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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2795
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I applaud you sir, for putting together such a well thought out post. You're english isn't perfect but it's good enough to make sense and a hell of a lot better than many of the native speakers on this forum.
That said, I don't agree with everything you posted. I think basic plates just need their original speed penalties back (think it was 3%, 5%, 10% before) but not the repper penalty too. You're quite right that if you want that max HP from armour, you should get slowed the F down. That's the exact reason ferroscales were introduced in the first place. These changes would make them a viable choice again.
Currently, as a scout, I don't even look at them because the fittings costs are far too high. Do they really need to be so high when they already offer so much less protection than basic plates. And btw I'd call ferroscale plates the 'light plates' because no movement penalty. Reactives can be the mediums because they have a small penalty (I think 1%, 2%, 3% is fine for these but buff the HP just a little).
I look forward to reading your part 2 - repper tanking is something I've wanted to do for at least a year but currently even stacking 4 complex reppers is not a viable suit.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2817
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Armor plates were changed not long ago. Why keep messing with the same thing over and over. Instead buff shields a bit. This will also help increase TTK. As far as scouts, well they were buffed way too much on this last update. They should lose their side arm and/or lose a slot. No other suit has been buffed as much as the scout has at one time. Buffing shields and leaving plates would just perpetuate the problems with bricktanking > ALL.
Scouts need everything they got - do you remember how few there were and how weak they were before? You just want to gimp them with those suggestions. Fixing plates in this way would provide a much better alternative to sending scouts back to the garbage heap. Once assaults get their buffs in base stats and slots and the cloak-insta-shoot glitch is fixed, problems with scouts will all but disappear.
The brick tanking problem (particularly armor-wise) is a far wider problem than just scouts.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
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Posted - 2014.04.09 19:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:I disagree with penalties on reactive plates. If were gonna fix it we need to do it right. 8 slot high/low maximum. Rebalance all suits and layouts. add resistance mods low Change damage mods low. Break them down to four types instead of one blanket mod and put them back up to 10% to counter new built in suit resistances and resistance mods. Speed mods high. add e warfare. ferroscale should give a percentage and if we do rep tanking triage nanohives need to get the axe and armor repair tools need to be remodeled and go to gallente and amarr. a protod out gal suit should with a bunch of rep mods should achieve what a triage hive does. Rep tank means I need to be able to rep in battle and not have the amount be trivial. Shields need to rep passively and that problems effectively fixed there. Lignd heavy suits should have light and heavy armor mods and same for shields. You can't put battleship/cruiser plates on a frigate. You can't put medium/heavy plates on a light suit. Problem solved.
Someone on the first page talked about how theres supposed to be thousands of fitting options. That's impossible when there's no suit variety and no module variety which is why we new to eveify. We should be working on eve parity first. Pretty much everything you said is a bad idea. I'll give you resistance mods but we have too many low slot mods compared to high slots as is. Speed mods high I'll take too. Ewar already exists but we could definitely do with more.
The bad stuff: All suits are being rebalanced - half of it was done for 1.8; the rest is incoming shortly. Damage mods are ok now, maybe a wee buff - they were so strong before, they were more worthwhile than shields for the fittings cost. Ferroscale should definitely not be % based. They're intended for people like scouts - % based would make them strongest for heavies. If anything was to be % based it would be the 'heavy plates' to discourage light suit use. Reppers do need a buff but to make them that strong would invalidate shield recharge. If shield recharge was passive, there'd be nothing to set it apart from armor repping. This is Dust - we are all clones and we don't vary in size anywhere near as much as Eve ships. Whilst there are some good things in Eve that Dust should be trying to use itself, it must be remembered that this is NOT Eve and not everything translates across to an FPS well.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 19:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like almost everything I read here except that I would buff armor reppers more, maybe to 5 / 10 / 15. You'd still need to stack them quite high to reach shield repping rates but they'd be a lot less eclipsed by the usefulness of plates.
