DUST Search - Why using the ACR is just better than the AR

Jathniel wrote:

With the proficiencies changed, and the overall ttk increase. Rate of Fire is now king.

Doesn't matter if the gal ar is "better" against shields; with the combat rifle's rate of fire, the proficiency difference is merely a shallow speed bump to it's performance.

I even posted a while back that the "fixes" to the gallente tactical assault rifle are now obsolete in today's environment. 18 round magazine and it's rof cap are completely insufficient. It's stats were made for an era when 11 tar rounds would put down the toughest heavies....
...that doesn't happen anymore.

The Gallente AR family is in a bad way.
I'm not going to make anymore suggestions to weapon stats either, because I'm one of the main ones that proposed the Gallente TAR's current stats.
If I had any idea things would be the way they are now, I would have never said anything.

Just going to keep quiet and see how CCP decides to proceed. At this point, because of how radically different damages are now, I don't have any clue what kind of metrics CCP is following.
So nothing but silence from me.

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Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5536	Posted - 2014.04.18 03:29:00 - [1] - Quote 1.8 killed the Assault Rifle, I feel. I'd even predicted this much back in October, no less. I always make sarcastic remarks about how, before 1.7, everyone whined and complained about the Assault Rifle being over-powered but then the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle were introduced and suddenly all of those complaints just disappeared. Interesting, then, that all of the rifles were nerfed as part of the efforts to increase the time to kill. The changes, however, haven't done anything to reduce the power and usability of the Combat Rifle when compared against the Assault Rifle. The systematic destruction of the Assault Rifle came in a few ways, with the variants being nerfed into oblivion over the course of Dust's history starting with the Breach Assault Rifle back in early closed beta. Which, for some reason, we felt it was necessary to nerf it even further into the ground by reducing it's damage even further despite it being repeatedly said that it was already having difficulty remaining competitive. All things considered, the AR is officially -dead-. Here's why: It's simply more tactically viable to use the Assault Combat Rifle. And I know some players are going to bring up resistances (I've seen it before in other threads) so I'll cover that right now. Assume that we have three wacky suits with different HP values. How do the two rifles stack up against these suits with resistances in effect? Here is the time to kill in seconds: http://i.imgur.com/mZsUfl9.png So, that being said - the AR does work better against shields... but it's marginal. A whole 0.06 seconds faster TTK on the shield tanked suit. To put that into perspective, it takes you roughly 0.3 - 0.4 seconds to complete a single BLINK OF YOUR EYE. The human eye can only register movement at 60 frames per second, anything higher and it becomes unnoticeable. That being said, the advantage of using an AR over an ACR against a shield tanker is negligible at best. But that's not even taking into account that armor plates provide substantially more HP than shield modules; so it's more beneficial to have a weapon that pummels through armor anyway because you're going to have less to deal with from the shields in the first place. That being said; I've come to the conclusion that until changes are made - I'm abandoning my trusty Assault Rifle and speccing into the Combat Rifle. IMO, it's not even worth using for role-playing purposes anymore. EDIT: Oh. Forgot to put an idea in here. Uhhh.... Fix the Assault Rifle, I guess. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Jathniel G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 1021	Posted - 2014.04.18 03:55:00 - [2] - Quote With the proficiencies changed, and the overall ttk increase. Rate of Fire is now king. Doesn't matter if the gal ar is "better" against shields; with the combat rifles rate of fire, the proficiency difference is merely a shallow speed bump to it's performance. I even posted a while back that the "fixes" to the gallente tactical assault rifle are now obsolete in today's environment. 18 round magazine and it's rof cap are completely insufficient. It's stats were made for an era when 11 tar rounds would put down the toughest heavies.... ...that doesn't happen anymore. The Gallente AR family is in a bad way. I'm not going to make anymore suggestions to weapon stats either, because I'm one of the main ones that proposed the Gallente TAR's current stats. If I had any idea things would be the way they are now, I would have never said anything. Just going to keep quiet and see how CCP decides to proceed. At this point, because of how radically different damages are now, I don't have any clue what kind of metrics CCP is following. So nothing but silence from me.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5537	Posted - 2014.04.18 03:57:00 - [3] - Quote Jathniel wrote: With the proficiencies changed, and the overall ttk increase. Rate of Fire is now king. Doesn't matter if the gal ar is "better" against shields; with the combat rifle's rate of fire, the proficiency difference is merely a shallow speed bump to it's performance. I even posted a while back that the "fixes" to the gallente tactical assault rifle are now obsolete in today's environment. 