DUST Search - What the Cloak has done and what Nerfing the cloak will do

All Channels

General Discussions

What the Cloak has done and what Nerfing the cloak will do - DOOM?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 246	Posted - 2014.04.12 06:25:00 - [1] - Quote Lets start this backwards... What will nerfing the cloak do? The other major issue evolving is the heavy unbreakable tank fits. I have already seen some. Props, my cloak scout can only knife them, and when they survive that 90% of the time I am dead. NOPE. Cloak nerfs will nerf Scouts back to pre 1.8 - But its not 1.7 there is a new abundance of heavies! When the Cloak is nerfed the FOTM player types will all switch to heavy suits with huge tanks until 1.9 (nerfs them). So many people in heavies, it will force players in lighter suits to use Assault and logi, you will need the HP to even compete. a 300HP scout with no cloak and a shotgun runs into a 1000HP Heavy with a shotgun. What has the Cloak done for the game: Already people are getting wise to it. It has limited the amount of soloers and hero hunters. People are player more as a team, they are not blindly running into buildings, they wait for a scout or back up. Logi and Assault are not just solo running around hacking. You see less proto suits in public matches because even they die trying to run the hero solo hunter. That is bad? NO!... The cloak has increase the in-game tactics more then anything else in 1.8 update. Acceptable nerf: Small increase in decloak delay (SMALL) with a added sound effect for the other player. This would allow the other player to hear the scout decloak even if the scout was out of view. It would limit some decloaking right beside enemies - as the added warning would alert them and others close. This is a similar effect used in other MMOs.. Where cloak is real CLOAK!! invisible... which makes these nerfs sad.. its already not real cloak! Nerfing the Cloak will nerf the NANO knife back to pre 1.8 and will put all the (precision enhances, dampeners, range increasers) back in the useless pile. The current issue is the gap, unbreakable tanks require players to fit shields and armor ++. But then scouts make players fit precision enhances and dampeners.... They can't fit both - or they are gimped.. The game in 1.8 is paper, rock, scissors... Don't pick paper
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 246	Posted - 2014.04.12 07:04:00 - [2] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: I will get the marshmellows ready for the fire. p.s. i disagree with the sound delay. I just think you need to shorten the length of time you stay cloaked. Be wiser on when or when not to activate it. This will help seperate skill from noobs trying to abuse invisibility We are kind of suggesting the same thing. The sound delay lets 300HP scouts run around and find the right situation to attack or to inform squad. But with a sound warning on decloak you could not kill a whole group even if they were not on mics bla bla.. This will limit some declock to kill tactics.. Scouts would see the place, decloak 15m away and come in for the kill. Your suggestion just leaves scouts naked and easy to run into and kill similar to 1.7 - reverse it so its harder to decloak close to enemies lets the scout use positional tactics and makes it harder for noobs who just run in an decloak to kill. If you limit the cloak timer you will just nerf the cloak for its intended use. The noobs will abuse anything FOTM - it will be what ever is OP next, which we know is heavy tanks.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 247	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:53:00 - [3] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: It is the noobs abusing this and you expect them to comprehend positional tactics? I am hoping the right people will read this. trolling over scout HP being rounded to 300 is no the topic here. Its just the minor thing they can troll the post over. The fact is the abundance of new heavy suits will make the scout nerf back to 1.7 even worse. People will go back to stacking all armor and shield s on ever suit to combat heavy influx. To bad people need to troll semantics instead of addressing the topic and issue I have presented. I think it shows they have nothing to offer and re as you say John Ripper... unable to comprehend tactics. P.S They did not troll my heavy suit HP round up to 1000 only the scout. Why, I bet because they have no idea what the Heavy suits HP is now LOL
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 247	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:06:00 - [4] - Quote Rich o wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: 300HP scouts. scouts dont have 300 HP, they have more unless you are using minmatar one or are a scrub with a bad fit LOL, my to-go fit has 320 HP (Gallente) and I have no problems at all, as long as I don't run into organized squads. Most scouts using biotics have around 200-300 HP. Only because YOU are not able to run a low-HP suit doesn't mean that others doing so are scrubs I think you failed to understand the overpost and topic...
