DUST Search - [Suggestions] Industry & Open Market

One Eyed King wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

One additional benefit of expanding the Dust economy like Eve Online is the implementation of a niche gameplay that not that many people know in the FPS genre. Marketeering.

In Eve Online, due to the flexible nature of the free market, there are players who make hundreds of millions of ISK every week or month (depending on how good they are) without ever undocking from their station for months at a time or almost never. You'll usually find these people in systems like Jita, Amarr, Rens, and Dodixie. But mainly in Jita and Amarr.

Imagine seeing this in Dust where players make massive profit without even leaving their merc quarters. But keep in mind that marketeers is a HIGH RISK with HIGH REWARD gameplay by itself and it doesn't need CCP to manage it when market forces alone will keep in check. This niche gameplay is why it's called a niche because only those players with a very good marketing skill set can pull it off like that while trying to do their best to avoid the high risks I'm talking about.

I have dealt with marketeers for months and I can tell you that's not easy at all especially when you need to invest a lot of capital (between 300m to 500m ISK just to start) and train up a boatload of trade skills to cut down on broker fees, taxes, and expand your reach on remote buy/sell orders. You also have to try to gauge the market on which items are the top movers and which are not and that requires investing in commodities that can potentially end up being nothing but junk to you and you can't make any profit with it later on. The value of the commodities also fluctuate from day to day so your top movers might one day end up being junk the next day or week so you have to constantly be on the lookout and diversify your portfolio.

Is this basically like day trading stocks IRL, or is there something significantly different about it?


