DUST Search - The Terrible NPE: How much is SP and how much is Skill?

Charlotte O'Dell wrote:

A very good question, so I will give you a good answer.

Skill > SP

Start a new character, take it through the academy and see how you do compared to your main. Chances are if you were a **** player on your main, meaning you didn't do well running anything less than proto gear you will do very bad on your new alt, but if you are a good player, getting 25/0 in proto and maybe 10/3 in standard, you will do much better out of the academy.

One can say that a new character cannot compete with a 1500 HP sentinel, but is that because he only has 450 HP or is it because he is charging it head on? Now, sure, he cannot take out an Assault gk0 with a G-1 Frontline suit in a head on fight, but that is just a numbers game. There is nothing stopping him from grabbing a shotgun and OHKing anything short of a well fit assault or better.

Yes, the NPE sucks and 50,000,000 SP guys are stomping 500,000 SP guys, but it has less to do with SP and ISK than it has to do with new players not getting the chance to learn the skills required to survive. A lot of people forget that most of the guys with 30,000,000+ SP started playing in January, when there was no proto. We all had time to learn the game and the protostomp only happened when you had the odd SVER True Blood tank stomp or Pink Fluffy / Imperfects against you. We had time to learn; I chose Caldari HAVs and by the time I had a Gunlogi, everyone else was running Advanced Dropsuits; when I had a 80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon on my Sagaris, everyone was running prototype gear, too. We all learned at the same rate. Then you throw hardened gladiators who had 100,000,000 ISK from the asset refund in with newberries who do not get a High-Sec to learn in and it should come to no surprise that MAYBE 1 in 25 newberries I meet stick around; but they stick around for the social aspect- not the gameplay.

The Academy was a good step, but it is not enough. There needs to be a very strict matchmaking system:

Mode 1: Militia and standard dropsuits and weapons, only. Militia vehicles and standard turrets, only. 2 vehicles/battle. All equipment allowed. All modules allowed.
Rewards are <200,000 ISK / battle

Mode 2: Same as right now (only vehicles limits)
Rewards are 200,000 - 1,350,000 / battle