18 round magazine and it's rof cap are completely insufficient. It's stats were made for an era when 11 tar rounds would put down the toughest heavies.... ...that doesn't happen anymore. The Gallente AR family is in a bad way. I'm not going to make anymore suggestions to weapon stats either, because I'm one of the main ones that proposed the Gallente TAR's current stats. If I had any idea things would be the way they are now, I would have never said anything. Just going to keep quiet and see how CCP decides to proceed. At this point, because of how radically different damages are now, I don't have any clue what kind of metrics CCP is following. So nothing but silence from me. Guarantee that it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better. They hired a new game designer who's probably going to come in, look at this travesty and then propose that we have a few more builds where we "completely start from scratch" like we did with vehicles in 1.7 Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 5683	Posted - 2014.04.18 04:35:00 - [4] - Quote Watch CCP take this as a the community wanting the AR nerfed even further? Nerfing the Breach Assault Rifle was all the proof we needed to how deep their incompetence is. *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5540	Posted - 2014.04.18 04:48:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Watch CCP take this as a the community wanting the AR nerfed even further? Nerfing the Breach Assault Rifle was all the proof we needed to how deep their incompetence is. They don't like the word incompetence but good lord all you have to do is look at the forums to understand how bad off a weapon really is - I don't think there were three pages of different threads wanting the Breach AR to be nerfed. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2175	Posted - 2014.04.18 06:32:00 - [6] - Quote The AR needs a lot of work. And so do all the variants. Proficiency skills need an overhaul. The Tac AR nerfs should be removed and/or be given a charge shot that functions just like the ion pistol. The breach should have a higher ROF and a scope. The burst AR shouldn't fire individual bursts, but instead it should shoot ~5 pellets at once in a fully automatic fashion. Removing the scope and making it more like an automatic shotgun would be so much fun to play with. The vanilla AR should have both a higher ROF and mag capacity. The AR should be able to go harder and longer in CQCthan any other rifle. Other rifle users who stumble across an AR in CQC should squirt some brown. Currently the AR is "meh" at all distances. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5546	Posted - 2014.04.18 08:17:00 - [7] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: The AR needs a lot of work. And so do all the variants. Proficiency skills need an overhaul. The Tac AR nerfs should be removed and/or be given a charge shot that functions just like the ion pistol. The breach should have a higher ROF and a scope. The burst AR shouldn't fire individual bursts, but instead it should shoot ~5 pellets at once in a fully automatic fashion. Removing the scope and making it more like an automatic shotgun would be so much fun to play with. The vanilla AR should have both a higher ROF and mag capacity. The AR should be able to go harder and longer in CQCthan any other rifle. Other rifle users who stumble across an AR in CQC should squirt some brown. Currently the AR is "meh" at all distances. Oh lord don't start talking about the AR being good in CQC, the Shotgun/HMG users will start getting pissed off. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12383	Posted - 2014.04.18 08:27:00 - [8] - Quote The old breach AR would have been the lowest DPS rifle. Even with its previous stats, it would have been, by a significant margin, the weakest of all the rifles. Now it's a contender for the lowest damage weapon in game. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
AmlSeb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 54	Posted - 2014.04.18 10:58:00 - [9] - Quote I agree and link to a solution: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2059685 @AmlSeb on Twitter BPO exchange: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1852003
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1209	Posted - 2014.04.18 11:15:00 - [10] - Quote Expect this as the Standard Operating Procedure for Dust514 going forward. While Gun is useful Earn SP Spend SP to make Gun better QQ Kittens in forum hate Gun Gun gets Nerf Hammered. Loop No SP refund, reset or hope of balance. Switch to new Gun that is OP day 1. Repeat until Mercs are out of SP again. Continue adding new Guns, a significant percentage will be OP day 1, of course. SP is never wasted in Dust, the Skill is just made obsolete and useless. Which is not wasted! And so it goes.