DUST Search - Brainstorm to improve Melee

Ivan Avogadro wrote:

Then why doesn't anyone do it? Maybe because that would leave a Commando ck.0 with 67 CPU and 19 PG to fit? And he still sprints about as fast as an Assault suit can walk with less stamina. It's why Commandos don't run up to people with Nova Knifes (which still does comparable damage).

The whole point of this thread is to help the Myofibril Stimulant not be a waste of slot space. But since melee is so crummy, compared both to long range and short range weapons, why would anyone bother? It might as well not be in the game, but that makes high slots even less diverse than low slots.

There are 8 types of high slot mods. Except 3 of them are the different Damage Mods (which also just got a huge nerf). 3 of them affect your shields, 1 is for EWAR, and 1 is a useless biotics mod.

There are 12 types of low slot mods, much more diverse. 3 armor plates and 1 armor rep, 2 EWAR mods, 2 biotics mods (both super useful btw), both the CPU and PG upgrade, the hacking mod, and a shield mod (there are no high slot armor mods).

Melee is in the game, it does have a module. Why not make it useful such that people actually think to themselves "should I fit a shield extender or a stimulant...hmmmm tough choices..."?

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Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1011	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:30:00 - [1] - Quote How many people use melee in this game? I donGÇÖt know about you, but melee kill spam is like seeing a unicorn. Heavies have the strongest melee stats, but they canGÇÖt close the gap to use it. Might as well use an HMG or Rifle. Scouts can get close, but they throw the weakest punches. Might as well use a Knife or Shotgun. Where is the usefulness of a melee blow? IGÇÖd rather reload my sidearm and shoot again, than close in for a punch. Even stacking the Myofibril Stimulant is kind of pointless. At maximum skill, 2 complex Myofibril Stimulants can make a scout punch for a whooping 231 damage! Not enough to kill, but certainly enough to wound. But oh, wait. If I equip a PRO Nova Knife, I can do over 500 damage with a charged swipe. PRO Shotgun also unloads more than 600 dmg per trigger pull. In either case, I can increase the damage gap further by using those 2 high slots for Damage Mods instead of stimulants. ItGÇÖs just not worth it to use melee instead of alpha weapons. So what can we do to help Melee, such that it becomes worthwhile to consider the Myofibril Stimulant as an investment? One idea I had: make it so melee will push a character 1m for every 50 damage you punch them for. That way, if you stack mods and punch for 200 dmg, you can push them 4m away (or into the closest object). You could punch someone off a rooftop that way, which could end an engagement you otherwise wouldn't have won. Also, if you didn't have an alpha weapon you could push someone off of a hack instead of killing them, which might be quicker. Just a thought. Any others? Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
Argent Mordred DUST University Ivy League 58	Posted - 2014.04.11 00:43:00 - [2] - Quote If you push them though, you are knocking them away so you can't finish them off. I would rather just leave the melee attack as it is now with regards to pushing. I wouldn't mind having you use your nova knifes if they are equipped instead of your equipped weapon though. Also it might be nice to have the ability to attach a bayonet to your rifle as an option at some point.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1013	Posted - 2014.04.11 01:20:00 - [3] - Quote but melee mods dont affect nova knife damage. I dont want melee to be the new alpha damage, but I would like it to be useful in some way. Pushing is not unheard of in FPS mechanics, so I thought it might fit here, especially with all the buildings we have. But as it is now, there is really no reason to fit the Myofibril Stimulant since it only gets you ~200 to 300 damage, where a Nova Knife will get you ~600. Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
Tonka Legacy Zincress Twilight Imperium 79	Posted - 2014.04.11 01:43:00 - [4] - Quote think I got 20 kills with melee in my dust career. Sentinel: I am heavy weapons guy... Commando: I got a RR and a CR, Im so good. Logi: In it 4 the points and points only.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1181	Posted - 2014.04.11 02:09:00 - [5] - Quote Who cares? My heavy uses the occasionally working Forge Gun and the HMG. Easy kills by comparison. Running around and punching Mercs in combat armor seems kinda pointless when compared to blowing them up (grenades), melting them (lasers), punching through shields (scramblers?) or armor (combat rifle). Or just vaporizing them with a Rail Gun Turret, installation or HAV. And so it goes.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 374	Posted - 2014.04.11 02:19:00 - [6] - Quote Melee shouldn't be an effective tool on a sci fi battlefield. Lasers and plasma weapons were developed for a reason. Also from a technical point of view 'pushing' players around will probably be difficult to implement without frustrating collision issues with terrain.