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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation Top Men. 105	Posted - 2014.04.21 22:39:00 - [31] - Quote The gap is 100% SP 0% skill level. What does it matter how good you are in a FPS if i have 3 times your EHP and double your DPS? Earlier today a corpmate had the drop on me and emptied his mlt Assault rifle into my ADV 600 ehp gallente scout. I turned around and killed him with my adv submachine gun, while he had to reload. And felt like sh!t for it. in terms of player skill he did everything right and it wasn't enough. I had the SP to max out my armor, shields, biotics, and sidearms. He didn't. Everybody ho has run adv or better gear has stories like that. Where a mlt suit do not know who they're messing with and we stop turn and fire. As arrogant as most of Dust players are, they fail to realise It isn't a special talent for the game that gets you SP. Merely time and boostsers. You don't get proto gear by simply getting good. Anyone who has been in a PC match can attest to the fact that when the big bad corps who pubstomp fight each other on level playing field suddenly their KD turns to sh*t. Suddenly it becomes expensive. Thats why players in PC get paid. Thats why DNS was formed, and other pubstomping alliances before. So they could farm isk and protostomp pubs. Good comms and a good squad isa negligible factor. I can find new players with mics easily. I can get them to run together in a decent day or so. Whats difficult to do is to convince them to get pubstomped for months on end untill they get decent gear. And even if they hold out and start to use that proto crutch to beat up on other new payers, they wont have the funds to do it. New guys dont have BPOs to earn cash or the hundreds of millions of ISK CCP handed out to closed beta vets. Take the proto out of the equasion, suddnely these amazing vets become very average. Thats when skill comes into play. On an even playing field. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2425	Posted - 2014.04.22 07:33:00 - [32] - Quote A very good question, so I will give you a good answer. Skill > SP Start a new character, take it through the academy and see how you do compared to your main. Chances are if you were a ** player on your main, meaning you didn't do well running anything less than proto gear you will do very bad on your new alt, but if you are a good player, getting 25/0 in proto and maybe 10/3 in standard, you will do much better out of the academy. One can say that a new character cannot compete with a 1500 HP sentinel, but is that because he only has 450 HP or is it because he is charging it head on? Now, sure, he cannot take out an Assault gk0 with a G-1 Frontline suit in a head on fight, but that is just a numbers game. There is nothing stopping him from grabbing a shotgun and OHKing anything short of a well fit assault or better. Yes, the NPE sucks and 50,000,000 SP guys are stomping 500,000 SP guys, but it has less to do with SP and ISK than it has to do with new players not getting the chance to learn the skills required to survive. A lot of people forget that most of the guys with 30,000,000+ SP started playing in January, when there was no proto. We all had time to learn the game and the protostomp only happened when you had the odd SVER True Blood tank stomp or Pink Fluffy / Imperfects against you. We had time to learn; I chose Caldari HAVs and by the time I had a Gunlogi, everyone else was running Advanced Dropsuits; when I had a 80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon on my Sagaris, everyone was running prototype gear, too. We all learned at the same rate. Then you throw hardened gladiators who had 100,000,000 ISK from the asset refund in with newberries who do not get a High-Sec to learn in and it should come to no surprise that MAYBE 1 in 25 newberries I meet stick around**; but they stick around for the social aspect- not the gameplay. The Academy was a good step, but it is not enough. There needs to be a very strict matchmaking system: Mode 1: Militia and standard dropsuits and weapons, only. Militia vehicles and standard turrets, only. 2 vehicles/battle. All equipment allowed. All modules allowed. Rewards are <200,000 ISK / battle Mode 2: Same as right now (only vehicles limits) Rewards are 200,000 - 1,350,000 / battle Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 182	Posted - 2014.04.22 19:26:00 - [33] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: A very good question, so I will give you a good answer. Skill > SP Start a new character, take it through the academy and see how you do compared to your main. Chances are if you were a ** player on your main, meaning you didn't do well running anything less than proto gear you will do very bad on your new alt, but if you are a good player, getting 25/0 in proto and maybe 10/3 in standard, you will do much better out of the academy. One can say that a new character cannot compete with a 1500 HP sentinel, but is that because he only has 450 HP or is it because he is charging it head on? Now, sure, he cannot take out an Assault gk0 with a G-1 Frontline suit in a head on fight, but that is just a numbers game. There is nothing stopping him from grabbing a shotgun and OHKing anything short of a well fit assault or better. Yes, the