|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2424
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Increasing the speed penalty on armor will only break it. The speed penalty as it is is fine... losing 0.5 m/s for using only two plates is insane. Not only that but your strafing and back tracking is gimped at 4.05 m/s thats a tad bit faster than a heavy suit. You cannot jump over obstacles if using more than 1 complex plate, and you are just so much easier to hit.
If you increase the speed penalty to armor. shield tanking should get a penalty to increase hitbox size. Or the speed penalty should only reduce your agility i.e strafing speeds, it wasn't long ago shields were OP as hell and all that was changed to armor was a small amount of extra HP and reduced speed penalties but increase the speed penalty will make shields superior once more. Not add balance.
Currently what makes armor unbalanced is that it doesnt scale properly, dual tanking is rampant, and there is no low slot/high slot module balance.
For the Federation!
[If armor is OP to you read this][2]
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2425
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Increasing the speed penalty on armor will only break it. The speed penalty as it is is fine... losing 0.5 m/s for using only two plates is insane. Not only that but your strafing and back tracking is gimped at 4.05 m/s thats a tad bit faster than a heavy suit. You cannot jump over obstacles if using more than 1 complex plate, and you are just so much easier to hit.
If you increase the speed penalty to armor. shield tanking should get a penalty to increase hitbox size. Or the speed penalty should only reduce your agility i.e strafing speeds, it wasn't long ago shields were OP as hell and all that was changed to armor was a small amount of extra HP and reduced speed penalties but increase the speed penalty will make shields superior once more. Not add balance.
Currently what makes armor unbalanced is that it doesnt scale properly, dual tanking is rampant, and there is no low slot/high slot module balance. You think this because for you "Heavy plate" now became the norm, in fact it shouldn't. These plates are supposed to be used by Amarrians and Heavy suits, for them Speed is absolutely not a factor. (Speedy Heavy don't count.). If you want to keep your speed use Ferroscale, with PG/CPU cost in line with Basic plate it's now a REAL choice. See more "global". In fact i remember these dark days when Calda was stomping us with these horrible shields. But in fact it was because of the hit detection...half of our shots was "erased" on shield.
I am going to have to re read your post to see this statement.
These plates are supposed to be used by Amarrians and Heavy suits, for them Speed is absolutely not a factor. (Speedy Heavy don't count.). If you want to keep your speed use Ferroscale, with PG/CPU cost in line with Basic plate it's now a REAL choice. See more "global".
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2425
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Another change: I would increase the HP on both reactives and ferroscale plates further, just a tad, an extra 10-20HP each.
Using basic plates + armor reppers will still be better than using complex reactives. Agree, and it will balance shield vs Armor (Like Bl4CKST4R said.) No it won't with the Hp regen malus on plates. But i'll take a look into it ;)
What does HP regen malus mean?
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2425
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Increasing the speed penalty on armor will only break it. The speed penalty as it is is fine... losing 0.5 m/s for using only two plates is insane. Not only that but your strafing and back tracking is gimped at 4.05 m/s thats a tad bit faster than a heavy suit. You cannot jump over obstacles if using more than 1 complex plate, and you are just so much easier to hit.
If you increase the speed penalty to armor. shield tanking should get a penalty to increase hitbox size. Or the speed penalty should only reduce your agility i.e strafing speeds, it wasn't long ago shields were OP as hell and all that was changed to armor was a small amount of extra HP and reduced speed penalties but increase the speed penalty will make shields superior once more. Not add balance.
Currently what makes armor unbalanced is that it doesnt scale properly, dual tanking is rampant, and there is no low slot/high slot module balance. This thread solves something that is very much an issue. Regen armor tanking is not viable, hence the Gallente have to step on the Amarr's toes, since we have to heavily armor up just like them.
OK I see it now, it was really hard to read to I missed some parts. I still think the shield penalty is terrible though, so dual tanking = death coffin, but I agree to what he is trying to do.
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2426
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I've only read half of this(got cut off before I could finish)
But it seems you really wanna punish plates for everyone, including the armour suit users who only fit 1-2 plates and use te rest of the slots of reps. If you wanna nerf plates then you have to give armour based suits higher base armour so we can compete with shield suits(I admit that I haven't read your whole post and you could have already touched on this) and 8 percent for a complex plate would kill it more. No one uses them besides heavies.
Also, switching the GalAssault and the AmarrAssaults slot layout is just plain nuts.
This is what I thought you might want to finish it and then read it like 2 more times before it makes sense.
