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Drapedup Drippedout wrote:

Maximos Forcus wrote:

Really new is relative, I'm sure. And I disagree with you. It is a lot about ISK. ISK allows you to get proto equipment. It allows you to play the game. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people asking for donations, or there wouldn't be lotteries and other ISK scheme related activities,meta or otherwise. Sure, SP is important too, but not the only relevant thing by far. Rejecting an asset wipe means that you expect the market to only be available for officer's stuff, right? Or do you think that once a wipe would be announced, people wouldn't buy certain suits and weapons, hold on to them until after the reset, and sell them at maybe a 10% loss? Your reset means feck all without an asset reset.

As to your other statements: the roadmap discussions are all about the EVE-DUST connection. Trying to show a deep understanding of this game and not know this seems unlikely, and if it is, you overassessed yourself. Either way, you come up short there. And if there is an issue with ISK gains because of game abuse, address it directly. See also my other post earlier (in response to anaboop).

So much stupid, where to start....ISK does not allow you to get proto gear, SP allows you to get proto gear. ISK allows you to purchase proto gear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but starter fits "allow you to play the game" and cost no ISK.

I do not expect the market to be limited to officer gear? Where did that come from? If people were smart, when an ISK wipe is announced, yes they will stockpile VAST reserves of gear. I'm ok with that, in order to get ISK back, they would still have to sell that gear. If you are familiar with economics, then a simple supply v demand explains that theory. In order to liquidate assets they would have to undercut every other seller on the market. To curb the amount of proto gear you can purchase in bulk, it wouldn't be too hard for CCP to implement a hard cap of all assets at no more than 500 of one item in any given player's inventory.
An ISK wipe without an asset wipe is not a "Feck all without an asset reset", simply if you have been here and stockpiled quafe suits/officer weapons/etc...you deserve the opportunity to sell them. You cannot obtain salvage from ill gotten means, if you've been around longer you will have more. They wiped assets for uprising, so it's not like people are stockpiling from day 1 of closed beta.
You talk of a road-map like CCP has a pristine track record of delivering ANYTHING they have had on the "road-map" for almost 2 years.
As to your, "Trying to show a deep understanding of this game and not know this seems unlikely"...please, open mouth, insert foot. You preach at us like you are aware of the COUNTLESS threads that have been made in regards to the PC DISTRICT LOCKING (AKA Ill gotten ISK gains). And in true CCP fashion, they have remained silent on the issue, putting a band aid on the district locking. With the release of PC 2.0 SoonTM, I fully expect them to issue a statement whether anything will be done about the prior district locking, and the current (speculative) blue donut and Kane somehow abusing his CPM position.
Because of the silence of CCP on this issue, it SEEMS they have brushed it under the rug, but without a statement one way or the other, there still seems to be the possibility to rectify the situation. I.E. Ask for an ISK wipe.

Knowledge is power.
Edit: You've played dust for 3 mos, so I don't expect you to know most of this. And judging by your number of likes do not frequent the forums. http://dustboard.com/global/merc/Maximos_Forcus