NPE sucks and 50,000,000 SP guys are stomping 500,000 SP guys, but it has less to do with SP and ISK than it has to do with new players not getting the chance to learn the skills required to survive. A lot of people forget that most of the guys with 30,000,000+ SP started playing in January, when there was no proto. We all had time to learn the game and the protostomp only happened when you had the odd SVER True Blood tank stomp or Pink Fluffy / Imperfects against you. We had time to learn; I chose Caldari HAVs and by the time I had a Gunlogi, everyone else was running Advanced Dropsuits; when I had a 80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon on my Sagaris, everyone was running prototype gear, too. We all learned at the same rate. Then you throw hardened gladiators who had 100,000,000 ISK from the asset refund in with newberries who do not get a High-Sec to learn in and it should come to no surprise that MAYBE 1 in 25 newberries I meet stick around**; but they stick around for the social aspect- not the gameplay. The Academy was a good step, but it is not enough. There needs to be a very strict matchmaking system: Mode 1: Militia and standard dropsuits and weapons, only. Militia vehicles and standard turrets, only. 2 vehicles/battle. All equipment allowed. All modules allowed. Rewards are <200,000 ISK / battle Mode 2: Same as right now (only vehicles limits) Rewards are 200,000 - 1,350,000 / battle I agree with the mode ideas but as to the Skill > SP, you roll a new character and go even 10/3 against a pubstomp without redline sniping. Pics or that never happens. Everyone gets the match every now and then that isn't a pubstomp where you can easily go 30/2 I get them from time to time all while using militia gear, but that isn't the norm. Proto death squads will just hands down overwhelm the best of players, so Skill > SP, quit being delusional.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 816	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:40:00 - [34] - Quote I think what char was trying to say is that the new players just don't understand the FOTM. Or that they don't understand that attacking head on is a bad idea. I would assume that anyone with any FPS experience, understand this well. He is also one of the few tankers that says tanks are finally balanced since they nerfed hardeners and rail range. As he stacks damage mods. What it should read like is SP = Skill. Perhaps a bit more on the SP side. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Obodiah Garro Tech guard RISE of LEGION 967	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:52:00 - [35] - Quote NPE would be spared its huge embarressment with the implementation of PVE like in EvE. A place where they can go at their own pace, make friends, skill up and earn a little stockpile of isk before taking on the hoards. Instead... well starter fits shooting madrugars and an academy which is 80% full of our own alts. Well played. Nemo me impune lacessit
Eko Sol Strange Playings 197	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:35:00 - [36] - Quote I think the only 4 things that need to happen are as follows: 1) More starter fits to now include the MLT light suit and MLT heavy suit 2) There should be a "help" option that explains things like Officer Weapons, generic strategies, etc. 3) I think you should start off with 2 mil SP as opposed to 500k with a 500k starter pool. 4) Introduce more MLT equivalent gear such as MLT Combat Rifle, MLT Rail Rifle, MLT HMG, etc. I would also like to see MLT Logi somehow b/c no basic suit can replicate a logi.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 1253	Posted - 2014.04.24 11:11:00 - [37] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: NPE would be spared its huge embarressment with the implementation of PVE like in EvE. A place where they can go at their own pace, make friends, skill up and earn a little stockpile of isk before taking on the hoards. Instead... well starter fits shooting madrugars and an academy which is 80% full of our own alts. Well played. So I assume you are more closely in the vein of the problem being game knowledge ('skill') rather than SP? Eko Sol wrote: I think the only 4 things that need to happen are as follows: 1) More starter fits to now include the MLT light suit and MLT heavy suit 2) There should be a "help" option that explains things like Officer Weapons, generic strategies, etc. 3) I think you should start off with 2 mil SP as opposed to 500k with a 500k starter pool. 4) Introduce more MLT equivalent gear such as MLT Combat Rifle, MLT Rail Rifle, MLT HMG, etc. I would also like to see MLT Logi somehow b/c no basic suit can replicate a logi. 1. I don't know if more Starter fits are really required. Does this help the new player that much compared to having them buy 900 isk Militia Suits? 2. The "help section" exists on the forums, sadly. They do it all the time in EVE. The introductory guide in EVE gives links to the forum stickies and dozens of "So you just started EVE and are wonder 'what the hell do I do'." threads. The DUST one basically does the same thing "Be sure to check online for help!" but that really, really doesn't work in a console game. No one likes having to go "what the hell do I do?" and log on to their computers to try to figure out what's going on with their console game. It isn't so bad for a computer game because Alt-Tab exists. 