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2433
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Increasing the speed penalty on armor will only break it. The speed penalty as it is is fine... losing 0.5 m/s for using only two plates is insane. Not only that but your strafing and back tracking is gimped at 4.05 m/s thats a tad bit faster than a heavy suit. You cannot jump over obstacles if using more than 1 complex plate, and you are just so much easier to hit.
If you increase the speed penalty to armor. shield tanking should get a penalty to increase hitbox size. Or the speed penalty should only reduce your agility i.e strafing speeds, it wasn't long ago shields were OP as hell and all that was changed to armor was a small amount of extra HP and reduced speed penalties but increase the speed penalty will make shields superior once more. Not add balance.
Currently what makes armor unbalanced is that it doesnt scale properly, dual tanking is rampant, and there is no low slot/high slot module balance. This thread solves something that is very much an issue. Regen armor tanking is not viable, hence the Gallente have to step on the Amarr's toes, since we have to heavily armor up just like them. OK I see it now, it was really hard to read to I missed some parts. I still think the shield penalty is terrible though, so dual tanking = death coffin, but I agree to what he is trying to do. Also I still cannot agree to bumping the reactive plate penalty. Reactives also received the biggest buff, they now have same Hp/s than actual Armor repper, and almost same ehp amount than a Ferroscale WITH the rep amount so....Speed penality was needed to bring balance between them, and 2% is well not a real factor ;) Why it is hard to read ? Too compact ? Bad words ? I'm trying to get better so..... Noooo This is your problem, you still think Dual tanking or "medium tanking" will use "Heavy plates", WRONG you must use Ferroscales or Reactives. Heavy Plates is for Brick Tanking or Hard Tanking.
I didn't see any increased HP I think the numbers don't pop out enough on the thread and I miss them.
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2448
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 19:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simplifed your post to just numbers, and slightly altered some values to improve scaling. Also removed the level 5 bonus you applied so these are values at level 0. Applied this concept to shield tanking, and wrote a post about it.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154463
The first part (armor) of this thread is a simplified version of the post above. Values slightly modified to remove the level 5 bonus applied in his numbers, and to scale armor a little better. I do not take or want credit for his idea.
Heavy - Medium - Light HP tanking system Heavy HP systems give a lot of HP but with a penalty Medium HP systems give medium HP with no penalty Light HP systems give a little bit of HP, a bonus, and a penalty
Armor plating:
Heavy Armour plates (Speed penalty plates)
Basic: 95/ -5% speed Advanced: 120/ -6% speed Complex: 145/ -7% speed
Nanofibre Armor plates (Ferroscale plates)
Basic: 44/ -0% Advanced: 65/ -0% Complex: 87/ -0%
Reactive plates (HP values not affected by armor plating skill, repair values are)
Basic: 42/ -2%/ 2 HP/s Advanced: 62/ -3%/ 3 HP/s Complex: 85/ -4%/ 5 HP/s
Armor repairers
Basic: 3 Advanced: 5 Complex: 7
Shield extension:
Heavy Shield extenders
Basic: 67/ 3% increased hitbox Advanced: 84/ 4% increased hitbox Complex: 101/ 5% increased hitbox
Medium Shield extenders
Basic: 34/ -0% Advanced: 50/ -0% Complex: 67/ -0%
Light Shield extenders (HP values unmodified by Shield extension skill, shield recharging skill lowers delay) Basic: 32/ +1% increased hitbox/ -10% shield recharge delay Advanced: 47/ +2% increased hitbox/ -15% shield recharge delay Complex: 63/ +3% increased hitbox/ -20% shield recharge delay
Shield regulators (REMOVED)
Shield rechargers (Vanilla)
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2450
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 20:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Simplifed your post to just numbers, and slightly altered some values to improve scaling. Also removed the level 5 bonus you applied so these are values at level 0. Applied this concept to shield tanking, and wrote a post about it. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154463The first part (armor) of this thread is a simplified version of the post above. Values slightly modified to remove the level 5 bonus applied in his numbers, and to scale armor a little better. I do not take or want credit for his idea. Heavy - Medium - Light HP tanking system Heavy HP systems give a lot of HP but with a penalty Medium HP systems give medium HP with no penalty Light HP systems give a little bit of HP, a bonus, and a penalty Armor plating:Heavy Armour plates (Speed penalty plates) Basic: 95/ -5% speed Advanced: 120/ -6% speed Complex: 145/ -7% speed Nanofibre Armor plates (Ferroscale plates) Basic: 44/ -0% Advanced: 65/ -0% Complex: 87/ -0% Reactive plates (HP values not affected by armor plating skill, repair values are) Basic: 42/ -2%/ 2 HP/s Advanced: 62/ -3%/ 3 HP/s Complex: 85/ -4%/ 5 HP/s Armor repairers Basic: 3 Advanced: 5 Complex: 7 Shield extension:Heavy Shield extenders Basic: 67/ 3% increased hitbox Advanced: 84/ 4% increased hitbox Complex: 101/ 5% increased hitbox Medium Shield extenders Basic: 34/ -0% Advanced: 50/ -0% Complex: 67/ -0% Light Shield extenders (HP values unmodified by Shield extension skill, shield recharging skill lowers delay) Basic: 32/ +1% increased hitbox/ -10% shield recharge delay Advanced: 47/ +2% increased hitbox/ -15% shield recharge delay Complex: 63/ +3% increased hitbox/ -20% shield recharge delay Shield regulators (REMOVED) Shield rechargers (Vanilla) Don't agree with lot of things inside.
Which is the shields? I would like to know what. Gotta keep in mind there are heavy suits which use shields.
For the Federation!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2451
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 20:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Simplifed your post to just numbers, and slightly altered some values to improve scaling. Also removed the level 5 bonus you applied so these are values at level 0. Applied this concept to shield tanking, and wrote a post about it. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=154463The first part (armor) of this thread is a simplified version of the post above. Values slightly modified to remove the level 5 bonus applied in his numbers, and to scale armor a little better. I do not take or want credit for his idea. Heavy - Medium - Light HP tanking system Heavy HP systems give a lot of HP but with a penalty Medium HP systems give medium HP with no penalty Light HP systems give a little bit of HP, a bonus, and a penalty Armor plating:Heavy Armour plates (Speed penalty plates) Basic: 95/ -5% speed Advanced: 120/ -6% speed Complex: 145/ -7% speed Nanofibre Armor plates (Ferroscale plates) Basic: 44/ -0% Advanced: 65/ -0% Complex: 87/ -0% Reactive plates (HP values not affected by armor plating skill, repair values are) Basic: 42/ -2%/ 2 HP/s Advanced: 62/ -3%/ 3 HP/s Complex: 85/ -4%/ 5 HP/s Armor repairers Basic: 3 Advanced: 5 Complex: 7 Shield extension:Heavy Shield extenders Basic: 67/ 3% increased hitbox Advanced: 84/ 4% increased hitbox Complex: 101/ 5% increased hitbox Medium Shield extenders Basic: 34/ -0% Advanced: 50/ -0% Complex: 67/ -0% Light Shield extenders (HP values unmodified by Shield extension skill, shield recharging skill lowers delay) Basic: 32/ +1% increased hitbox/ -10% shield recharge delay Advanced: 47/ +2% increased hitbox/ -15% shield recharge delay Complex: 63/ +3% increased hitbox/ -20% shield recharge delay Shield regulators (REMOVED) Shield rechargers (Vanilla) Don't agree with lot of things inside. "Increasing hitbox" stupid. Means shooting next to him will hit ? That's WTF ???? Hp vlaues of Ferroscales are too big. (a little bit) Hp values of Reactives is LOLWUT. SO MUCH HP SO MUCH REGEN SO NO PENALITY ? Regen tanking is supposed to be PASSIVE. And the most important point of it : WAY less effective than Brick tanking for a direct encounter. You're bringing a gamebreaking way of tanking. You seems to forget Skills on it. You ask to add 25% on THAT ? SERIOUSLY ???? It means a buff about 80% to ferroscales and reactives ....WTF? Please remove your post dude. Or check again numbers. Regen tanking is not meant to be god mode. 40hp/s needs to come with PENALITIES. No penality about regen on heavy plate ? LOL WUT ? Welcome your 18hp/s with 500 armor..... Dude seriously, armor rep and heavy plates must NOT be able to bem ixed without penalities.
Wait what 0.0 these are your numbers all I did was remove the level 5 bonus the HP is lower than the one you posted. And the HP mal us still applies I just didn't add it because I don't know how to explain it.
For example you said with level 5 a basic shield is 104.5, 104.5/1.1 = 95 the same with the Ferroscale plates the HP iS what you wrote without the 10% bonus level 5 gives.
For the Federation!
|
|
|
|