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8504	Posted - 2014.04.18 12:46:00 - [11] - Quote AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari = AR will stay useless Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 897	Posted - 2014.04.18 13:31:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari = AR will stay useless Except AR was king for a solid 9+ months, probably longer. I think it was just a Nerf to burn SP to sell more boosters, I don't know who actually thinks the AR is any sort of competitive. The CR is setting itself up for a huge fall though, weapon is the best in the game right now. Completely versatile and almost no real weakness.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5548	Posted - 2014.04.18 14:16:00 - [13] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Cat Merc wrote: AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari = AR will stay useless Except AR was king for a solid 9+ months, probably longer. I think it was just a Nerf to burn SP to sell more boosters, I don't know who actually thinks the AR is any sort of competitive. The CR is setting itself up for a huge fall though, weapon is the best in the game right now. Completely versatile and almost no real weakness. It's real easy to be king when you have no competitors at the time. Just saying. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2176	Posted - 2014.04.18 14:20:00 - [14] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: It's real easy to be king when you have no competitors at the time. Just saying. But now I can kill ARs in a CQC fight with a laser... Granted i need to get the drop on them, but it's possible. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y RISE of LEGION 44	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:32:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari I am truly king in CQC with my fast reload and my firing delay on my pistol... I actually run an AR and so yes the ACR is ridiculous the only downside is you have to reload after you've killed everyone True Caldari Assault forget to tell you, I left some remotes on your tank....
noob cavman Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 1247	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:40:00 - [16] - Quote I miss my tac ar and the ability for every pull on the trigger to actually send plasma into someone. Not have feel sluggish and laggin behind my button pushing. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 205	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:52:00 - [17] - Quote Kilo Shells wrote: Cat Merc wrote: AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari I am truly king in CQC with my fast reload and my firing delay on my pistol... I actually run an AR and so yes the ACR is ridiculous the only downside is you have to reload after you've killed everyone I agree, the ACR is ridiculous. The AR does have 2 things going for it though. 1: You run out of ammo much less. With an ACR (or even a CR for that matter) if you don't die, and don't run nanohives, you are constantly ammo starved. I don't find this the case with the AR. 2: Price. For less competitive game play, paying 17K for the cheapest ACR isn't possible for everyone. If you wan't a full auto rifle that isn't the RR, the AR is the way to go. Other than these 2 things, and the whole reload after each kill that Kilo Shells mentioned, the ACR is victor.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5549	Posted - 2014.04.18 18:16:00 - [18] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Kilo Shells wrote: Cat Merc wrote: AR is Gallente Gallente are the enemies of Caldari CCP is Caldari I am truly king in CQC with my fast reload and my firing delay on my pistol... I actually run an AR and so yes the ACR is ridiculous the only downside is you have to reload after you've killed everyone I agree, the ACR is ridiculous. The AR does have 2 things going for it though. 1: You run out of ammo much less. With an ACR (or even a CR for that matter) if you don't die, and don't run nanohives, you are constantly ammo starved. I don't find this the case with the AR. 2: Price. For less competitive game play, paying 17K for the cheapest ACR isn't possible for everyone. If you wan't a full auto rifle that isn't the RR, the AR is the way to go. Other than these 2 things, and the whole reload after each kill that Kilo Shells mentioned, the ACR is victor. Right well you aren't shitting out entire magazines (THEY'RE NOT ******* CLIPS, CCP ) with the AR Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
KILLER EI ITE16 Inner.Hell 14	Posted - 2014.04.18 19:14:00 - [19] - Quote I use the combat rifle, I have it prof 5 I can take out pretty much any suit that Is armor tanked (Gal heavys are the hardest if they are stacking armor plates) I usually can't take out a shield tanked suit with 500+ shields especially the Caldari heavy even if I'm able to flank it. (Note I do only use the basic or adv Combat rifle in pubs).
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5555	Posted - 2014.04.18 19:32:00 - [20] - Quote KILLER EI ITE16 wrote: I use the combat rifle, I have it prof 5 I can take out pretty much any suit that Is armor tanked (Gal heavys are the hardest if they are stacking armor plates) I usually can't take out a shield tanked suit with 500+ shields especially the Caldari heavy even if I'm able to flank it. (Note I do only use the basic or adv Combat rifle in pubs). Rail Rifle would have a harder time but it's high damage rounds can punch through in a hurry it seems. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182



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