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Give rifles back their old damage but reduced ROF

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2801	Posted - 2014.04.09 07:32:00 - [1] - Quote I don't understand why this wasn't the real TTK fix on rifles but apparently was for scrambler pistols. The biggest gripe about rifles was that they are all long range weapons (yes, even the plasma rifle has an optimum of over 50m) but perform just as well at close range (<20m) engagements. This was always because of their ridiculously high ROF. By only reducing damage on them they remain just as good at close range as they are at long range - everything about them has been equally nerfed. By reducing ROF instead, it has far greater an impact on close range combat than long range combat. Implementing this idea would effectively buff the rifles at their intended ranges and nerf them in their unintended close range prowess. Edit - it would also make them all more like actual rifles and less like LMGs (for the fully automatic variants anyway) Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2801	Posted - 2014.04.09 08:52:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They're supposed to work in CQC, except for arguably the RR. Just that they're supposed to have varying degrees of success in CQC. AR > CR > SCR > RR As for the scrambler pistol, Ion Pistol is supposed to be the high ROF, medium damage and low range counterpart. Scrambler Pistol already had extremely fast ROF, and considering they're both semi auto pistols, that would leave no room for the Ion Pistol. No problem with them being able to 'work' in CQC but they are just as good extreme CQ as long range and that is not how they should be, any of them. Edit - and yeah, I'm not complaining about the scrambler pistol (I use the breach anyway!) but it's just an example of a sensible way to reduce DPS. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2805	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:14:00 - [3] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I don't really mind the changes done to the current weapons. They compliment the new sidearms. They're still no worse CQ than they are at optimal range - this is the problem. Or to put it another way - they're just as bad at range as they are CQ. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2805	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:40:00 - [4] - Quote Obviously the ROF nerfs would be different for each rifle, as the damage nerfs were. Shorter range rifles like the plasma rifle would get the least ROF nerf. I also don't rule out combining ROF and damage nerfs but I think the longer range rifles need the ROF nerfs more than damage nerfs. Range doesn't need changing on any of the rifles; that is fine. Nerfing ROF makes using rifles in CQ very much more difficult because it's easier to strafe out of low ROF at close range but long range you can't strafe fast enough unless the shooter is really bad. This would also allow the longer range weapons to retain their high damage numbers, so if you get the hits, it still counts big-time. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2805	Posted - 2014.04.09 11:41:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Long range = low DPS Short range = high DPS I disagree with this. It should be: Long Range = low ROF high DMG Short Range = high ROF low DMG DPS should be pretty equitable. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2807	Posted - 2014.04.09 13:12:00 - [6] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Django Quik wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Long range = low DPS Short range = high DPS I disagree with this. It should be: Long Range = low ROF high DMG Short Range = high ROF low DMG DPS should be pretty equitable. Thats the same thing, just a tiny bit more defined. Low ROF x High damage = Low DPS but High Alpha, making the DPS equal just makes long range weapons better, they DPS should be lower, not by a lot but still lower. When you make the DPS equal you create weapons like the Rail rifle versus the Assault rifle. Agreed - though the little refinement is quite important there. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2807	Posted - 2014.04.09 13:13:00 - [7] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: NO! Thanks for your contribution - have any reasoning to back up your argument or do you only speak in monosyllabic statements? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2813	Posted - 2014.04.09 16:29:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: No; this puts the aim-assist scrubs at even more of an advantage. Please explain how this would have any effect on aim-assist or vice-versa because I don't really follow. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2813	Posted - 2014.04.09 16:34:00 - [9] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: SCP needs to keep its high damage because that is the racial hallmark of Amarr tactical style weapons. HIgh alpha strikes (which, arguably could be for Minmatar artillery, but that's another thread). Additionally, the SCP has its high headshot modifier that works best with high damage, not ROF. Do I really need to make it absolutely clear that this thread is NOT about the scrambler pistol? Vespasian Andendare wrote: The rifle dps nerf was done just fine with lower damage (vs ROF), because an ROF nerf would have "buffed" spray and pray shooting, since you'd only need a few, albeit higher damage, shots to connect. With a damage nerf, better aiming is rewarded since you need more of your shots to connect to have the same result. Higher ROF rewards spray and pray more because missing a lot of shots does not significantly lower your damage. Spraying and praying with a high damage low ROF weapon would result in important damage being lost. Why do you think assault weapons are used far more than breach variants for example? Better aiming is rewarded more by high damage low ROF weapons. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2813	Posted - 2014.04.09 16:36:00 - [10] - Quote Joey-Number1 wrote: No their range is just fine, tbh what they need is higher damage on a really close range. This isn't about range - it's about ROF. They're already too powerful in close range, that's why a ROF nerf is needed to stop them being so useful at CQC without hurting their damage at their intended range. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

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