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 248	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:08:00 - [5] - Quote Rich o wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Rich o wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: 300HP scouts. scouts dont have 300 HP, they have more unless you are using minmatar one or are a scrub with a bad fit LOL, my to-go fit has 320 HP (Gallente) and I have no problems at all, as long as I don't run into organized squads. Most scouts using biotics have around 200-300 HP. Only because YOU are not able to run a low-HP suit doesn't mean that others doing so are scrubs I think you failed to understand the overpost and topic... Why? Jack picks the "300HP scouts" out oft your post, says that only scrubs with crappy fittings vor minmatar-scouts have 300 HP (all the others more) and I replied to this particular comment. Has nothing to do with your post or the topic. Oh my bad, I thought you were flaming me. But your not, sorry!
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 248	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:28:00 - [6] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The only nerf I would accept is to make the cloak deactivation instant rather than taking a while to fully decloak. How is that a nerf?
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 248	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:35:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: The only nerf I would accept is to make the cloak deactivation instant rather than taking a while to fully decloak. How is that a nerf? I'm asking myself that question now. Some people see it as a nerf. Other acceptable nerfs (not all together but one) Would be a declock effect when shot (currently you stay cloaked) You go live on mini map when firing weapons, scouts would be visible on the mini map when firing - for all weapons but knifes - Give us scouts that!!
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 249	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:45:00 - [8] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: The only nerf I would accept is to make the cloak deactivation instant rather than taking a while to fully decloak. How is that a nerf? I'm asking myself that question now. Some people see it as a nerf. Other acceptable nerfs (not all together but one) Would be a declock effect when shot (currently you stay cloaked) You go live on mini map when firing weapons, scouts would be visible on the mini map when firing - for all weapons but knifes - Give us scouts that!! (But then all go live on map when firing :D) Well, for starters, it does make sense to at least decloak the user if hit by a FLUX of all things. The flux is an EMP weapon after all. I agree, but lets not make this a cloak nerf - make it a grenade update. The Flux should effect all equipment then... Drop uplinks, ammo, reps, scans (for a time, maybe 5 secs). But EMP would effect all these things... If it effected the cloak?
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 253	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:02:00 - [9] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: General John Ripper wrote: I will get the marshmellows ready for the fire. p.s. i disagree with the sound delay. I just think you need to shorten the length of time you stay cloaked. Be wiser on when or when not to activate it. This will help seperate skill from noobs trying to abuse invisibility I think a change to cloaks to make them have much shorter duration but much faster recharge would alleviate some of the problems. It makes moving from cover to cover while cloaked still easy, but makes it more difficult to sprint across entire complexes while maintaining cloak. It will force scouts to play more hit and run by making the cloak a "wave of opportunity" equipment, instead of an essentially permanent boost like it is now. The issue here is scouts still run around naked and open to distance weapons that have consumed many aspects of the game. With very low HP that some rifles can remove in 2-5 secs, scouts need cloak timers to be long. They are not the issue. Your suggestion will lead to more brick scouts playing like cloaky assault suits with distance weapons. I will run up 700HP and cloak behind them to unleash my Combat Rifle from 35m... Believe me that is not the cloak style you wan to promote. Your still looking at the wrong end. Don't remove utility - Make the combat tactics harder... Longer delay before you can recloak, decloaking sound and small weapon use delay when decloaking (my idea). Make sense? - This will giv ethe cloak utility still for scouting... and will allow skilled cloak users the ability to see be assassins (something CCP said would be in Dust 514).
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 253	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:28:00 - [10] - Quote axis alpha wrote: There needs to be a 5 second delay before you can fire or deploy anything after you decloak Wow did you just invent that number? I think so.. But yes a delay will help.. 5 seconds would kill knifer assassins. The issue is not just the cloak. Small changes to the shotgun to, the one variant is useless and the 2 shot SG should be the only insta killing. I think there is more then just QQ NERF screaming (all we have see thus far).

Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 255	Posted - 2014.04.13 02:05:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: The cloak needs to have that free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener removed from it. There is absolutely no good reason for it to be there, and it unbalances an entire form of warfare. Do you know if its active when uncloaked? I thought only well you were cloaked - or are you just raging QQ?
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 255	Posted - 2014.04.13 05:28:00 - [12] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: I'm not really upset with how the cloak operates, just its ability to be combined with certain other weapons/modules. Armor plates are annoying when I've spotted the cloaker and unloaded a mass driver at them and they still keep coming at me and kill me. Also the shotgun's rate of fire and swap speed is so fast it has an alarming DPS and can easily blind side many sentinels. With these combos of cloak+armor+shotgun+hit detection issues, a suicide banker can drop an otherwise well-assembled squad with good teamwork working together. I know, for I have done this. Multiple times since 1.8. But, you see here we have the real culprits: high RoF DPS shotgun needs a scaling back (in favor of more impressive alpha damage) and plates need heavier fitting requirements and/or greater mobility penalty. As far as the cloak itself lets exclude the glitches which should be ironed out eventually, namely the ability to fire before the decloaking finishes, and the swapping to anything other than the cloak tool doesn't insta-drain the cloak meter. Honestly, it feels fairly balanced. I would say decrease the shimmer when moving slowly would not be a bad call. Also perhaps tone down the profile dampener effect some on the Basic and Advance models (if only to make the Prototype version more attractive). I agree issue would be with the shotgun not the cloak mechanics.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 258	Posted - 2014.04.13 17:59:00 - [13] - Quote SGT NOVA STAR wrote: lol don't think iv never seen anyone try this hard to save their crutch before. People are just scared, they need to feel invisible to have more fun, hackers make themselves invisible on games all the time, so when any game legitimately has cloak, the rats come out of the woodwork. People want things easy, that's why people love cloak. Scout shotgun and cloak has been done to death, everyone is just a last year cliche now. Then again this is dust, no pride or self respect. What?
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 259	Posted - 2014.04.14 00:07:00 - [14] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Hold on? So people aren't now allowed to lone wolf in pub matches? Which as I would like to point out "is suitable for lone mercs amd small squads". By all means, encourage more squad play, make it more profitable to play as squad sure, but don't force me, in a game which is about "fighting YOUR war YOUR way" to either play a cloaked scout or in a team. HOWEVER the only chamge required of cloaks is to make it require a manual deactivation EVERY TIME. Now the cloakers have to think if they can afford to be detected so close to the enemy, without their weapon drawn. What, you cant draw a weapon when cloaked.. Your just a QQ with no idea. L2P
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 261	Posted - 2014.04.14 02:48:00 - [15] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Leave the time a player stays cloaked the same but alter the quality of the cloak at the start and end. Rather than near instant on, make it take 5 seconds to reach maximum. So you get a fade out effect at the start of the cloak cycle. Rather than instant off, make it take 10 seconds to turn off. So you get a fade-in effect at the end of the cloak cycle. Pulling out a weapon should be instant off, though. Pulling a weapon should instantly discharge the cloak. A player should have to wait for the full charge up cycle to use the cloak again. Munch Your just talking about a nerf. 5 sec - 10 secs - number you just made up. And way to long to be effective. I think your just a nerf QQer - maybe not. But your solution is a nerf with little thought given to the scouts perspective.