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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1211
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
we need the remaining pieces of logi equipment to become active rather than deployable.
scanner, active
rep tool, active , tells you who needs healing
so why can't we make hives and uplinks active
players brings out a nanohive, it shows an ammo bar for all players in range showing if they need ammo. if they do you turn on the hive and fill them up. when they are filled you move on taking your hive with you.
the same would go for uplinks. someone needs a spawn in, you turn on your uplink and they spawn in on you. no more spawn killing, no uplinks in places they can't be killed. brings a new role to scouts sneaking into enemy bases and letting players spawn in on them without the enemy knowing.
there is reason then to make them never deplete like repair tools and scanners. this in turn would bring down logi fit costs and remove every piece of spam in the game
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1212
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Interesting, but I don't want to become a mobile CRU that lacks the speed, HP, and hardeners that vehicles have.
I have enough problems with those pesky snipers already. Literally everyone will be hunting you!
how is that any different than a sniper killing you before you deploy any equipment,
with the removal of spam there would be no reason that i can see for uplinks or ammo to even show on scan anymore. also as you now only need ever carry 1 uplink or hive your suits fitting costs will be at a level equivalent to that of other roles
currently we have a situation where if you use deployable equipment once it's deployed you are no longer a logi. that is unless you carry an active piece of equipment aswell but why carry an active piece of equipment on a suit with most of its ability already deployed and costing insane amounts of isk. you dont. you instead switch out to a cheap suit. but why should you have to do that.
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1214
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:A few potential issues.
The person with a hive would never run out of ammo. That being the case, only sentinels and scouts would be without one. Do you really want grenade spam to pop up again? The only reason contact grenades aren't used is because you only get one.
A commando sniper would never die as if he takes any dmg he would just activate his compact hive, rep up, then back to his rifle.
The reptool would only be used to rep vehicles and instillations simply because to players with triage hives can rep more players at once and still remain effective.
Scouts place uplinks in tactical areas then move on, we can't stand being surrounded by other allies as they give away our position. If a scout goes RE+Hive he would have no need for actual weapons!
Equipment is made deployable to limit it's usefulness. Supply depots are primarily meant to allow you to re-up your deployables.
If we go with your idea, are you willing to deal with these issues that will come with it?
does a rep tool heal the user... no so then there is a president not to let hives repair or supply the user. we have snipers sitting in the redline with ammo and uplink spam for themselves. how is making them actively use their equipment instead of spamming it not better. besides they wouldn't be able to do it if they couldn't supply themselves. they would have to work with the team to ensure they can get supplies.
as for it never running out, why can't it need a charge up similar to the cloak. you turn it on and it pulses out delivering ammo.you use it and it depletes over time. turning it off recharges the device. using it for too long and it will deplete and need a 50% charge to reactivate
grenade spam is already an issue. having 1 person stop killing to bring out a hive or having 10 people throwing down hives throwing hundreds of grenades and killing at the same time. i know which i prefer.
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1214
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Posted - 2014.04.09 22:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Interesting, but I don't want to become a mobile CRU that lacks the speed, HP, and hardeners that vehicles have.
I have enough problems with those pesky snipers already. Literally everyone will be hunting you! how is that any different than a sniper killing you before you deploy any equipment, with the removal of spam there would be no reason that i can see for uplinks or ammo to even show on scan anymore. also as you now only need ever carry 1 uplink or hive your suits fitting costs will be at a level equivalent to that of other roles currently we have a situation where if you use deployable equipment once it's deployed you are no longer a logi. that is unless you carry an active piece of equipment aswell but why carry an active piece of equipment on a suit with most of its ability already deployed and costing insane amounts of isk. you dont. you instead switch out to a cheap suit. but why should you have to do that. The difference is that I suddenly go from being a priority target (everyone shoots the logi first for obvious reasons) to being the number one target.
and how is that?
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1217
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Posted - 2014.04.10 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
deepfried salad gilliam wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:we need the remaining pieces of logi equipment to become active rather than deployable.
scanner, active
rep tool, active , tells you who needs healing
so why can't we make hives and uplinks active
players brings out a nanohive, it shows an ammo bar for all players in range showing if they need ammo. if they do you turn on the hive and fill them up. when they are filled you move on taking your hive with you.
the same would go for uplinks. someone needs a spawn in, you turn on your uplink and they spawn in on you. no more spawn killing, no uplinks in places they can't be killed. brings a new role to scouts sneaking into enemy bases and letting players spawn in on them without the enemy knowing.
there is reason then to make them never deplete like repair tools and scanners. this in turn would bring down logi fit costs and remove every piece of spam in the game and no more people using triage hives as their own little quick heal lol and i think for uplinks you should be able to activate it it stays for like 3 minutes with a 45 second cool down
thats an option...
all those saying "its going to do this or that so wont work" its all irrelevant at this stage. anything can be adjusted to fit in.
the point is we need a reason for logis to carry this stuff. at the same time we need a reason for players to protect these players using logi equipment. and we need a way to reduce the cost of equipment to make being a logi cost effective. at the same time we need to reduce spam and prevent self supplying.
at the moment its far cheaper to spam and get the same results in wp for sometimes hundreds of thousands of isk less and many deaths less by using other suits to deploy all your equipment. now that to me is a massively broken mechanic.
