I hate this tactic...

I've also used the jihad jeep in desperate situations.

just because you don't like it isn't a good reason to remove it, it's probably the worst reason... maybe even a decent reason to keep it...

but by your logic I hate proto gear (though I also use it occasionally) so should we remove proto gear?

I also hate how scouts can jump and how heavies cant jump up a 1 inch step... so can we remove jumping?

I get you think its poor gameplay and you hate it, but it's not game breaking like PC is right now for example and it isn't an exploit.... so I don't see how you justify the removal of vehicle collisions.

Seriously man, how am I supposed to argue with you if you can't even read the damn thread? Please quote one time where I said I hate it as my argument? That's right, I never did. I provided my reasoning and you choose to ignore it and substitute it with an argument for me.

Collision needs to be revamped as a whole not only vehicle to vehicle. The problem probably lies in the engine as afaik UR3 can't work with masses that well so that collision damage based on speed and mass is hard to implement

I only disagree with your first point, if a tanker can ram an LAV (way superior agility) that LAV deserves to be destroyed.

All in all good thread with good points, +1

So a machine should only be as tough as a clone that is at least 8 times smaller? Or are you trying to make a joke? I can't tell because it's such an absurd argument. Keep in mind, that the pilots mainly want a decrease in collision damage, that is to say, not a full nullification. Or a price reduction.

Price reduction is fine. ISK doesn't work for balance. I'm okay if every vehicle costs the same as a dropsuit. But vehicles should die as easily as dropsuits. There's no game design where a player should be able to be better than another player ALL THE TIME. That's where tanks and ADSes sit. They have more health, more damage, they move faster, and less enemy players have the skills or fits to damage them.

Right now, everyone not skilled in vehicles is an idiot, because of the sheer ridiculousness of how OP vehicles are. Vehicles are currently superior to dropsuits in every way, and vehicle users in this thread are crying for someone to nerf their only vulnerability? It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

Vehicles will not be balanced until they die as often as dropsuits do, on average.

Shotguns (with cloaks), sniper rifles, forge guns. Also tanks and ADSes, which you can rarely run from, and will definitely one-shot you. So... no, not like any suit.



My AV fit runs as much as 250,000 ISK a suit, and I lose four or five of them trying to kill one ADS. Please, shelve this complaint, it's really sad.



You should be dying at least once a game. This is a first-person shooter. There should not be someone who is nearly impossible to kill in any given game. This idea is downright ludicrous.

It's not about the KDR, but it is about the kill. If you kill me, I may have a distinct desire to kill you back. How do you think it feels to be killed by someone you have no functional ability to get revenge on? Vehicle drivers have never really been in that position, they've always been able to kill infantry. But only a small subcategory of infantry can even damage vehicles.

Speaking of CoD (a bad example, because there's not really player-driven vehicles), look at Titanfall (made by the CoD devs, actually). V/AV balance in that game is a model example that CCP should look to. Vehicles feel giant, powerful, etc. But they're completely balanced with infantry. You might note that in Titanfall every single player is always carrying an AV weapon, and there's even a method for you to open a vulnerability on an enemy titan that will let you kill it even with your sidearm! That's right, every single player has two different ways to combat a Titan as infantry. And that's not even counting the ability to call in their own Titan.

In DUST, vehicles are a special pony class that gets to be better in every way, and also takes drastically reduced damage from most other classes. It's incredibly amazing that vehicles were ever made in this game in the way that they are. And with the exception of LAVs and dropships for rapid transport, vehicles don't have a *defined role*. Tanks and ADSes are simply "superior dropsuits", one of which can also fly. Meanwhile, snipers can only do long-range combat, shotguns can only do CQC, and swarms can only do AV. At the same time, tanks and ADSes can do... CQC, long range combat, AND anti-vehicle, all with one fit.

And so, I avoid the tank's attention... no need to run from someone who doesn't know you're there.