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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1395
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:This. This is why the Academy needs to be overhauled. And by "overhauled" I mean actually making it feel like an academy. Make it feel like a dedicated boot camp that allows players a chance to experiment with various fits and play styles along with a dedicated test range to test out various weapons and vehicles. That's the overhaul I'm talking about here.
Then, after acquiring approximately 1-2 million SP, the new player graduates and gets a chance to go into the shark-infested waters. Otherwise, you just get what the OP just suffered.
I agree, but I think the 2nd tier academy should be optional with a cap more like 3-5 mill sp. The cap should be high enough that you can field a decent fit when you graduate, but low enough so those close to hitting it aren't stomping the newest players in the pool. having a higher cap also creates a larger pool of players so the matchmaker can field full teams and keep the wait times reasonable.
The first tier academy should be very short so people have a bubble to play against other players learning the controls, and figure out the very basics of the game for the first few matches. Ideally this would be replaced by a real gameplay tutorial with a story and some scripted action to set the stage for the game and introduce the fundamental gameplay concepts.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1397
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Posted - 2014.04.10 19:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Villanor Aquarius wrote:Having been here since forever, here's my advice: (It's different than most)
First:
Get shield and armor upgrades to 3 each before anything else.
This gives you 15% more shield and armor base and is quick.
Second:
Get operation to 3 in whatever gun you like
Third:
Get lvl 1 in whatever suit you want, I recommend an actual suit such as assault, logi, sentinel, commando as these are cheaper than their base counterparts.
Fourth:
Get basic level of your tanking modules (shield and armor plates/extenders and reppers)
Fifth:
Get shield and armour upgrades to 4 each
Get shield extender/armor plates to 3 for adv level modules
Lastly:
Get electronics and engineering up as needed to allow you to fit basic/militia suits with basic weapons.
If you skill that way and run with a squad of a couple people you enjoy playing with the game will be much more enjoyable. This is also probably the most benefit you can get from early sp. Don't bother with level 5 of most any skill for quite some time, in your first couple months you'll be better served by getting things to lvl 3 as you'll get 60% of the bonus for only a small fraction of the cost.
Run basic suits with basic stuff on them and focus on the passive skills like armor and shield upgrades, weapon operation etc.
Once you have a basic suit with basic mods and adv hp mods for your tanking type, try to get basic level of more of the things you use like equipment or sidearms etc. You'll gain a lot in the way of playstyle choices with little investment and from there you can gradually bulk up where needed. If you really like your weapon you can further invest in passive benefits to it such as prof. ammo or reload. If you feel like you die when you just barely poke out of cover then prioritize hp mods and skills. If you want to be utility and move about the battlefield helping out, go for movement modules in dropsuit upgrades and get hacking mods/skill.
Balance sp investment vs. reward and remind yourself that the benefit of better weapons compared to their cost really isn't worth it until you have the passive skills and fitting to extend your alive time.
Lastly, rule of thumb, use a weapon one tier below your suit type. This helps with going isk positive immensely.
Listen to this guy. He is spot on with how to invest SP.
A few things to add: uplinks can be a great source of WPs, so even throwing down 1 or 2 cheap ones could help a lot. You're paid out based on your rank at the end (the formula is complicated, and based partially on the total ISK value lost by the enemy team. Getting a handful of extra WPs every match from a basic and militia uplink can pay off a decedent amount over the long term.
This is a long-term game. You acquire SP everyday even when you're not playing, so never feel bad about taking a break for a month or three and coming back to spend that SP, especially if you're frustrated/burnt out.
Don't feel like you should use your best stuff very often. You should focus on building up an ISK reserve. Run cheap fits when you're learning. Your KD is a meaningless number, your wallet is the one that matters. Running cheap fits builds good habits about trying to stay alive, and choosing your engagements wisely. Some fights can't be won, even if you see the other guy first. Wait for him to be engaged with one of your teammates before jumping in to surprise/double-team him.
Use the squad finder. It is an invaluable tool for finding squads when your corpmates are offline. Don't run solo, always use teamwork.
Playing with vehicles is an expensive direction. They're powerful and fun, but expect to be broke. I have over 70m ISK banked up and I don't feel like I can really afford to run vehicles. I would discourage putting SP into infantry skills and vehicle skills simultaneously on the same character until you have a very solid infantry character made that you can run regularly and go ISK positive for the match. It may be better to make a dedicated tanker and/or pilot alt(s).
Make a throwaway alt, since you get 500,000 SP for each new character. For example, let's say you want to try out the plasma cannon (it's pretty bad and you'll probably hate it). Make a new character, put all skills into the plasma cannon. Run some matches with it to check it out. After you decide you like it (or more realistically, hate it), biomass the character and repeat for a different weapon or suit after the biomass countdown runs out. You can save a lot of wasted SP on your main character this way.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1398
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Posted - 2014.04.10 22:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:We came up with an idea while discussing this topic earlier.
the battles take place over various systems of various security status. so how about selecting which security space you want to fight in which determines what equipment can be used and how much reward you get?
1.0-0.5 MLT/STD gear. LAV only -10% isk payout
0.4-0.1 MLT/STD/ADV gear. 2 vehicles each side same payout as now
0.0 anything goes 4 vehicles per side. +20% isk payout
that way its lore firendly (DED controlled combat regulations prohibit use of experimental equipment in empire controlled space) and when we get new players in we can gradually build them up. those of us with high skills will still have an advantage over new players but limiting HAV spam and full stomps of higher tier suits would ease the pain up a bit. sure my covenant assault will have 20% more hp but a noob will at least kill me with thier militia/recruit rifle if they catch me off guard whereas in proto i can turn around. pick which testicle i want to take of and then shoot
There are several problems with this. The SP, experience, practice and knowledge of the maps, are much bigger differences than the gear. Vets wanting to pad their KD will still stomp new players in "highsec" matches with STD gear. The payout differential is minimal, and if you decrease it enough to disencentivise vets from playing these, you'll be crippling new players from building enough ISK to buy skills and try new things. If you "fracture" the limited playerbase into these gear-based tiers, and again by the 3 existing game modes, the matchmaker will have an even worse time getting balanced matches quickly. It would also decrease the liklihood that CCP could add additional modes in the future, because it would make the matchmaking problem exponentially worse with each new mode.
The better solution (as I stated earlier in the thread) is creating 1 new mode that is only available to players under some SP cap. New players can still join regular pub matches, FW, and even PC (not likely, but still technically possible), but they have a "kiddie pool" option to play against each other, learn the maps, develop tactics, earn enough SP to build a solid fit, etc.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1398
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Posted - 2014.04.11 03:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:Aika Nakata wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:(Deleted for space) There are several problems with this. The SP, experience, practice and knowledge of the maps, are much bigger differences than the gear. Vets wanting to pad their KD will still stomp new players in "highsec" matches with STD gear. The payout differential is minimal, and if you decrease it enough to disencentivise vets from playing these, you'll be crippling new players from building enough ISK to buy skills and try new things. If you "fracture" the limited playerbase into these gear-based tiers, and again by the 3 existing game modes, the matchmaker will have an even worse time getting balanced matches quickly. It would also decrease the liklihood that CCP could add additional modes in the future, because it would make the matchmaking problem exponentially worse with each new mode. The better solution (as I stated earlier in the thread) is creating 1 new mode that is only available to players under some SP cap. New players can still join regular pub matches, FW, and even PC (not likely, but still technically possible), but they have a "kiddie pool" option to play against each other, learn the maps, develop tactics, earn enough SP to build a solid fit, etc. To be fair mate, im brand new and generally wipe the floor with people in similar gear. Its the gear that seems to make the difference in my matches. Then again I come from playing the older classic rainbow six games. Like Athena sword, and rogue spear. So my gun game has to be up to snuff as well as positioning and situational awareness. So it could just be experience on my end but most battles involving the same tier gear I come out on top. Win some and lose some but yeah. I think the idea has some merit. Just needs to be done correctly. to be fair yeah having it broken down into these types just helps even the equipment playign field. sure vets know the maps but as i said. its to have vets run with noobs out of the academy. i've been runnign with 5 recruits recently. they all have around 1-1.5m sp. when we're against people in similar suits to ourselves we can still hold our own. real world experience at FPS gaming accounts for far more than 45m sp. yeah my exile AR will do more damage than his, my suit will have a few more HP but if someone is better at flanking than i am then they can take me, whereas if am sat in my stacked out proto gallente logi he can flank me, shoot me, i turn around giggiling that his militia rifle tickles and then blast him in the face with my duvolle and wait for my complex repper to heal me back up in the time the next one comes along. i'm not saying vets will try and abuse it but at least in 0.5-1.0 it wont be constant proto and vehicle stomps. it will level the playign field some. look at game sliek BF4 and COD you can jump into them with guys who been playign months but all your guns are similar and you can stand a chance. proto doesnt make you a better player. actual experience does and having coupel of vets with a squad of noobs or even a squad of random noobs together they would stand more chance against a squad of nyains in STD gear than they would in STD vs nyains in proto gear
I think we both have the same intentions: giving new players a safer haven (not completely safe) where they can gain a foothold in the game, experience success/positive reinforcement and will become invested enough in DUST to want to stick around for the long haul (despite its rough edges).
Under my proposal, you wouldn't have a squad of Nyains wearing anything in the academy because they have too many SP to be eligible, so that whole issue goes away completely. If your concern with using the SP cap instead of gear-based tiers is vets not being able to mentor new players, then all you would have to do is use a throwaway alt character. Biomass her when she hits the cap for academy matches. Don't use boosters, and turn off passive SP and you should get decent mileage out of each "mentor alt" before having to convert it to Soylent Green. You'll still have the ISK you earn, and you get to experience a variety of playstyles. I don't see much of a problem.
Also you never addressed the concern about fracturing the concurrent player pool and the resulting matchmaker issues that would result from it. If we had 3 tiers of gear, with 3 types of matches, that's splitting the playerbase into 9 pools for the matchmaker, further split that into regions, and you start to wait for a very long time to get your match, and when you do, it will always be the same people (much worse than it already is).
If you look at it objectively, using an SP capped mode for new players is much simpler, and achieves the same goals, while avoiding most of the problems. Yes, making/biomassing mentor alts will be annoying, but it's a much easier and more manageable downside than those that result from your proposal.
Also, the playing field shouldn't be even. DUST isn't about fair fights (it should have balanced fights though--there's a difference).
Best PvE idea ever!
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