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 261	Posted - 2014.04.14 05:49:00 - [16] - Quote Doctor Day wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Lets start this backwards... What will nerfing the cloak do? The other major issue evolving is the heavy unbreakable tank fits. I have already seen some. Props, my cloak scout can only knife them, and when they survive that 90% of the time I am dead. NOPE. Cloak nerfs will nerf Scouts back to pre 1.8 - But its not 1.7 there is a new abundance of heavies! When the Cloak is nerfed the FOTM player types will all switch to heavy suits with huge tanks until 1.9 (nerfs them). So many people in heavies, it will force players in lighter suits to use Assault and logi, you will need the HP to even compete. a 300HP scout with no cloak and a shotgun runs into a 1000HP Heavy with a shotgun. What has the Cloak done for the game: Already people are getting wise to it. It has limited the amount of soloers and hero hunters. People are player more as a team, they are not blindly running into buildings, they wait for a scout or back up. Logi and Assault are not just solo running around hacking. You see less proto suits in public matches because even they die trying to run the hero solo hunter. That is bad? NO!... The cloak has increase the in-game tactics more then anything else in 1.8 update. Acceptable nerf: Small increase in decloak delay (SMALL) with a added sound effect for the other player. This would allow the other player to hear the scout decloak even if the scout was out of view. It would limit some decloaking right beside enemies - as the added warning would alert them and others close. This is a similar effect used in other MMOs.. Where cloak is real CLOAK!! invisible... which makes these nerfs sad.. its already not real cloak! Suggestion to Buff over Nerf: Give an assault suit a 5% bonus to cloak use. (similar to a assassin MMO style and a Ranger MMO style) The Assault cloak would be less effective but would be a scout killer suit.. making scouts fear the blue tint to! (CCP always buff others never nerf, if it comes out so bad it requires a nerf it should be bad and not just the expected norm.) Nerfing the Cloak will nerf the NANO knife back to pre 1.8 and will put all the (precision enhances, dampeners, range increasers) back in the useless pile. The current issue is the gap, unbreakable tanks require players to fit shields and armor ++. But then scouts make players fit precision enhances and dampeners.... They can't fit both - or they are gimped.. The game in 1.8 is paper, rock, scissors... Don't pick paper ...If you nerf scissors, there will be forum fires made with all the rocks banging together get outGçÆ What?
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 263	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:36:00 - [17] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Cloak only really needs two things 1) no firing while cloaked (i think there was a hotfix on this) 2) no free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener (been proven to upset the ewar meta) That's is it, they are pretty ok otherwise. Ya, I don't see the issue with the dampeners.. It will not save the armor and shield stacking suits. Lets be real, there was no ewar meta before 1.8 . The only ewar meta was not to use it, was of time. Every scout stacked brick and speed. The only thing this has done... Created any kinda Ewar.. and made cloak wearing scouts the Glass Cannon of Dust.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 267	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:53:00 - [18] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Athena Sentinel wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Hold on? So people aren't now allowed to lone wolf in pub matches? Which as I would like to point out "is suitable for lone mercs amd small squads". By all means, encourage more squad play, make it more profitable to play as squad sure, but don't force me, in a game which is about "fighting YOUR war YOUR way" to either play a cloaked scout or in a team. HOWEVER the only chamge required of cloaks is to make it require a manual deactivation EVERY TIME. Now the cloakers have to think if they can afford to be detected so close to the enemy, without their weapon drawn. What, you cant draw a weapon when cloaked.. Your just a QQ with no idea. L2P Lol i can draw my weapon and get off two shots before decloaking, if you can't you're bad. L2P. I bet your not even a scout.
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 268	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:33:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cloak nerfs will nerf Scouts back to pre 1.8 .... hahahaha. Walks away. Not to abuse my honorary bastard title but I can't take you seriously on the subject concerning scouts. Your thread on cloaks was pure Nerf... I have reported you for your very unprofessional behaviour. I am surprised CCP allows people like you to represent them in any way. -1 The nerfs you suggested and asked us to talk about are all included in this thread. Your suggestions to cloak nerfs were ******** and show zero understanding of the environment of 1.8 and issues. You should be removed from you honorary bastard title as you abuse it with posts like the one I have pasted above. A professional would not have to troll a players thread. You think this game is a charity? they don't want my $$ ? Ok I will not waste my $.... If they do want my $ I suggest respecting your player base and not trolling posts. You have 100% lost all of my respect. On every subject.