3. The concept of starting with more SP as the game goes on and on is something I have thought about before. Like every year or so bump it up a bit. This does, however, create a new character and pretty much instantly have them be an expert in one particular role. "I want to try out tanks. I will make an alt and put 2 million SP into vehicles immediately." 4. Absolutely. There needs to be a Militia variant of every weapon so people can try before they throw SP into it. A militia logistics with two or three equipment but only a light weapon slot with nothing else would be cool. Let's people see what Logistics do. Thanks for the input. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 819	Posted - 2014.04.24 20:47:00 - [38] - Quote 1. Are starter fits helpful? I say they are useful tools in the learning process. While I do see how forcing a player to fit their first suit themselves can be useful, it's not for everyone. Different people have different approaches to learning. Some people just want to hop in the first game and figure it out from there. Others might opt to go through the menu's, figuring out the mods and such before starting the game. I've recently tried to sell this game to a buddy of mine, explaining the ins and outs, the complexity, ect. For that matter, many people I talk to about this always go, "OH, it's a game for smart people". Is this the group that we only want to cater too? Those that enjoy the complexity, and the challenge that goes with it. The others, I view as the COD FPS guys(standard FPS gameplay). I myself enjoy COD, and other "simple FPS games", namely because it's simple and easy to get into. Nothing fancy, pick your favorite gun, and go to town. It's a no brainer. These people don't want to figure out how to best fit up a particular suit. They just want to be told what's good. On a side note here, they need to get kills and feel competitive. For these types, well fit starter suits are very beneficial to them in the learning process. 2. Agreed, most console FPS players care little about looking for help outside of the game starting off. Even then, there are mountains of stuff to go through. All they want to do is get in the game and get some kills.The complexities are a bonus, and not a necessity to them, or at least they should be. 3. They wouldn't have to worry about the SP, if nubs were placed on more even grounds in their matches. And even if they did have more starting SP, I assume 9/10 will misplace a good portion of it. STILL leaving them at square one. 4. I've been saying this for a while now. Though being FTP, they bank on new players buying aur to buy aur versions of weapons to try before specing them. In my opinion the really need to make MLT versions of everything, and change their marketing strat in the process. (Aur for isk anyone? Or something along the lines of the PLEX system.) Tanks - Balancing Turrets
David Mustane D3M3NT3D M1NDZ 0	Posted - 2014.04.24 21:57:00 - [39] - Quote This game is crap unless you're a vet with millions of SP. My bro downloaded the game and asked if I'll play. I tried. Deleted 4 characters in that process. The game is so flawed, and then you add all the cheap tactics by BS players that "refuse to lose". On the point of this not being NPE friendly, it is not. The tutorial is udder crap, it went something like this: 1) Here's a battle. Win or lose, proto stomped or not, that was a battle. okay you now understand combat. 2) Take your "winnings" and built a BS suit. You don't have anything. the miltita gear you earn of 1 battle is crap and CCP knows it. How about a little flavor, like 5 AUR weapons/suits, or even better 10 preset suits of your liking. 3) Spend your SP. Not that the game explains anything about why or how these skill work, but spend the points blindly and hope for the best. 4) Okay your trained and ready to be proto stomped by all the BS vets, that have nothing better to do than to destroy n00bs. The entire game needs an overhaul, and a better NPE. Starting with not sending any1 under 5 mil SP against any1 over 5 mil SP. That would give new players a chance to understand the game, and keep proto stomps down to a minimum. The cheaters and hackers that play Dust make the game an even further joke. What pisses me off the most is that CCP seems fine with all the down right cheating that goes on.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 342	Posted - 2014.04.24 22:17:00 - [40] - Quote CCP (Even in Eve) has a hard time, apparently describing what their stats mean. Nothing explains "in game" what the dispersion on a weapon is, or what the difference between that and kick back is. Nothing explains what "Precision" is and what "Profile" is, or displays what your stats change to when you equip the modules. Nothing, truly, describes what an "Assault" suit is designed to excel at. Nowhere, in game, are the Optimal Range, Effective Range, and Absolute Ranges of weapons listed. Nothing explains how stacking penalties work. Add on to this the "Experience" that lets you know what weapons have hit detection issues, and what don't, and there is a large deal of out of game additional homework to do in this gameGÇª The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.