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 8	Posted - 2014.04.10 08:05:00 - [1] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: when the market is added you know you all will have to isk wipe everybody and all corps to make a even start right loo Why? What does an "even start" mean in this context, anyway? Because you would have to remove all assets as well, to actually achieve that. ISK or assets are the same thing, financially speaking (at least, once there's a market).
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 8	Posted - 2014.04.10 09:01:00 - [2] - Quote anaboop wrote: As hated as this idea will be isk wipe before player market Otherwise only a number of rich players will grab everything and noone else will have a chance. Only rich people are going to dislike that too. Assets and ISK are interchangeable, once there is an open market. Will you require an asset wipe as well? How about a complete reset? Wipe everything! Skills, assets, and ISK. Your concern is only relevant in the initial stages of the market. And "rich people getting everything" means their wealth becomes more distributed. Assets will continue to be generated, and the market will stabilize. If it won't, then even an ISK wipe won't. So, please expand on the motivation for this request, preferably using some real principles of economics. Because from where I am standing (a poor merc in New Eden, but with a IRL degree in economics) this doesn't make sense.
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 8	Posted - 2014.04.10 09:04:00 - [3] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: Maximos Forcus wrote: VALCORE72 wrote: when the market is added you know you all will have to isk wipe everybody and all corps to make a even start right loo Why? What does an "even start" mean in this context, anyway? Because you would have to remove all assets as well, to actually achieve that. ISK or assets are the same thing, financially speaking (at least, once there's a market). land lock for one . pc was a mess for months . Not been around for long enough to know what this means. Could you explain the situation in more detail, or link to a post that does?
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 8	Posted - 2014.04.10 09:07:00 - [4] - Quote Rhydra L Wong wrote: I'll expand .... THIS IS A FANTASY UNIVERSE AND A VIDEO GAME and your remark about rich people grabbing up everything actually spreads recources is ridiculous. Fight your class war somewhere else please. Idiot, **** off. Do you even know what "class war" means?
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 10	Posted - 2014.04.10 09:51:00 - [5] - Quote Asking for an ISK and asset reset is the same as asking for a complete restart of the game, as they are the principal element of the game-environment, the "EVE-DUST universe". Not wiping it will not make the rich richer, nor the poor poorer. It will actually allow the poor to make some ISK out of weapons that will not significantly help them make more ISK or be more than marginally better on the battlefield. This is effectively the same discussion as PRO vs. STD/MLT. Not fun maybe, but part of the game. If the market domination is beneficial to the "rich few", which is what I gather fro your responses, then a reset will not help "the poor" at all. Corporations will hold districts, making money faster than any corp only running battles. Lone mercs will suffer even more. In the end, it is about the ability to make ISK. So you would need a full reset of everything. Then, once DUST gets connected to EVE, allowing for player-exchange, do you reset EVE? You think that makes sense?
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 11	Posted - 2014.04.10 11:32:00 - [6] - Quote anaboop wrote: Maximos Forcus wrote: Asking for an ISK and asset reset is the same as asking for a complete restart of the game, as they are the principal element of the game-environment, the "EVE-DUST universe". Not wiping it will not make the rich richer, nor the poor poorer. It will actually allow the poor to make some ISK out of weapons that will not significantly help them make more ISK or be more than marginally better on the battlefield. This is effectively the same discussion as PRO vs. STD/MLT. Not fun maybe, but part of the game. If the market domination is beneficial to the "rich few", which is what I gather fro your responses, then a reset will not help "the poor" at all. Corporations will hold districts, making money faster than any corp only running battles. Lone mercs will suffer even more. In the end, it is about the ability to make ISK. So you would need a full reset of everything. Then, once DUST gets connected to EVE, allowing for player-exchange, do you reset EVE? You think that makes sense? We never asked for asset reset you suggested it in an attempt to deter us which didnt work so now your just grasping at straws. If you want to spread the wealth, then take everyones isk pool it together and spread it out evenly to each ip address or whatever. I am not sure what you think my agenda is, but I did not try and deter anyone. I inferred that suggesting an ISK reset must also include an asset reset. To which you agreed. I also inferred that resetting that, will still leave a situation that has others in better, more advantageous, positions than others. So if the actual idea is to create a level playing field, you will need to go even further. And that will ultimately lead to a situation that is going to have to impact EVE, which is never going to happen. Now, if I understand Valcore correctly, the actual issue is that an open market would allow corporations (and members) that benefitted from game abuse to actually really start benefiting from it on a large scale. That sounds like a bad thing to me, too. The approach is what I have an issue with, I think your treatment to the ailment is wrong. If there are corporations that benefited from game abuse, they need to be held accountable. If CCP thinks that wasn't abuse, a reset shouldn't be executed either, as it fixes something CCP think isn't broken. So maybe you should put your alliance energy into getting that addressed directly, and not through these cloak-and-daggery ideas that actually harm honest players. Oh, and Valcore, sharing information helps people understand the issue. So for sure what you say can and will change the way I think about (certain) things.