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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7907	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:45:00 - [1] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: If they leave the regular market... then obviously the player made items will be sold for cheaper or used for their own corp. (Leaving the default market is probably essential as we don't want ae controlling 100% and controlling who gets guns and who doesnt.) But if you want cheap guns? get up and make alliances. meet people, make deals. If your too lazy. The regular more expensive market is there. Eve Online has a primary NPC market as well similar to Dust, however the items supplied by the primary market (as opposed to the secondary market) are just low-level items that are militia level at best such as Civilian Shield Extenders, Civilian Microwarpdrives, Civilian Mining Lasers, etc. The primary NPC market does not have any of the higher level gear since those are only provided by the players who spent ISK and other resources manufacturing them such as (but not limited to): Exhumers like the Hulk and Mackinaw Tier 3 Battlecruisers like the Tornado and Naga Tech 3 Strategic Cruisers such as the Proteus and Tengu Industrial Command Ships such as the Orca Capital Ships Carriers Super Carriers such as the Sansha Nation Revnant Super Capitals Even if some of these listed above do have an NPC source, those sources are few and limited in quantity for a certain period. As a result, no one cares about them and they are usually far from any known economic hub in New Eden for anyone to bother even if they cared. Again, the vast majority of the NPC market consists of militia-level items (we call them civilian modules in Eve) that only new players use. The point here is that if the primary market should stay, then it should only be limited to supplying militia-level items so as to not put an artificial roof on the prices sold for higher-level items. In regards to corps controlling the majority of PC districts which can eventually be repurposed for harvesting and manufacturing for gear, that can be solved by overhauling PC so that locking districts is no longer profitable or viable. On top of that, the rest of New Eden's regions besides Molden Heath need to open up so that other corps can have other PC sources to compete with. Competition alone will ensure that prices stabilize on their own. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7915	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:09:00 - [2] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: I think there should be benefits such as dust mercs being able to find more rare materials easier than eve pilots but eve pilots can manufacture things twice as quick so it encourages integration. I'm being very vague as I'm really high, I think for getter integration we need dust and eve to rely on each other a bit and to gain more out of it than otherwise. Players need a reason to integrate, merely having it as a more time consuming option isn't reasonable. I also like where the ops idea is going. This is one of the key things about the Eve-Dust economy that I wanted to bring up. Thank you for reminding me. In Eve Online there is this game mechanic known as Planetary Interaction (PI) where Capsuleers can establish colonies on the planets (barren planets, gas planets, lava planets, etc.) in any region in New Eden. These colonies help extract resources needed for the production of Player-Owned Structures (POS) in space such as control towers and customs offices. PI materials make at least 95% of the required materials needed for POS production alone with only non-PI making up the remainder. And since POSes are destructible under a war declaration and if the reinforcement timer runs out, this puts a demand on the resources needed to produce them. A portion of the POS fuel which is needed to function is sourced from many places with a small percentage of that source being PI. As you can see PI opens up an opportunity for Dust and Eve to better integrate. One scenario I can think of is when a Capsuleer offers a Dust corp one of its colonies which is located in an open-world environment (outside of normal matches). The Dust corp benefits by having a place they can call home, practice together in, and earn money on the side from the Capsuleer paying them. If the capsuleer is in the same corp as the Dust corp, which is usually the case right now, then they can cut the expenses together. The capsuleer benefits from increased harvesting yield from the colony and thus better profits in the secondary market while also having the protection needed to defend his colony from other players. This is the future vision I have right now for PI and Dust. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7921	Posted - 2014.04.12 20:03:00 - [3] - Quote One additional benefit of expanding the Dust economy like Eve Online is the implementation of a niche gameplay that not that many people know in the FPS genre. Marketeering. In Eve Online, due to the flexible nature of the free market, there are players who make hundreds of millions of ISK every week or month (depending on how good they are) without ever undocking from their station for months at a time or almost never. You'll usually find these people in systems like Jita, Amarr, Rens, and Dodixie. But mainly in Jita and Amarr. Imagine seeing this in Dust where players make massive profit without even leaving their merc quarters. But keep in mind that marketeers is a HIGH RISK with HIGH REWARD gameplay by itself and it doesn't need CCP to manage it when market forces alone will keep in check. This niche gameplay is why it's called a niche because only those players with a very good marketing skill set can pull it off like that while trying to do their best to avoid the high risks I'm talking about. I have dealt with marketeers for months and I can tell you that's not easy at all especially when you need to invest a lot of capital (between 300m to 500m ISK just to start) and train up a boatload of trade skills to cut down on broker fees, taxes, and expand your reach on remote buy/sell orders. You also have to try to gauge the market on which items are the top movers and which are not and that requires investing in commodities that can potentially end up being nothing but junk to you and you can't make any profit with it later on. The value of the commodities also fluctuate from day to day so your top movers might one day end up being junk the next day or week so you have to constantly be on the lookout and diversify your portfolio. Note: It is extremely likely that the vast majority of Marketeers doing this are either real-world economists, accountants, brokers, daytraders, etc. who just so happen to have a keen eye for tracking money. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7921	Posted - 2014.04.12 20:07:00 - [4] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: One additional benefit of expanding the Dust economy like Eve Online is the implementation of a niche gameplay that not that many people know in the FPS genre. Marketeering. In Eve Online, due to the flexible nature of the free market, there are players who make hundreds of millions of ISK every week or month (depending on how good they are) without ever undocking from their station for months at a time or almost never. You'll usually find these people in systems like Jita, Amarr, Rens, and Dodixie. But mainly in Jita and Amarr. Imagine seeing this in Dust where players make massive profit without even leaving their merc quarters. But keep in mind that marketeers is a HIGH RISK with HIGH REWARD gameplay by itself and it doesn't need CCP to manage it when market forces alone will keep in check. This niche gameplay is why it's called a niche because only those players with a very good marketing skill set can pull it off like that while trying to do their best to avoid the high risks I'm talking about. I have dealt with marketeers for months and I can tell you that's not easy at all especially when you need to invest a lot of capital (between 300m to 500m ISK just to start) and train up a boatload of trade skills to cut down on broker fees, taxes, and expand your reach on remote buy/sell orders. You also have to try to gauge the market on which items are the top movers and which are not and that requires investing in commodities that can potentially end up being nothing but junk to you and you can't make any profit with it later on. The value of the commodities also fluctuate from day to day so your top movers might one day end up being junk the next day or week so you have to constantly be on the lookout and diversify your portfolio. Is this basically like day trading stocks IRL, or is there something significantly different about it? It's exactly like Day Trading in real life with only one exception. ALMOST ZERO GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS IN EVE. Hell, you can scam each other there which is another part of the high risk. EDIT: Damn typos. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7931	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:49:00 - [5] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: if ccp were smart, since eve pve is so terrible they would start by overhauling that system and integrating it with dust pve and then slowly introduce dust to the pvp side of eve in a manner palatable to the the eve player base, creating lore and mechanics that could eventually give dust mercs true power on the ground and make them vital to eve corps economic bottom line. First off, let me say that Eve Online's PvE is not terrible. At least not anymore after years of reward balancing, bug fixes, and the introduction of Sansha Incursions. Second, the idea of linking Dust to Eve via Eve's PvE is an old idea brought up in closed beta. The idea involves Dust players taking control of a certain station or structure in space while the Eve players help Dust players establish a foothold so that both sides can complete certain missions faster and get better rewards. At least that's one of the original ideas. The other idea involved using Sansha Nation Incursions as a link. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor