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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
851
   |
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently, weapon damage profiles are not properly balanced, in that the bonus (or reduction) to armor/shields ranges from 20% (-20%) to 5% (-5%). Here's a way to better balance the weapons, and provide for a more intuitive damage profile:
- Laser weapons do +20% damage to shields and -20% damage to armor.
- Projectile weapons do +20% damage to armor and -20% damage to shields.
- Hybrid - basters do +10% damage to shields and -10% damage to armor.
- Hybrid - railguns do +10% damage to armor and -10% damage to shields.
- Explosives do +5% damage to armor and -5% damage to shields.
Currently, projectile weapons have an imbalanced damage profile in that they only do -5% damage to shields but do +10% damage to armor. Also, currently, explosives do +20% damage to armor and -20% damage to shields. (See this post here.)
Increasing effectiveness of projectiles to +20/-20 does two things: 1) it better balances projectiles against the other damage profiles and 2) it gives damage modifiers so that there is a weapon that provides armor/shield shred (projectile/laser) and moderate armor/shield bonus damage (hybrid types).
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
275
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
...Or we can just remove damage profiles entirely, because they are pretty worthless in an infantry-based FPS.
Each race has a different tanking style. And every individual player also has their own tanking style that may or may not align with their race. And then there's the Sentinel bonuses, as well as Commando and Assault bonuses.
So you not only have to align your loadout with the damage profiles (Which kinda makes sense due to racial alignments, even if a mercenary shouldn't give a **** about such things) but also analyze in a split second during a fight:
- Weight class
- Specialization
- Racial alignment
- Your own weapon type
And then, once you decide to shoot the Amarr Assault with your Mass Driver, you find out that the ****** is shield tanking instead of using damage mods.
And then two sentinels attack you from behind.
Where the hell does decision making ever factor into a game where damage profiles and tanking profiles are adjusted independantly, with only a few seconds TTK? You can't even react at a glance because there is no visual indicator for individual tanking styles.
It makes sense for vehicles due to their larger health pools and overdrive modules, but the profiles should be taken out of infantry combat.
The only kind of infantry that can profit from damage profiles is scouts, because they are fast enough to run away and can hide their scan profile with the cloak and also get an early warning due to their huge passive scan. However, this only goes with long-range equipment - There is no rectifying your mistake with an AR. For everyone else, it just randomizes combat, especially with the changes to damage proficiencies.
Now your Scrambler Rifle is even worse against Amarr and Gallente and anyone else who brick tanks on armor, but will have a hilariously easy time at melting shield tankers. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
851
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 18:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:...Or we can just remove damage profiles entirely, because they are pretty worthless in an infantry-based FPS.
Each race has a different tanking style. And every individual player also has their own tanking style that may or may not align with their race. Referring to the underlined section, then the response is that probably picked the wrong race. If you're picking Amarr to shield tank, sorry, but you're doing it wrong.
Damage profiles add some flavor and some variety to the game. For example, if you see the enemy team are all running Caldari with RRs, then your best bet is probably to switch to using laser rifles to better take them down. If you see the enemy team is using projectiles mainly, switch to shield suits, etc. Removing damage profiles really doesn't make any sense and it'd only serve to homogenize the game. Variety and customization are what calls players to play MMOs. If Dust is the be a truly great FPS MMO, then it has to retain as much heterogeneity as possible.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
275
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Referring to the underlined section, then the response is that probably picked the wrong race. If you're picking Amarr to shield tank, sorry, but you're doing it wrong.
Amarr has high slots for damage mods. They are perfectly usable for shielding instead.
Make arguments based on the game, not on the lore.
Quote:
Damage profiles add some flavor and some variety to the game. For example, if you see the enemy team are all running Caldari with RRs, then your best bet is probably to switch to using laser rifles to better take them down. If you see the enemy team is using projectiles mainly, switch to shield suits, etc. Removing damage profiles really doesn't make any sense and it'd only serve to homogenize the game. Variety and customization are what calls players to play MMOs. If Dust is the be a truly great FPS MMO, then it has to retain as much heterogeneity as possible.
To change to the laser rifle, I will also need to change to an Amarr suit, because Amarr gets the Laser Rifle bonus. As I am a Gallente player, I have my skills into Gallente stuff (Even if I plan to expand to Caldari stuff later on).
Increasing the amount of variables does not increase the amount of options.
You can ADD options by removing variables.
For example, if all Amarr are armor tanked and all Caldari are shield tanked, etc., then I can totally see the point in damage profiles.
However, you can currently CHANGE your tanking profile into an atypical one. If you can do that, then there shouldn't be damage profiles, because otherwise you run into a random mix of taking/weapon profiles that basically amount to rolling your dice on who gets to kill whom the fastest.
It's not like armor and shield are identical. They behave differently. VERY differently. Which is in contrast to damage profiles, which only differ in the percentage of damage that they produce.
Removing damage profiles would allow players to focus more on the inherent advantages and disadvantages of the two armor types, instead of worrying about enemy damage types in addition to their own preferred playstyles.
Currently, there is no point in caring about damage/tanking profiles, because there are too many variables.
You have 16 enemies running around. Every single enemy has a different suit. And, even in Faction Warfare, you are guaranteed to run into a wide variety of suits. When you respawn, you might very well run into the same dude who's now wearing the opposite kind of loadout.
It's already hard to find a supply depot to change into an AV fit. Reacting to infantry combat is even more ********.
Damage profiles make sense in organized situations where there's room to react. Which doesn't exist in this game.
We need a faction-locked Faction Warfare or a longer TTK in order to make the choice meaningful. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
851
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:Amarr has high slots for damage mods. They are perfectly usable for shielding instead.
Make arguments based on the game, not on the lore. How about this: Amarr have the least amount of high slots. They have the longest shield recharge delays and recharge times. They have the lowest shield regen (once the regen timer comes up). So, you tell me, is this really an "effective" shield tanker? No. Is it *possible* to shield tank? Yes. But is it practical? No. Does it make sense? No. Are you gimping your suit by shield tanking an Amarr suit? Yes. Let's not talk about what's "possible" vs. what's obviously intended.
Sole Fenychs wrote:However, you can currently CHANGE your tanking profile into an atypical one. Again, we're not talking about what's *possible*. I mean, is it possible to fit a tank with no main weapon? Yes. Is it practical? No. It's certainly possible to fit your Amarr scout with 1 shield extender in the single high and no armor modules in the 4 lows, but that hardly means it's a shield tanker. It just means that you have poorly fit an armor suit.
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