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1013	Posted - 2014.04.11 02:34:00 - [7] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Melee shouldn't be an effective tool on a sci fi battlefield. Lasers and plasma weapons were developed for a reason. Also from a technical point of view 'pushing' players around will probably be difficult to implement without frustrating collision issues with terrain. It shouldn't, except CCP saw fit to put in a skill for it and a module for it. A high slot module, that supposedly adds to build variety, except nobody in their right mind would use Myo Stims, even though they offer a RIDICULOUS 75% bonus. From a sci fi perspective, you are injecting yourself with a vial of blue liquid. If you inject the red liquid, you run faster. If you inject the green liquid, your heart pumps slower more calmly. What do the blue drugs do? You punch harder, but not as hard as a weapon. So why bother? In the future, these drugs should be pretty good right? Why couldn't you take a drug and punch a hole through 2 in of steel plating? I'm not even saying add damage to them. Make them push other players, as in "I pick up the 2 ton armored guy in front of me and toss him! RAAAAWWR!" Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 522	Posted - 2014.04.11 02:57:00 - [8] - Quote I've put some thought into this. Melee definitely needs an overhaul. Here are my ideas! -Buff aim assist for melee attacks. If an enemy is within range, and roughly near the center of your screen then it should be considered a hit. -For enemies within range there should be a slight 'lunge' when trying to melee to give a slight boost to melee range. -Change the way stamina affects melee. If you have stamina, spamming the melee button should start a melee combo of follow up attacks until you run out of stamina. Run out of stamina, and your ability to both lunge and combo your melee attacks will disappear. Basically functioning like it does now. - Change the melee style of suit types. Heavies should do massive damage, but have a large wind-up animation for their attacks. Scouts should have very fast but weak attacks, and medium suits obviously somewhere in the middle. Thoughts? Who cares what some sniper has to say
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1015	Posted - 2014.04.11 03:08:00 - [9] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I've put some thought into this. Melee definitely needs an overhaul. Here are my ideas! -Buff aim assist for melee attacks. If an enemy is within range, and roughly near the center of your screen then it should be considered a hit. -For enemies within range there should be a slight 'lunge' when trying to melee to give a slight boost to melee range. -Change the way stamina affects melee. If you have stamina, spamming the melee button should start a melee combo of follow up attacks until you run out of stamina. Run out of stamina, and your ability to both lunge and combo your melee attacks will disappear. Basically functioning like it does now. - Change the melee style of suit types. Heavies should do massive damage, but have a large wind-up animation for their attacks. Scouts should have very fast but weak attacks, and medium suits obviously somewhere in the middle. Thoughts? All good, and you dont even need to add a new mechanic! Tweak around the RoF of Melee, per suit a little, and increase the "range" Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 643	Posted - 2014.04.11 07:14:00 - [10] - Quote Commando ck.0 3 Complex myrofibils 600+ melee damage and the ability to fit a cloak with good skills Must I say more? Mmmm Scout ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1392	Posted - 2014.04.11 07:21:00 - [11] - Quote Melee is fine where it is, a last ditch (I'm out of ammo but this guy still isn't dead) effort to survive by killing. Any changes to buff will only hurt the game. Fun > Realism
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2163	Posted - 2014.04.11 07:31:00 - [12] - Quote Maybe if the melee attacks were to stagger an opponent based on how much damage is dealt, and myofybril stimulants would also add more "poise break" damage allowing you to stunlock enemies. It'd be great to be able to beat a shotgun scout to death simply because his light frame is easily pushed around. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Retarn Dominus H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Lokun Listamenn 49	Posted - 2014.04.11 09:58:00 - [13] - Quote I beat someone to death with my scanner once. Interesting. I didn't realise that the myofybril module wouldn't work for knives. What? You think your Complex armour plating on your sweet Proto will save you? Think again BOOM