Vinny Gar grief thief 26	Posted - 2014.04.25 07:00:00 - [41] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: "OH, it's a game for smart people". Is this the group that we only want to cater too? Those that enjoy the complexity, and the challenge that goes with it. Yeah, pretty much. cosbyness is next to godliness
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 159	Posted - 2014.04.29 12:47:00 - [42] - Quote What isnt mentioned about how bad the NPE is already and will, even more so, be in the future: The "runaway SP" concept. The thing is: A new player joins with fixed 500k SP and has a fixed passive SP gain. When is he able to catch up to the vets, saying if he joins the game now? Say someone goes in, plays every day (for reasonable hours ... say 12 :P) and buys active AND passive boosters straight, all the time. Even then it may take MONTHS to get to some sort of evening out of some sort. And that is only if you dump really much money into dust. If you dont do this, you may never catch up (because the game maybe cancelled before that in a few years). If the only way to hit some sort of "stat ceiling" is to max out every skill there is in the game, the vet will always have the advantage, through just out-coring the Newb, through the possibility of switching to counter-gear (that he then cant counter because he has only maxed out a few Skills and the vet has more), through just being more proto than the less vet player. So the runaway effect materializes very impressively on a broader scale, as you can see by the more and more obscene kill/WP records on the end-of-match-screens. The more the vets run away with the SP advantage, the less new players will stay (who will endure running 3/10 for more than a few days before calling BS and leaving?), because the SP gap is getting greater by the day. When I started out it was 500k-25mio. Now it may be 500k-60mio. Who knows. Just estimating here, but you see the point. So as long as there is no matchmaking or SP-rubberbanding effect (like accelerated SP accrual at the bottom) it will stay ridiculous. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2426	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:12:00 - [43] - Quote Glantix Toketsu-Snow wrote: This is more or less my area of expertise. I have been constantly restarting this game for seven months now. The most sp I ever reached(barring the million clone event) was 2mil, so I really have never gotten into a decent advanced suit ever. I can tell you that it is a fair balance of both. I do decently in a fair few of my games, coming anywhere form 10th to 3rd usually on the killboard, and this is my first FPS. But if the enemy is using proto, then there is no hope on me winning, and my deaths usually go upwards of 15. It really come down to teamwork though. A well coordinated squad will stomp me every time even if they are just in standard gear. Being a new player also doesn't easily allow experimentation. Skilled players with practice can make any weapon or suit work, while a new player will be doing pretty bad at best if they choose to do something a bit gimmicky or underpowered. To answer your question, it is equally as much one as it is the other, with a slight lean towards just lack of practice. why do you keep restarting O.o
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2426	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:15:00 - [44] - Quote Hansei Kaizen wrote: What isnt mentioned about how bad the NPE is already and will, even more so, be in the future: The "runaway SP" concept. The thing is: A new player joins with fixed 500k SP and has a fixed passive SP gain. When is he able to catch up to the vets, saying if he joins the game now? Say someone goes in, plays every day (for reasonable hours ... say 12 :P) and buys active AND passive boosters straight, all the time. Even then it may take MONTHS to even out. And that is only if you dump really much money into dust. If you dont do this, you may never catch up (because the game maybe cancelled before that in a few years). If the only way to hit some sort of "stat ceiling" is to max out every skill there is in the game, the vet will always have the advantage, through just out-coring the Newb, through the possibility of switching to counter-gear (that the noob then cant counter because he has only maxed out a few Skills and the vet has more), through just being more proto than the less vet player. So the runaway effect materializes very impressively on a broader scale, as you can see by the more and more obscene kill/WP records on the end-of-match-screens. The more the vets run away with the SP advantage, the less new players will stay (who will endure running 3/10 for more than a few days before calling BS and leaving?), because the SP gap is getting greater by the day. When I started out it was 500k-25mio. Now it may be 500k-60mio. Who knows. Just estimating here, but you see the point. So as long as there is no matchmaking or SP-rubberbanding effect (like accelerated SP accrual at the bottom) it will stay ridiculous. you don't catch up to old players in these games. you equal out. that is to say you get your skills with X role to a comparative level as the vets then you can compete equally. each role has a skill ceiling, if you are fighting as an assault skills in logi gear or tanks are useless. you reach that point and you are comparatively equal to the vets.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1856	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:25:00 - [45] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: I still do great on my alts But I can't expect a new player to know the maps like I know them. Know my weapons like I know them. or have great friends and squad mates like I do. Most of them don;t even know what a nanohive is... What a Uplink is... Has never used a MLT vehicle. Think getting to an objective and standing around it will switch it's ownership. Turrets can damage MCC's.. Like simplistic core game functions... If People are leaving the Battle Academy and have not experienced any of DUST's unique or different from other title features... There is something massively wrong. Until CCP actually Builds a NPE around the Battle Academy... The Average Mercenary graduate from there won;t even understand much about DUST except where the jump button is and where the crouch button is.