DUST Search - How can a players run market work?

Delanus Turgias wrote:

Marston VC wrote:

Takron Nistrom wrote:

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Meknow Intaki wrote:

There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ

Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines.

You obviously havent played Eve...

90% of the market items in eve are hard to manipulate thanks to the simple fact that anyone can make it. The only exception is with higher end ships, and that's only because CCP went and screwed up by putting necessary materials for those ships in one region of space which is controlled by GS.

So really the only big issue in EVE's market is that CCP has put some incredible bottlenecks in that allow for people to monopolize relatively easily. But even then they've added ways to work around that through alchemy and what not.

Right now the player market could possibly work. If done right. Theres a problem with PC being broken. They either need to open up more land, or make it harder to hold so much land at once. But that's something that should be fixed within the next year or so. meh, whatever, Im just curious as to what they will be announcing at fanfest.

What about when I think it was the Goons that basically took control of the majority of ice mining regions and jacked up the price on ice a shitton? I think that lasted a few weeks and they made a fair pile of cash doing it, whose to say the top corps in Dust can't figure out a way to take control of all the avenues of resource production?

u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.

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Meknow Intaki 135	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:06:00 - [1] - Quote There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2546	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:09:00 - [2] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines. For the Federation!
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 462	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:16:00 - [3] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ that's not how supply and demand works u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 331	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:20:00 - [4] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines. You obviously havent played Eve... GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Marston VC SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1671	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:31:00 - [5] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines. You obviously havent played Eve... 90% of the market items in eve are hard to manipulate thanks to the simple fact that anyone can make it. The only exception is with higher end ships, and that's only because CCP went and screwed up by putting necessary materials for those ships in one region of space which is controlled by GS. So really the only big issue in EVE's market is that CCP has put some incredible bottlenecks in that allow for people to monopolize relatively easily. But even then they've added ways to work around that through alchemy and what not. Right now the player market could possibly work. If done right. Theres a problem with PC being broken. They either need to open up more land, or make it harder to hold so much land at once. But that's something that should be fixed within the next year or so. meh, whatever, Im just curious as to what they will be announcing at fanfest. Marston VC, STB Director
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 859	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:36:00 - [6] - Quote Mr X wants buys some cabbages He goes to the market and sees a stall with Mr F selling cabbages at -ú1000 each. Mr X is shocked Mr X goes to Mr Ys stall. Cabbages are -ú1 at Mr Ys stall. Mr X buys cabbages from Mr Y. Mr F buys all Mr Ys cabbages. Cabbages are now all -ú1000. Mr P makes his own cabbages. Mr P sells them for -ú1 Everyone buys from Mr P. // Fully Specced Mass Driver Expert // Proto Min Scout // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guard Director //
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 403	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:50:00 - [7] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines. You obviously havent played Eve... 90% of the market items in eve are hard to manipulate thanks to the simple fact that anyone can make it. The only exception is with higher end ships, and that's only because CCP went and screwed up by putting necessary materials for those ships in one region of space which is controlled by GS. So really the only big issue in EVE's market is that CCP has put some incredible bottlenecks in that allow for people to monopolize relatively easily. But even then they've added ways to work around that through alchemy and what not. Right now the player market could possibly work. If done right. Theres a problem with PC being broken. They either need to open up more land, or make it harder to hold so much land at once. But that's something that should be fixed within the next year or so. meh, whatever, Im just curious as to what they will be announcing at fanfest. What about when I think it was the Goons that basically took control of the majority of ice mining regions and jacked up the price on ice a shitton? I think that lasted a few weeks and they made a fair pile of cash doing it, whose to say the top corps in Dust can't figure out a way to take control of all the avenues of resource production? Closed Beta Vet since May, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 464	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:51:00 - [8] - Quote so with the market our equipment will finally be crafted eve side? this sounds kinda premature. i think we'll just be able to sell each other salavage? u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 464	Posted - 2014.04.19 14:57:00 - [9] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: Marston VC wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Because anything in the market is also created by players, so price manipulation would be very difficult unless you can also monopolize the production lines. You obviously havent played Eve... 90% of the market items in eve are hard to manipulate thanks to the simple fact that anyone can make it. The only exception is with higher end ships, and that's only because CCP went and screwed up by putting necessary materials for those ships in one region of space which is controlled by GS. So really the only big issue in EVE's market is that CCP has put some incredible bottlenecks in that allow for people to monopolize relatively easily. But even then they've added ways to work around that through alchemy and what not. Right now the player market could possibly work. If done right. Theres a problem with PC being broken. They either need to open up more land, or make it harder to hold so much land at once. But that's something that should be fixed within the next year or so. meh, whatever, Im just curious as to what they will be announcing at fanfest. What about when I think it was the Goons that basically took control of the majority of ice mining regions and jacked up the price on ice a shitton? I think that lasted a few weeks and they made a fair pile of cash doing it, whose to say the top corps in Dust can't figure out a way to take control of all the avenues of resource production? that probably involved at least 1000 ppl cooperating and metagaming before hand for months. not saying some mercs couldn't pull it off but i would be surprised if they did. goons do stuff mostly for trolling purposes the profit is secondary, so i could see someone crashing the market in dust just for the lolz u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 657	Posted - 2014.04.19 15:03:00 - [10] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ well considering we currently have a npc market we wont be screwed. in fact will be the people selling for millions :) the only thing that will be expensive are items that cant be bought with straight isk fw items , aur items, boosters,bpos, and officer gear It'll help define roles, i promise:)

deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 657	Posted - 2014.04.19 15:06:00 - [11] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: so with the market our equipment will finally be crafted eve side? this sounds kinda premature. i think we'll just be able to sell each other salavage? or i can buy all that standard equipment you regret buying for 1 isk each that way i basically have a bpo lol It'll help define roles, i promise:)
Spike Slania CREATURES OF THE NIGHT 34	Posted - 2014.04.19 15:28:00 - [12] - Quote I'm more hoping it will end up be more trading based. Like I have some Thales, I will trade off 1 Thale for 1 Gastun HMG, then some other trades might be like I have a Gunnlogi, someone offers me like suits he got from salvage and maybe some isk in trade for a Gunnlogi that I don't use. If we can only sell for straight isk on the player market, that will make some of my assets worth less to me, I'm more hoping for trade values then isk values cause some stuff to sell for isk like a Gunnlogi you have to offer it up for less then what you bought it for just to sell it. I'm not too far from you, I can't wait to see you, again and again
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 335	Posted - 2014.04.19 15:51:00 - [13] - Quote C Saunders wrote: Mr X wants buys some cabbages He goes to the market and sees a stall with Mr F selling cabbages at -ú1000 each. Mr X is shocked Mr X goes to Mr Ys stall. Cabbages are -ú1 at Mr Ys stall. Mr X buys cabbages from Mr Y. Mr F buys all Mr Ys cabbages. Cabbages are now all -ú1000. Mr P makes his own cabbages. Mr P sells them for -ú1 Everyone buys from Mr P. Thing you fail to realize is Mr. F buys all the product Mr. P puts on the market and resells it for 1000 again. Mr. F gets wise and raises his prices also until they are just as expensive or ends up contacting Mr. P and sells to him directly. Thus, prices dont change because people are greedy. Next senario? P.S. Ive seen that, and done that before, so dont tell me it doesnt happen. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 534	Posted - 2014.04.19 16:38:00 - [14] - Quote Player market does not get rid of the NPC market. That stays put and we can sell our gear for whatever we feel is fair. Along those lines officer weapons and bpos will be the money makers. Rare things. If you want a vision of DUST514 v1.8, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
Principus Shmoof Triariian Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered 115	Posted - 2014.04.19 17:18:00 - [15] - Quote You must be still be in middle or high school. Take an economics class when you get the chance to
byte modal 65	Posted - 2014.04.19 17:28:00 - [16] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: C Saunders wrote: Mr X wants buys some cabbages He goes to the market and sees a stall with Mr F selling cabbages at -ú1000 each. Mr X is shocked Mr X goes to Mr Ys stall. Cabbages are -ú1 at Mr Ys stall. Mr X buys cabbages from Mr Y. Mr F buys all Mr Ys cabbages. Cabbages are now all -ú1000. Mr P makes his own cabbages. Mr P sells them for -ú1 Everyone buys from Mr P. Thing you fail to realize is Mr. F buys all the product Mr. P puts on the market and resells it for 1000 again. Mr. F gets wise and raises his prices also until they are just as expensive or ends up contacting Mr. P and sells to him directly. Thus, prices dont change because people are greedy. Next senario? P.S. Ive seen that, and done that before, so dont tell me it doesnt happen. Noone is denying that possibility. They are just suggesting that your example is not the only example that will play out. For those of us that have played the EvE-side industrialist, sure, we've done that---buy up the cheap stuff for a markup. But, even then, players can take a few jumps to a neighboring