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1018	Posted - 2014.04.11 11:32:00 - [14] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Commando ck.0 3 Complex myrofibils 600+ melee damage and the ability to fit a cloak with good skills Must I say more? Then why doesn't anyone do it? Maybe because that would leave a Commando ck.0 with 67 CPU and 19 PG to fit? And he still sprints about as fast as an Assault suit can walk with less stamina. It's why Commandos don't run up to people with Nova Knifes (which still does comparable damage). The whole point of this thread is to help the Myofibril Stimulant not be a waste of slot space. But since melee is so crummy, compared both to long range and short range weapons, why would anyone bother? It might as well not be in the game, but that makes high slots even less diverse than low slots. There are 8 types of high slot mods. Except 3 of them are the different Damage Mods (which also just got a huge nerf). 3 of them affect your shields, 1 is for EWAR, and 1 is a useless biotics mod. There are 12 types of low slot mods, much more diverse. 3 armor plates and 1 armor rep, 2 EWAR mods, 2 biotics mods (both super useful btw), both the CPU and PG upgrade, the hacking mod, and a shield mod (there are no high slot armor mods). Melee is in the game, it does have a module. Why not make it useful such that people actually think to themselves "should I fit a shield extender or a stimulant...hmmmm tough choices..."? Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.
Lightning Bolt2 Binary Mercs 418	Posted - 2014.04.11 17:39:00 - [15] - Quote I'm using a ONLY MELEE scout suit very effectively, its fitting is: ADV min scout 2x kinkats(any work, depends on what cost you want) 3x myfrowattie(enhanced or greater) 1xSTD Nova knife, to make the fitting valid. OPTIONAL: REs, for tanks. dampeners, for scanners. gun, for fake melee guys. I've been knifing from crome to about a week ago since I got bored of ish knifing people, so this happens. I'm seeing cloaked scouts everywhere... they're not invis.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 454	Posted - 2014.04.11 17:55:00 - [16] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Commando ck.0 3 Complex myrofibils 600+ melee damage and the ability to fit a cloak with good skills Must I say more? Best troll fit ever? Don't take away the Commando Falcon Punch CCP!!! If you win the rat race, you're still a rat.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 230	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:56:00 - [17] - Quote Also we need a finishing move if we Melee someone and are doomed to be killed, like sticking our fingers down a Gallente's eyes, or twisting the neck of a Minmatar. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 646	Posted - 2014.04.11 20:11:00 - [18] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Then why doesn't anyone do it? Maybe because that would leave a Commando ck.0 with 67 CPU and 19 PG to fit? And he still sprints about as fast as an Assault suit can walk with less stamina. It's why Commandos don't run up to people with Nova Knifes (which still does comparable damage). The whole point of this thread is to help the Myofibril Stimulant not be a waste of slot space. But since melee is so crummy, compared both to long range and short range weapons, why would anyone bother? It might as well not be in the game, but that makes high slots even less diverse than low slots. There are 8 types of high slot mods. Except 3 of them are the different Damage Mods (which also just got a huge nerf). 3 of them affect your shields, 1 is for EWAR, and 1 is a useless biotics mod. There are 12 types of low slot mods, much more diverse. 3 armor plates and 1 armor rep, 2 EWAR mods, 2 biotics mods (both super useful btw), both the CPU and PG upgrade, the hacking mod, and a shield mod (there are no high slot armor mods). Melee is in the game, it does have a module. Why not make it useful such that people actually think to themselves "should I fit a shield extender or a stimulant...hmmmm tough choices..."? I understand your thought however I will say that the only reason people wouldn't do that is that it's 3.5 million SP to do one thing really well. Melee is viable, look at players like Dengru who can run around in a Minmatar logi one hitting people with their melee but it takes way more dedication than any other playstyle. Mmmm Scout ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1019	Posted - 2014.04.11 20:59:00 - [19] - Quote I would argue that even at full dedication, the payoff is underwhelming. A weapon would be less investment for my payout. But weapons are supposed to do damage. Use weapons to do damage. I don't want to see a bunch of people running around Superman punching holes in chests. I just want to see a reason for the Stimulant to stand on its own. Even on paper it's crummy looking. In practice, it's hard to think you could stand against brick fits, ewar stack fits, or even speed tanked fits. Especially if you have to give up 2 or more high slots in exchange for what 1 sidearm will do by itself. Ugarte: You are a very cynical person, Rick, if you'll forgive me for saying so. Rick: I forgive you.


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