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1880	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:28:00 - [46] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: With the NPE in DUST being "as bad as it is", is it just a case of people not being familiar with the game at all (Skill) or just 10-40 million SP being too great of a barrier to overcome (SP)? I think the ratio is something like 90% new players lacking skill and 10% new players lacking SP. Proof of concept: my dad is not a gamer at all, but he decided to play Dust 514. He initially did well in the academy, then upon leaving the academy, proceeded to have his ass handed to him. After almost nearly a month of playing he has reached 1.9mil SP, his end-of-match stats are much better, and he is enjoying Dust more. The turning point wasn't investing SP into a few skills that netted him 5% more armor/shields. No, it was having me there to teach him how to play. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 160	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:29:00 - [47] - Quote calisk galern wrote: you don't catch up to old players in these games. you equal out. that is to say you get your skills with X role to a comparative level as the vets then you can compete equally. each role has a skill ceiling, if you are fighting as an assault skills in logi gear or tanks are useless. you reach that point and you are comparatively equal to the vets. I guess at least the timeline matters for a new player, though. I also think, that having a variety of different competetive weapon, armor and equipment sets contributes to the performance. If not through direct use in a match, then through the knowledge you gain about these features by using them. The "know your enemy" thing. Still, the advantages for high SP stack on and on. So do the relative penalties for the newbs. I wouldnt want to be a new player these days. Well, I didnt play for a week now, but thats just boredom with the same ol stuff, but (as a beta tester :P) still care about the development. I will be around for Fanfest though. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Hyborean Strain Immortal Guides 50	Posted - 2014.04.29 16:38:00 - [48] - Quote I'm a new player. I have about 11m SP and 30m ISK. I feel like I did a lot of things right. I studied this game's forums for weeks before jumping in, knew from playing Eve for years that skills make a huge difference and came very slowly, bought the Templar package (Amarr Victor!), read all the Fox guides, carefully skilled into my bpo suits and weapons. I understood the importance of cover from playing a lot of Mechwarrior, stuck with cheapass builds so I could have a decent ISK buffer, and fully expected to be face-rolled as I hadn't played an FPS since Quake III. And holy **** did I nearly quit this game in frustration. I went from doing okay in the academy to getting down right humiliated in Public matches. I still go negative frequently. I attribute a great deal of this to terrible gun game, and I'm okay with that. But I know guys with wonderful GG that delete Dust on their first day. The NPE is more than a joke, it's straight out damned. Even understanding that fittings and equipment make a big difference, I was shocked by how ludicrous that difference is. My favourite moment in the game is when I emptied an entire SMG clip into a guy at point-blank range, then got wasted in about seven shots from his AR. I quit the game for 3 months and let my passive SP boosters do the work for me. There is so much of this game that needs improving. Heaps of things, and it all needs to happen right now. The NPE most especially. It could benefit greatly from tutorials similar to those in Eve; where agents send you on starter missions that pay a great deal of ISK, explain roles and include training on how to perform them, dump skillbooks and tons of equipment into your inventory, (including more Omega boosters), and for god's sake, tell you about the ranges of different guns... Basically handing the game to you on a silver platter. I stick with this game for the love of Eve, and because I imagine that one day it can be a great thing. As a new player though, it's a turd sandwich.
Topher Mellen Scott-Mellen Corporation 45	Posted - 2014.04.29 16:49:00 - [49] - Quote Glantix Toketsu-Snow wrote: This is more or less my area of expertise. I have been constantly restarting this game for seven months now. The most sp I ever reached(barring the million clone event) was 2mil, so I really have never gotten into a decent advanced suit ever. ... why?
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1370	Posted - 2014.04.30 01:23:00 - [50] - Quote Hyborean Strain wrote: I stick with this game for the love of Eve, and because I imagine that one day it can be a great thing. I feel this as well. You are pretty much the perfect candidate for my thought experiment; "having played EVE for an extended period of time, I understand fitting, differing weapon ranges, the fact that SP is extremely limited, and how skills help me where and in what way." Can you say which would be worse between "I have all the skills and know nothing about DUST" or "I know everything about DUST but only have 500,000 SP"? I certainly agree that some kind of tutorial needs to be added; I don't think anyone would say otherwise. The fact that the game doesn't even have a pop-up that has "this is how you move, this is this button, etc" is kind of shocking. EVE originally didn't have the adequate tutorial like it does now but even floating in space going "wait, what's training, how do I get anywhere, what's going on?" isn't as bad as all that PLUS only having to fight enemy players. Thanks for posting your experiences. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson

Hyborean Strain Immortal Guides 54	Posted - 2014.04.30 16:11:00 - [51] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: "I have all the skills and know nothing about DUST" or "I know everything about DUST but only have 500,000 SP"? I would say of those two choices, I would definitely prefer to have all the skills. I know I could use Aurum to buy better equipment, but I'm not down with that. Plus I understand that having the equipment < having the equipment & the skills. So I'm patient. I have however, tried to encourage my friends who own PS3's to log in and make a character now, turn on the passive SP, then log out without ever playing a single game. That way if they ever give the game a shot in a few years, they'll have a much better experience than someone who just jumps head first into the empty swimming pool that is Public Contracts. Because let's face it, that is the real NPE; getting stomped into the substrate by people you haven't a chance of countering. The only way that all of these protos have great GG is because all the average players ran screaming within the first 3 hours of logging in. That's no way to run a game. Having a 90% attrition rate on new customers is no way to run a business either.


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