair modules can produce. Both have armor repair bonuses to make it slightly faster.
To the other commenter, yes Armor has the advantage.
Fitting an armor repair module whenever possible will save your vehicle. Not always. But often enough to generate QQ on the forums. 
And so it goes.
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MINA Longstrike
536
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
No, the burning damage was taken away for a reason. If you're not a vehicle user you shouldn't be trying to dictate how vehicle users play, go away.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Exionous
True Pros Forever
97
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:No, the burning damage was taken away for a reason. If you're not a vehicle user you shouldn't be trying to dictate how vehicle users play, go away.
Invincible Treaded Thingy is my alternate tanker account because tanks became so bad in 1.7 I had to create a separate account just to combat them. So yes, I am a vehicle user. So how about you go away.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
1884
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
There are structure points, i don't know how many HP vehicles or dropsuit have when they are at 0 HP.
Burning damage was awful, i would not like to see it again.
The unnamed new build it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes..
\o/ summon me
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Exionous
True Pros Forever
97
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Posted - 2014.04.21 00:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:There are structure points, i don't know how many HP vehicles or dropsuit have when they are at 0 HP.
Burning damage was awful, i would not like to see it again.
Awful for tankers.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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wiseguy12
Ancient Legion
22
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Posted - 2014.04.21 00:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Exionous wrote:shaman oga wrote:There are structure points, i don't know how many HP vehicles or dropsuit have when they are at 0 HP.
Burning damage was awful, i would not like to see it again. Awful for tankers.
Worse for dropships
W.I.D.O.S. when in doubt orbital strike
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MINA Longstrike
536
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Posted - 2014.04.21 00:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Exionous wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:No, the burning damage was taken away for a reason. If you're not a vehicle user you shouldn't be trying to dictate how vehicle users play, go away. Invincible Treaded Thingy is my alternate tanker account because tanks became so bad in 1.7 I had to create a separate account just to combat them. So yes, I am a vehicle user. So how about you go away.
"I used a tank once, that qualifies me to talk about all things balance". Burning damage was absconded with for a reason - it was a terrible mechanic. If you've only been using vehicles since 1.7 (after they got rid of burning damage) you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to talking about balance, Try running a gunnlogi when *anyone* with av grenades, a swarm launcher or a forge gun can kill you in two shots - or make it so you have to rep shields for *five minutes* before you're able to join battle again.
You are trying to dictate balance on something you don't actually play, and your idea of balance is a harmful 'sometimes things get away and I don't like that, vehicles should always die to me' stance.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Exionous
True Pros Forever
100
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Posted - 2014.04.21 00:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:[
"I used a tank once, that qualifies me to talk about all things balance". Burning damage was absconded with for a reason - it was a terrible mechanic. If you've only been using vehicles since 1.7 (after they got rid of burning damage) you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to talking about balance, Try running a gunnlogi when *anyone* with av grenades, a swarm launcher or a forge gun can kill you in two shots - or make it so you have to rep shields for *five minutes* before you're able to join battle again.
You are trying to dictate balance on something you don't actually play, and your idea of balance is a harmful 'sometimes things get away and I don't like that, vehicles should always die to me' stance.
Had a tanker at 1.4 build with Neutron Blaster Madrugars and was very close to Ion Cannons. Deleted him because I got bored of killing people at ridiculous rates, it was too expensive, and I wanted a logi.
2 AV grenades = 1,400 damage base, with the damage dropoff on shields = 1,000-1,250.
Swarm launchers? You've got to be kidding me, those hunks of Caldari crap can't kill an LAV. The prototype variant nearly takes all 3 shots just to get the shields down, and at the speed of current tanks you can remove yourself from the location before that happens, 70% of the time.
Forge gun, prototype breach forge gun = 2,100 without proficiency. Gunnlogi Shield Recharge Delay = 4.00 seconds. Your shields will not be fully dropped from one shot. You also have shield boosters and hardeners to get you out of there safely.
Your depleted shield recharge delay is 10.00 s, not five minutes. Heavy overexaggeration is a psychological sign of cognitive stress and anger.
Vehicles do not always die to me. Some tanks are legitimate, and sometimes I screw up and do something stupid, like go after a hardened railgun tank with all my modules deactivated. (Actually did that before.)
I have run Gunnlogae when I have forge guns, swarm launchers, and AV grenades being tossed at me, as well as a scout trying to throw proximity explosives at me. You know how I lived? Through the supreme power of two enhanced shield hardeners and a fuel injector. A second ally Madrugar came in afterward and killed them all.
I probably know more about tanks than you, looking at that audacious post you call a counter.
Get real.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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MINA Longstrike
536
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Posted - 2014.04.21 01:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
^Maybe you missed the part where I was talking about tanks *before* 1.7 and I wasn't exaggerating anything. Burning damage was a harmful mechanic that served no real purpose, which is why it doesn't exist anymore. Reading comprehension is hard.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9604
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Posted - 2014.04.21 02:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Exionous wrote:... without armour repairers.
If I attack a dropship (or any vehicle for that matter) and it gets caught on fire, I'm pretty sure that's debilitating to the systems. So why, in the name of reason, can a dropship survive with 0 armour when it's on fire and slowly dropping to the ground? By then, all the systems on the vehicle should be fried or destroyed by the damage it's taken, so that ship should drop right to the ground, save of course if it has armour repairers that can save it. Otherwise, that thing (and any vehicle for that matter) should be destroyed.
Built in fire extinguisher units? WW2 Tanks had those....... and I think one Madrugar could have won the entire thing.......