system to find more options. Or another industrialist could buy low in one and sell high in the target system. Regardless, that can only last so long in any market before sales just stop. Players will migrate to other regions, or decide to build their own in spite, even at a loss. Unless you can seize all cheaper products in your market, plus all minerals on market to prevent others from manufacturing, PLUS wiping all local belts to prevent other miner/industrialists from producing, plus locking out local facilities to stop local production then yeah, your scenario can play out any time every time. But then players will just move. Unless there's a gatecamp set up specifically to prevent that too from happening. Nothing was failed to be realized, they are just speaking in general market rules, with general being operative word. The issue that concerns me more, is that DUST players are stuck in their local system of origins and seem to only move when under contract for other systems. I'm wondering how this will play out when markets are player-run. If a merc can't independently travel from one region to another, then that merc, in theory, would be bound to whatever market is available to that merc's home system. I assume corps have contracts to provide their members with whatever access they have at a crop level, but the starter corps or solo players would have a hard time without that level of access. I'm curious what the plan is for that. Would I hitch-hike on the backs of EvE capsulers? lol? Also, to reply to a post earlier, I'm sure you would be able to trade outright on an individual basis, but the market itself and its rules are already established within the EvE universe. We would, I assume, just plug in to that when development is ready. Irony: Post #35
Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 661	Posted - 2014.04.19 18:23:00 - [17] - Quote If anyone has played Tera,and bought and sold items in the Brokerage House,they would understand how simple a player run market would be.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 674	Posted - 2014.04.19 20:03:00 - [18] - Quote NPC production will mean that the market will remain unchanged for most people apart from those items you can not buy for isk as mentioned above. If player production is introduced then we will need the equivalent of high sec mining and production with a number of essential items always being produced in high-sec.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2899	Posted - 2014.04.19 20:15:00 - [19] - Quote C Saunders wrote: Mr X wants buys some cabbages He goes to the market and sees a stall with Mr F selling cabbages at -ú1000 each. Mr X is shocked Mr X goes to Mr Ys stall. Cabbages are -ú1 at Mr Ys stall. Mr X buys cabbages from Mr Y. Mr F buys all Mr Ys cabbages. Cabbages are now all -ú1000. Mr P makes his own cabbages. Mr P sells them for -ú1 Everyone buys from Mr P. MY CABBAGES!!!!! Anyone else remember that from Avatar? Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 511	Posted - 2014.04.19 20:18:00 - [20] - Quote Meknow Intaki wrote: There are people so rich in Dust they will just buy everything first day jack the price 1000% and put it back on the market effectively killing it before it starts. Players could jack the price of there stuff "million isk a gun" so the rich got to pay out there butt but then the regular poor dusty would get the screw =ƒÿÆ Items will still be seeded at the start, so the prices should only go down. Once that its steadied out the seeds will be removed and we will be left with our player market. Plus people are only going to buy the cheap suits, so people will keep having to undercut each other to sell there stuff, keeping prices down. Gÿé Syeven 514 Application for CPM1



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