I'd also leave regulators in but give them a big buff. They could be useful things but with current stats you only get about a second off your delay using a complex mod. I'd make them something like 15% / 25% / 40% with much lower fittings costs.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
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Posted - 2014.04.09 20:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
@Mordecai - Didn't see the repper numbers the first time; I don't think it's enough, stacking 4 complex would only get you ~30hp/s. I'd go a little further; perhaps 3 / 6 / 9 before skills.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 20:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Django Quik wrote:@Mordecai - Didn't see the repper numbers the first time; I don't think it's enough, stacking 4 complex would only get you ~30hp/s. I'd go a little further; maybe not as far as I said in my post above but perhaps 3 / 6 / 9 before skills. Dudes WAKE THE HELL UP. 50hp/s (or 40) is GOD MODE. Have you ever see a Gallente Heavy on a Compact Nanohive ? He's barely invicible. Even me i was Amarr Logi Full Regen tanking, 20hp/s i was damn ******* powerful negating half of the shots.... Guys you're clearly going TOO far. The numbers of black is not totally ****, in fact only some penality here or there are really too low, but guys...regen tanking is about "time" distance or quick backstab, not a front. Regen values are great ;) (Black) But yours is well....a bit too big. I've tried rep tanking with 24hp/s and it was useless. Even with 40hp/s, that would still only be around 10% of the DPS a lot of weapons put out. Keep in mind that that's using all your low slots, so you don't get to put any extra armor on to make actual use of those reps. Yes, you'l rep to full in seconds but you'll not survive long under fire at all.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 20:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
@Auris Lionesse - dude, I think you need to go back to Eve. This is an FPS. You're trying to add things to a fast paced shooter that only work in an environment where locking on is always necessary and it's slow enough to make calculations on everything you do.
Just because they're set in the same universe and share lore, it doesn't mean the mechanics are suitable for an entirely different genre of game.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Certain people say oh that doesn't work but they can never seem to explain exactly why. And your right lol I wish I could go back to eve. It doesn't look like garbage or have balancing issues or feel completely unfinished. I'll gladly explain why - it's too complicated for FPS gameplay.
So, if this game is so bad, why are you playing it? Why don't you go back to Eve because that's clearly the game you want to be playing?
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 22:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Very nice. My singular concern is that if you buff reppers that much you'll have some people that run heavies (Amarr & Gallente I'm thinking) with half plates, half reppers and will have CRAZY armor regen on top of very large HP pools. Not sure if it woud be bad enough to be considered OP, but it would certainly be rough to fight them. Especially for a squishy lil Minmatar Commando like me ~20hp/s isn't that crazy and only accounts for about 5% of the DPS of many weapons. Rep tools and triage hives are still going to be waaaay more powerful and the only way to stay alive under any sustained fire.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2819
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 22:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
@auris - Dust can not be as complex as Eve because it's a different genre on a different platform with a different business model.
Free2Play has to be accessible because it relies on getting as many people to play as possible. This is already probably past the point of complexity that the general populace will be able to handle and making it worse will just be a massive "no entry" sign to anyone who is not already familiar with Eve and we already struggle for new players as it is.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2825
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Posted - 2014.04.10 07:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Django Quik wrote:@auris - Dust can not be as complex as Eve because it's a different genre on a different platform with a different business model.
Free2Play has to be accessible because it relies on getting as many people to play as possible. This is already probably past the point of complexity that the general populace will be able to handle and making it worse will just be a massive "no entry" sign to anyone who is not already familiar with Eve and we already struggle for new players as it is. Lmao because we already have so many people lining up to play. We need to switch to a subscription model too but that's at a later point when this game has some quality to it. Free to play isn't working. 80 million ps3s and we have 10k active users tops. Not catering to casual gamers is one if things that makes eve great and is why we have a good community. Non familiarity with eve is a big problem with npe. We need to make character creation more indepth and teach them how the game is supposed to work. the tutorial now is way too simple also This is why new players to the game suck and have no idea what they're doing. Blueberrys are idiots because things are too simple and dumbed down. No, we don't have many players and that would be even worse if you tried to put a subscription only game on a console. The only reason we get any new players at all is because it's free. But we do have a lot more than 10k DAU, probably upwards of 20k, though still an unacceptably low amount.
Yes, the tutorial is terrible and NPE is non-existent but that would not be helped at all by further complicating the game.
Once again, this is an FPS not a space sim game. FPSs rely on a more casual playerbase than space sims - not to say it should be entirely based around casual play but it NEEDS to be a consideration.
Some things will never work in Dust. Case in point active infantry armor repair - if you're into armor damage, given your opponent can actually aim and you're not a master bullet dodger, you're probably going to be dead in less than 2 seconds. During that time you're moving around trying to dodge and fire back - this requires all your fingers. At what point are you ever going to be able to press the right button combination to open the equipment wheel and activate your reppers?
Just an example of why an FPS is too fast for some Eve concepts.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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