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1219
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Posted - 2014.04.10 18:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
just some of the issues I believe we have regarding equipment
1) expensive when you carry 3-4
2)equipment spam taking away the job off logi's
3)equipment deployed in an area just for the battle to move on making the cal logi for instance pointless once he deploys all his stuff
4)redline/tower sniping with their own supplies and out of reach of other friendly logis to supply them
5) camping - cal logi can drop i believe about 300hps of hives over a large area or how do you clean out a hard to reach area when an amarr logi has gone to work spamming it. not to mention the squad members dropping the equipment also
6) WP farming - dropping hives at a resupply just for wp farming purposes.
7) uplinks inside walls or hard to reach places. dont know how they do it but it happens
8) allows people to solo - why roam with a logi when you can carry a triage hive repairing and supplying yourself
and there are probably more i can't think off.
if the deployable equipment was active all these issues would disappear
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1219
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Posted - 2014.04.10 20:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
enemy squad caps objective - 2 scenarios
1)they just capped the objective, each squad member drops his own K17-D hive repairing and supplying their own ammo while the logi's hives which he deployed for you go unused. everyone else not with uplinks starts to throw down uplinks into every crevice some even getting stuck inside walls. the enemy turns up. the logi with all his equipment now deployed turns to his weapon and joins in with all the other self repairing mercs sitting on their own hives. the enemy pushes hard but every time they kill one guy he just respawn's over and over again on the objective where he starts throwing down fresh equipment. the enemy calls in an orbital strike which wipes out everyone and a few of the uplinks but not enough of them as the team respawns endlessly on the remaining uplinks. no need for retreat
2) they have just capped the objective. squad takes up defensive positions. the logi brings out his slow depleting long duration ammo hive and turns it on running around to each friendly stocking them back up. the enemy arrives so he turns to a repair tool repairing incoming damage. the nearby heavy starts to cry out for ammo so he switches to his high speed short duration ammo hive quickly stocking the heavy up then returning to repair. the enemy is too strong so the squad decide to pull out. the logi simply switches to weapon and takes all his equipment with him to the fallback position. someone dies on the retreat, luckily the cloaked scout that got them into the objective in the first place is nearby and waiting safe to light up the uplink to bring you back into the game
at the moment we have players with no concept of ammo conservation or picking the right fights or working as a team right down to who carries ammo and repairs etc. having a good squad composition and not just bringing heavies and sentinals and spamming equipment to take a logis place is just game breaking for logis
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1224
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
ok then how about this as a compromise.
active equipment as i stated but with 2 distinct types.
Version 1 = like i stated for team use but doesn't in anyway benefit the user besides wp earned. this would have a large field of use and never run out except for the drain/charge mechanic
Version 2 = solo versions. these would be limited charges and would run out after so many uses. these would be only of use to the user such as:
a) solo uplink - 1B/2A/3P uses. user can deploy this uplink for the use of him/herself to get back into battle. it will deplete once it reaches maximum respawns by yourself. behaves like the current uplinks but would only be visible to you as a blue and the enemy
b) solo nanohive - used like the active version i stated. this will only fill the users ammo. to remain unseen by the enemy this is a low power device which will not show on radar. it will replenish the users ammo/hp by half of its logistics counterparts speed and rate. it will have 1B/2A/3P charges per device.
players who use these devices can recharge them from logistics nano hives that way it keeps the logistics busy when his own hive isn't really needed
this will allow solo to do so but at a diminished capacity while still preventing the majority of spam and keeps the logis role active
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1493
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Posted - 2014.04.19 03:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
bump
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1497
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Posted - 2014.04.19 10:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
lee corwood wrote:All issues that definitely need addressing, mostly talking about the EQ spam, but I'm not completely sold on this for a few reasons.
1. This means that while the logi gets to maintain their role, they are also dependent on another logi being with them as well to also resupply their ammo and get them back in game. Having more logis in this game is not a bad thing at all, however, for those that don't happen to have another logi in squad are SOL unless a person of a different role runs an uplink EQ to get them back in game, which kinda defeats the point of trying to make the logi a 'unique' role.
2. I actually think there are tactics in good uplink placement. There are many many many times I wouldn't want to spawn in a blueberry where I am. Proper uplink placement can turn the tide of a battle. Having that uplink tied to you can make this game so slow paced on far spread maps.
3. I have a hard enough time connecting with my blueberries as it is with this damn detection reticle on my rep tool. I really don't want to struggle with that on ammo as well.
4. I'm not convinced on this argument that a logi can't be a soldier. The community has defined a logi that practically should never get to defend themselves and angered at how well we can perform comparatively to an assault when we're BOTH medium frames. So what if a logi has good gun game. If someone today is just brick tanking it for slaying, they're missing out with the potential a commando could give you over a logi.
Yes, our suits are expensive, but its completely possible to profit. With a great squad who uses good teamwork, I'm often well taken care of. This is a social game so many solo logis are going to have a horrible time. To those struggling, definitely find yourself a squad.
That aside, I haven't seen a slayer logi in this build yet. I mean I"m sure some still exist but so far I'm seeing way more scouts with militia shotguns wiping the floor with people than slayer logis. Additionally, I've seen way more scouts carrying my EQ than ever. Instead of inventing new ways to try and screw with the logi class even more, let's just focus on the million other things that are currently legitimately broken with this build.
Dust needs out of the box thinking to fix all its issues. we cannot continue with BUFF/NERF'ing everything hoping its all going to work out. we have become complacent with our broken mechanics. we shouldn't be trying to balance these broken mechanics we should be removing and reworking them to work different. then we can change our tactics to compensate.
I will logi the s* out of you
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1544
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Posted - 2014.06.30 20:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
bump
All Hail Legion
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