DUST Search - Amarr and Minmatar scout survival rate [Scan Profile]

Smooth Assassin wrote:

I still don't know how some of my scout buddies can survive with high profiles. its pretty stupid, the minmatar scout is an assassin but can be easily countered by scanners and its HP and PG is too low to survive any attacks. The amarr scout is just being misused massively with the ruthless armor tanking. Scanners aren't a problem unless someone actually catches you in their path, but if a caldari scout finds a minmatar hacking a objective then the minmatar is pretty much dead.

I've been thinking about this and i've realized that precision modules won't help you in combat, everytime i scan a dropsuit i try to use some sneaky tactics to jump and kill my victim, its most likely a heavy and i'm usually shocked instead of him. You start to see my point. Its a bit smart how CCP did this but by giving the cloak a 25% less dampening on the user when cloaked, it brings back the old passive bonus of a scout suits which is 25% dampening if you all remember correctly. This means that the scout suits have about 3 passive bonuses, 4 if its a gallante or caldari scout.

Now back to the topic, this means that a minmatar scout or amarr would have to place some dampening modules to truly be a sneaky assassin that is merely impossible since i can bet you a caldari scout is roaming around every match.

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Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1218	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:09:00 - [1] - Quote I still don't know how some of my scout buddies can survive with high profiles. its pretty stupid, the minmatar scout is an assassin but can be easily countered by scanners and its HP and PG is too low to survive any attacks. The amarr scout is just being misused massively with the ruthless armor tanking. Scanners aren't a problem unless someone actually catches you in their path, but if a caldari scout finds a minmatar hacking a objective then the minmatar is pretty much dead. I've been thinking about this and i've realized that precision modules won't help you in combat, everytime i scan a dropsuit i try to use some sneaky tactics to jump and kill my victim, its most likely a heavy and i'm usually shocked instead of him. You start to see my point. Its a bit smart how CCP did this but by giving the cloak a 25% less dampening on the user when cloaked, it brings back the old passive bonus of a scout suits which is 25% dampening if you all remember correctly. This means that the scout suits have about 3 passive bonuses, 4 if its a gallante or caldari scout. Now back to the topic, this means that a minmatar scout or amarr would have to place some dampening modules to truly be a sneaky assassin that is merely impossible since i can bet you a caldari scout is roaming around every match. *Assassination is my thing.*
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1995	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:20:00 - [2] - Quote Well, they're not made to hide; Gallente is. Also, if you think that scanning is the only EWAR, you're silly. Ask CCP to put the rest of it in and maybe it won't be so bad. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2549	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:21:00 - [3] - Quote How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2754	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:39:00 - [4] - Quote Well amarr and minmatarr scouts are just silly. The only thing that the minmatarr scout has going for is the hacking bonus. And nova knifes are just way too situational. Like you can only kill some 1 with the knifes when he has his back turned to you or you wait with charged knifes around a corner and thats it. Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 1145	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote I can avoid Cal scouts for the most part What's wrong with having dampeners? I'd be a pretty ** ninja / assassin if I was that easy to detect. Fizzer94 wrote:** How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? I'd say you are correct. Its just a shame the other scouts can do it without regard simply because their bonuses allow them to do their role largely without much compromise (though they're much better when they do augment it, in my opinion) "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 784	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:52:00 - [6] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: I still don't know how some of my scout buddies can survive with high profiles. its pretty stupid, the minmatar scout is an assassin but can be easily countered by scanners and its HP and PG is too low to survive any attacks. The amarr scout is just being misused massively with the ruthless armor tanking. Scanners aren't a problem unless someone actually catches you in their path, but if a caldari scout finds a minmatar hacking a objective then the minmatar is pretty much dead. I've been thinking about this and i've realized that precision modules won't help you in combat, everytime i scan a dropsuit i try to use some sneaky tactics to jump and kill my victim, its most likely a heavy and i'm usually shocked instead of him. You start to see my point. Its a bit smart how CCP did this but by giving the cloak a 25% less dampening on the user when cloaked, it brings back the old passive bonus of a scout suits which is 25% dampening if you all remember correctly. This means that the scout suits have about 3 passive bonuses, 4 if its a gallante or caldari scout. Now back to the topic, this means that a minmatar scout or amarr would have to place some dampening modules to truly be a sneaky assassin that is merely impossible since i can bet you a caldari scout is roaming around every match. So, 1) No, the 25% non-stacking-penalized dampening of the cloak completely destroys any type of balance in the interplay between scanning and dampening. This has been proven over and over again, so I won't go into detail as to why that assertion is horribly wrong. CCP just messed up. 2) There is no specialty of the amarr scout, this also has been proven over and over again. It is quite literally the worst choice you could make when deciding on a scout suit. Armor tanking the amarr scout is just about the only thing it is ok at. 3) If you die because you try to jump a heavy, that is on you. Having detailed knowledge of the enemies position is an extremely useful function, otherwise no one would have used scanners before. 4) If you want to remain hidden, you should have to fit modules to be hidden. Enhancers and dampners are those two modules. Cloaks the balance between them because it seriously upsets that balance. Might as well make scanners have a free non-stacking-penalized complex precision enhancer. Fixing swarms
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 1308	Posted - 2014.04.13 19:13:00 - [7] - Quote I have no issues running my Min scout with knives. I don't stack HP, I do run with damps, precision, and kincats and an extra code breaker. Knives are only as situational as you make them. With the Min scout I can kill most any suit with a single uncharged attack, and with my sprint speed up around the 10m/s mark, IF I am ever in a situation where I start to get swarmed, I can sprint away and most times take out the 1 or 2 medium frames that are in my way during my escape. Heavies, well yeah, they pose a problem and must be attacked from the side or back but even still, a fully brick tanked Gal heavy is only a 2 shot kill, still under 3 sec TTK with knives. One charge shot, one quick strike. Cal scouts are a problem only if they stack complex precision and cloak with a shotgun (and get the jump on you), far too many of them are so reliant on their passive scans (See the 360 scanners from 1.7) that if it doesn't show up on their radar, it could be standing right in front of them and they won't notice. From what I've noticed is that if they can see me, I can see them, because they have stacked a bunch of precision mods on to pick me up while I'm cloaked, but they still feel the need for higher EHP, so they stack armor instead of damps, and if I can't see them, well that's where the old eyeballs come in to play, not going solo through choke points where they usually hide, let that heavy go first and then knife the scout as soon as he goes for the heavy kill. Gal scouts catch me by surprise almost as much as I do them, they don't have to run the damps that I do, but a lot of the time they don't run the precision that I do either. It's usually the case of us literally running in to each other while cloaked, or turning a corner and BAM! were face to face even uncloaked and then we do the dance of our people until one of us walks away as the disco king of the encounter. The Min scout is in a good place. I can't say the same for the Amarr. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3910	Posted - 2014.04.13 19:26:00 - [8] - Quote Isn't it the whole point of the CalScout to be a scout hunter? If it can find & kill the Minmatar running about on a hack spree, then surely that's working as intended. The Amarr has no role, so personally I don't mind it being armour tanked. It's the Gallente that is the problem. CCP clearly learned nothing from the days of OP logis and their built in reps. They've made a suit capable of simultaneously being relatively undetectable, and durable enough to stand up to equally tanked medium frames. It's absurd. No.
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 422	Posted - 2014.04.13 20:01:00 - [9] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: I still don't know how some of my scout buddies can survive with high profiles. its pretty stupid, the minmatar scout is an assassin but can be easily countered by scanners and its HP and PG is too low to survive any attacks. The amarr scout is just being misused massively with the ruthless armor tanking. Scanners aren't a problem unless someone actually catches you in their path, but if a caldari scout finds a minmatar hacking a objective then the minmatar is pretty much dead. I've been thinking about this and i've realized that precision modules won't help you in combat, everytime i scan a dropsuit i try to use some sneaky tactics to jump and kill my victim, its most likely a heavy and i'm usually shocked instead of him. You start to see my point. Its a bit smart how CCP did this but by giving the cloak a 25% less dampening on the user when cloaked, it brings back the old passive bonus of a scout suits which is 25% dampening if you all remember correctly. This means that the scout suits have about 3 passive bonuses, 4 if its a gallante or caldari scout. Now back to the topic, this means that a minmatar scout or amarr would have to place some dampening modules to truly be a sneaky assassin that is merely impossible since i can bet you a caldari scout is roaming around every match. its all about damps my gal scout has nothing less then 2 damps from std - proto cloak equipped or not 2 damps should be standard on any scout but most are not willing to equip this IMO one of your main focuses should be getting below cal passive scanning (always assume they have 2 complex precision) Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2246	Posted - 2014.04.13 20:48:00 - [10] - Quote They've survived while 360 scans were a thing, they can still do it now. I'm pretty sure any scout can go under the radar of a Caldari Scout if they have their cloak on (and the Caldari has no precision mods).
C Saunders Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 841	Posted - 2014.04.13 20:59:00 - [11] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Well amarr and minmatarr scouts are just silly. The only thing that the minmatarr scout has going for is the hacking bonus. And nova knifes are just way too situational. Like you can only kill some 1 with the knifes when he has his back turned to you or you wait with charged knifes around a corner and thats it. I use a min scout with a mass driver and Nova knives. All skills relating to those 3 are maxed out. All 3 have steep learning curves. Once perfected, they are deadly. Dont underestimate Nova Knives. Paired with the cloak they can be absolutley deadly. It just takes time to learn them. Went 33-0 in a domination with ADV Min scout, EXO-5, Ishokune Knives, ADV Cloak and REs. Due to the low ammo count for the MD I was running around with nothing but knives for the majority of the game. // Fully Specced Mass Driver Expert // Proto Min Scout // Closed Beta Vet // Tech Guard Director //
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 179	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:01:00 - [12] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Isn't it the whole point of the CalScout to be a scout hunter? If it can find & kill the Minmatar running about on a hack spree, then surely that's working as intended. The Amarr has no role, so personally I don't mind it being armour tanked. It's the Gallente that is the problem. CCP clearly learned nothing from the days of OP logis and their built in reps. They've made a suit capable of simultaneously being relatively undetectable, and durable enough to stand up to equally tanked medium frames. It's absurd. HAHAHA! durable??? the Amarr scout is the durable one. if you are referring to the armor HP tanking, those people are abusing. and for HP tanking, a Cal scout with shield extenders is much better because it gets high HP while being able to retain regular scout speed. if you are referring to its natural repair rate, its less than what you would get if you were skilled into and using enhanced armor repairers. its only good really for weaker scouts. tanked scouts take a bit longer due to their total hp. Every suit Gk.0 <3 Gallente Federation Patriot