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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Exionous
True Pros Forever
100
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Posted - 2014.04.21 02:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Built in fire extinguisher units? WW2 Tanks had those....... and I think one Madrugar could have won the entire thing.......
I could get behind this.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2039
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Posted - 2014.04.21 02:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
This just nerfs shield tanking vehicles. no.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Exionous
True Pros Forever
100
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Posted - 2014.04.21 02:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:This just nerfs shield tanking vehicles. no.
Shield tanks have armour too. It doesn't nerf shield vehicles, it 1. Slightly buffs armour vehicles (which don't have modules that immediately repair armour unlike shield vehicles) 2. Brings a more realistic quality back to vehicles.
Nothing can survive when on fire. Go engulf your car in flames and shoot a few dozen rounds into it and see if you can drive it after it's done. If you can, I'll terminate every one of my accounts.
PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
494
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Posted - 2014.04.21 10:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:This just nerfs shield tanking vehicles. no. Shield tanks have armour too. It doesn't nerf shield vehicles, it 1. Slightly buffs armour vehicles (which don't have modules that immediately repair armour unlike shield vehicles) 2. Brings a more realistic quality back to vehicles. Nothing can survive when on fire. Go engulf your car in flames and shoot a few dozen rounds into it and see if you can drive it after it's done. If you can, I'll terminate every one of my accounts.
Have you tried shield boosters? If so, you'll realize just how useless they are in heavy combat. They are so inconsistent that most people stopped using them.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3445
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Posted - 2014.04.21 11:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP is an idiot
We had this before with armor burn and armor vehicles became so much better than shield |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
2073
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Posted - 2014.04.21 17:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't care about vehicle burn, though I think if I kill a dropship, it should explode just like tanks and LAVs do.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
141
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Posted - 2014.04.21 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Exionous wrote:... without armour repairers.
If I attack a dropship (or any vehicle for that matter) and it gets caught on fire, I'm pretty sure that's debilitating to the systems. So why, in the name of reason, can a dropship survive with 0 armour when it's on fire and slowly dropping to the ground? By then, all the systems on the vehicle should be fried or destroyed by the damage it's taken, so that ship should drop right to the ground, save of course if it has armour repairers that can save it. Otherwise, that thing (and any vehicle for that matter) should be destroyed.
Oh, Exionous... Be thankful you haven't asked a MORE SENSITIVE question than that.
We are finally easing out from under the era of Dropship Gods and Celebrities. In the past, it was a hair-raising minefield of "pilots" (yep, most of us still insist on calling ourselves that...) who would complain about EVERY COMPONENT scripted into that little bus called a DS.
I am glad OTHER vehicles have been taking front stage in these arguments, and I'd hate to see dropships (yes, I'm a dedicated DS player in this game too) become a big prima-donna controversy again.
I was around when "Armour burn" was still an ACTIVE dynamic in the game. By ACTIVE I mean that burning armour on your vehicle triggered a funny countdown timer that gave you a few vague seconds to exit your vehicle and "put out the fire" with a hand repper. No repper on your suit? Then no chance of saving your vehicle----it would burn and be destroyed. It was a beautifully realistic FEAR-inducer. The version you see now in the game is just a cutsie PASSIVE graphic that used to be shown during armour-burn, but you're being fooled---"Armour-Burn"-ing doesn't exist any more.
...From your description Exionous, I get the feeling you are one of the many frustrated players who love to shoot up at dropships all day. Seeing a vehicle blow up after you've made it catch fire is a SCORE reward you're looking for.
Personally I am a masarcist, and I LIKED the armour burn as a cool pyrotechnic threat to an already TOUGH-to-operate vehicle.
But for you, tt's not the pyrotechnics nor the "armour burn" at all that you're really unhappy with....
...It's the fact that you feel you've given your all to shoot that bus down, and even after your HUD says he's whipped and depleted, he still gets to run away and you don't get a "kill" or "python destruct" score to show for the 45 seconds you stayed fixated on that player, firing you weapon with your toungue hanging half out from all the concentration. (LOL, we've all been there with the tongue thing!)
Despite the fact that I enjoyed the 'active' version of armour-burn, the players who succeeded in getting it removed from the game were right. It felt like it was "ROBBING" the vehicle player of his vehicle AFTER she had already successfully survived and excaped an attack from another player. (It was also unfair to the vehicle passengers since they often didn't realize or understand why they were still in danger of dying  )
This is the EXACT REVERSE of what you're feeling now. You're feeling like you're being "ROBBED" of a vehicle-kill reward AFTER you've already successfully pounded the heck out of the player.
...So which scripted dynamic is more "Fair" for you the DS hunter, and fair for me the DS driver? Hard call, Exionous. I want to be UN-biased for you... but since I carry other players in my vehicle, I tend to want the game to stay the way it is now: giving a LITTLE (yes, unfair) opportunity for a ruined vehicle-player to limp away and not automatically endure give a handful of passenger-kill rewards to you the vehicle-hunter. I want to think I'm entitled to that "imbalance" or "unfairness" as a bonus for facilitating fellow players in my vehicle----just like the "vehicle assist" points we'd get for ferrying a passenger as he makes a kill from our LAV, HAV, DS...
That doesn't mean you don't have my respect though, Exionous. I often man turret installations and have to taste that bitter letdown your tasting when you watch that lucky player drag his bleeding vehicle before you can put him in the grave. You'll just have to settle for the fact that you were able to chase him away. That IS what CCP wants as part of their "Waves of Opportunity" scheme.... to make players have to leave with tail between legs.  |
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