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 11	Posted - 2014.04.10 11:47:00 - [7] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: You must be really new here. This princely element you refer to is SP as far as dust goes, not ISK. An ISK wipe is absolutely necessary due to exploits ongoing for the past 5 months. Asset wipe? Again? No. If you've been here for a while then you've earned a lot, and should keep them. Everyone has the same chance to earn assets, they are a reward for playing a match as intended whether it be PC or pub. The ill gotten ISK gains are what warrant an ISK wipe. Judging from your response you really have no knowledge of new Eden history nor grasp the lack of connection between dust and eve. If there was no ISK wipe, when officer gear or BPO's hit the market, who do you think will monopolize those assets? Please stop condemning solid ideas with ignorance. Really new is relative, I'm sure. And I disagree with you. It is a lot about ISK. ISK allows you to get proto equipment. It allows you to play the game. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people asking for donations, or there wouldn't be lotteries and other ISK scheme related activities,meta or otherwise. Sure, SP is important too, but not the only relevant thing by far. Rejecting an asset wipe means that you expect the market to only be available for officer's stuff, right? Or do you think that once a wipe would be announced, people wouldn't buy certain suits and weapons, hold on to them until after the reset, and sell them at maybe a 10% loss? Your reset means feck all without an asset reset. As to your other statements: the roadmap discussions are all about the EVE-DUST connection. Trying to show a deep understanding of this game and not know this seems unlikely, and if it is, you overassessed yourself. Either way, you come up short there. And if there is an issue with ISK gains because of game abuse, address it directly. See also my other post earlier (in response to anaboop).
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 15	Posted - 2014.04.10 14:33:00 - [8] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: Maximos Forcus wrote: Really new is relative, I'm sure. And I disagree with you. It is a lot about ISK. ISK allows you to get proto equipment. It allows you to play the game. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many people asking for donations, or there wouldn't be lotteries and other ISK scheme related activities,meta or otherwise. Sure, SP is important too, but not the only relevant thing by far. Rejecting an asset wipe means that you expect the market to only be available for officer's stuff, right? Or do you think that once a wipe would be announced, people wouldn't buy certain suits and weapons, hold on to them until after the reset, and sell them at maybe a 10% loss? Your reset means feck all without an asset reset. As to your other statements: the roadmap discussions are all about the EVE-DUST connection. Trying to show a deep understanding of this game and not know this seems unlikely, and if it is, you overassessed yourself. Either way, you come up short there. And if there is an issue with ISK gains because of game abuse, address it directly. See also my other post earlier (in response to anaboop). So much stupid, where to start....ISK does not allow you to get proto gear, SP allows you to get proto gear. ISK allows you to purchase proto gear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but starter fits "allow you to play the game" and cost no ISK. I do not expect the market to be limited to officer gear? Where did that come from? If people were smart, when an ISK wipe is announced, yes they will stockpile VAST reserves of gear. I'm ok with that, in order to get ISK back, they would still have to sell that gear. If you are familiar with economics, then a simple supply v demand explains that theory. In order to liquidate assets they would have to undercut every other seller on the market. To curb the amount of proto gear you can purchase in bulk, it wouldn't be too hard for CCP to implement a hard cap of all assets at no more than 500 of one item in any given player's inventory. An ISK wipe without an asset wipe is not a "Feck all without an asset reset", simply if you have been here and stockpiled quafe suits/officer weapons/etc...you deserve the opportunity to sell them. You cannot obtain salvage from ill gotten means, if you've been around longer you will have more. They wiped assets for uprising, so it's not like people are stockpiling from day 1 of closed beta. You talk of a road-map like CCP has a pristine track record of delivering ANYTHING they have had on the "road-map" for almost 2 years. As to your, "Trying to show a deep understanding of this game and not know this seems unlikely"...please, open mouth, insert foot. You preach at us like you are aware of the COUNTLESS threads that have been made in regards to the PC DISTRICT LOCKING (AKA Ill gotten ISK gains). And in true CCP fashion, they have remained silent on the issue, putting a band aid on the district locking. With the release of PC 2.0 SoonTM, I fully expect them to issue a statement whether anything will be done about the prior district locking, and the current (speculative) blue donut and Kane somehow abusing his CPM position. Because of the silence of CCP on this issue, it SEEMS they have brushed it under the rug, but without a statement one way or the other, there still seems to be the possibility to rectify the situation. I.E. Ask for an ISK wipe. Knowledge is power. Edit: You've played dust for 3 mos, so I don't expect you to know most of this. And judging by your number of likes do not frequent the forums. http://dustboard.com/global/merc/Maximos_Forcus You are the funny one, right? Calling my response stupid, yet being very inconsistent in yours. 1. SP allows you to equip proto gear, ISK allows you to purchase it. Purchasing is "getting". So, ISK allows you to get proto gear. If you have 40M SP but no ISK, you're not able to get any proto gear. Hope that clears it up for you. 2. "Playing the game" is not "playing a game of Dust". Creating fits, and finding the right combination of things is a large part or the game, strongly related to the SP component. This requires ISK. Running starter fits will allow you to play a game, not the game. 3. Selling on an open market does not require anyone to undercut prices. It is a supply and demand process. Every match people lose gear, and need to replenish. If they can at a minor discount to the current NPC market they will. No need to take a hugh loss at all. Additionally, you are now also proposing a cap on inventory. Further limitations to prevent people benefiiting from a situation that wasn't addressed where it should have been, if CCP considers it a fault to begin with. And others would suffer because of it. 4. I talk of a roadmap as a roadmap, a list of things that are intended to be included, at some point. Based on a certain concept of what the game is, and where it should sit in the greater scheme of things. Pretending it doesn't exist, or isn't/won't be executed against at all is a convenient dismissal of a serious issue to consider. 5. I am aware of PC district locking, providing corps with an abundance of ISK with limited to no risk and at no cost. And I will repeat my question here, for you, to make it easier for you: does CCP consider this abuse? If not, asking for an ISK wipe is unwarrented. If so, it needs to be addressed in the context of PC district abuse. If it were abuse, it already impacted the game for months, allowing certain corps to have their people run proto in pub matches. Nothing new there... 6. My time on these forums, in the game or anywhere else for that matter is irrelevant. Asking for a wipe because of perceived abuse somewhere at some point in the game's history is completely misaligned. It will make everyone suffer more than the perceived community gain from certain corps and players getting to outbid everyone for a while.
Maximos Forcus G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 16	Posted - 2014.04.10 15:02:00 - [9] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: max they did say isp gained through district locking was never intended . Thanks Val, didn't know that. Do you know if they only consider it "unintended" or abusive? I know they changed it, or are going to soon.