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 166	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:08:00 - [13] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: It's the Gallente that is the problem. CCP clearly learned nothing from the days of OP logis and their built in reps. They've made a suit capable of simultaneously being relatively undetectable, and durable enough to stand up to equally tanked medium frames. It's absurd. This is false. The GalScout is quite capable of being be undetectable or durable, but not both simultaneously. It is irresponsible to compare it to the EZ Mode Cal and Gal Logis from this past year. Bang?
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1220	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:15:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. *Assassination is my thing.*
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1220	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:16:00 - [15] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Well, they're not made to hide; Gallente is. Also, if you think that scanning is the only EWAR, you're silly. Ask CCP to put the rest of it in and maybe it won't be so bad. I don't think scanning is only for EWAR. *Assassination is my thing.*
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2820	Posted - 2014.04.13 21:36:00 - [16] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Oooh you mean that sh*t bonus that CCP just pulled out their ass, boy it's like I've always died because I had to much stamina or not enough speed or maybe it's the lack of Ewar capabilities the suit has... Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2556	Posted - 2014.04.13 22:00:00 - [17] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Amarr. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1220	Posted - 2014.04.13 22:02:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Amarr. Just because its amarr doesn't make it not a scout. *Assassination is my thing.*
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2556	Posted - 2014.04.13 22:28:00 - [19] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Amarr. Just because its amarr doesn't make it not a scout. Shield tanking Caldari Scouts is misusing Caldari Scouts. Speed Tanking Minmatar Scouts is misusing them. Gallente Scouts with Armor Repairers is wrong. [/sarcasm] Armor Tanking is just what the Amarr do. Regardless of suit size. Tell you what, once we get Webs and Nosferatus that can be augmented with low slot modules/are low slot modules, I'll get those plates out of my lows. If an Amarr suit should be putting ANYTHING in its low slots, it should be Armor Plates and Armor Plate Accessories. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3917	Posted - 2014.04.13 22:44:00 - [20] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: It's the Gallente that is the problem. CCP clearly learned nothing from the days of OP logis and their built in reps. They've made a suit capable of simultaneously being relatively undetectable, and durable enough to stand up to equally tanked medium frames. It's absurd. This is false. The GalScout is quite capable of being either undetectable or durable, but not both simultaneously. It is irresponsible to compare it to the EZ Mode Cal and Gal Logis from this past year. Its passives alone make it incredibly stealthy. After that it's just a matter of slapping on armour mods. No.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3919	Posted - 2014.04.13 23:03:00 - [21] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Most scouts still have some stamina by the time they reach their destination. Armoir tanking is the only sure way to run out of stamina. Meaning you're more likely to get the most out of the Amarr bonus if you tank it. No.
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 426	Posted - 2014.04.13 23:58:00 - [22] - Quote I wouldn't armor tank an amarr scout outside of PC a better amarr fit would be 2 complex damps, a complex kincat, some precision or damage mods, and a rep Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 1016	Posted - 2014.04.14 00:18:00 - [23] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: How is armor tanking an Amarr scout misuseing it? Check the bonus. Amarr. Just because its amarr doesn't make it not a scout. The Amarr "scout" is the only scout suit with ZERO to repeat ZERO EWAR bonuses its bonus is merely to run a bit longer then the others while being slower then an Assault (WTF...). It is quite obvious CCP intends the the Amarr "Scout" to be to a light assault that can use a cloak as opposed the typical cloak and dagger scout. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Scheneighnay McBob Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4755	Posted - 2014.04.14 01:06:00 - [24] - Quote Amarr: fit a ***** dampener, you have enough armor Minmatar: who needs a low profile when you kill the ** out of anything you see? These are my 2 favorite scouts to use. I'm from the weird side of the internet
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1859	Posted - 2014.04.14 01:17:00 - [25] - Quote No, Amarr is not being misused because their is nothing that says scouting involves being a ninja assassin. The Amarr scout is truly keeping with the Amarr philosophy of move straight in , take the hit, overwhelm. If you are actually trying to scout ahead this makes sense in that you'd be the first on the scene. It is the combo of survival through armor and scouting through speed that makes it successful. If anything, the emphasis on low profile to such an extent as to completely disappear is ruining the idea of a scout scouting and instead just being a beast of a ninja assassin. That is no the purpose of the scout suit, only an emergent and popular playstyle. Most likely CCP is catering to the popularity of that playstyle by making the cloak and low profile so easy to achieve. But, they are also still sticking with the intended use as an advanced recon and ops suit as evidenced by the Minny and Amarr bonuses and loadout. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!

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