DUST Search - Medium frames need a BIG scan precision buff to combat scouts.

Azri Sarum wrote:

Piraten Hovnoret wrote:

No

Ppl are complaining about scouts and cloaks and dampening just don't get how to counter it.
News flash there is ways out there to counter it.

Gallante logi with 2-3 proto scanners works wounders.
Caldari scout ( those passive scans )
Don't Rambo ( solo play is UP)
Oh and FINALY get into a squad talk about who is doing what stick together ( team work is OP )

I run scout and when ppl do above I have a hard time

This thread nicely sums up most of the possible scanning scenarios available to us in 1.8.

Bottom line? With a maximum of two damps (and max skills) any scout can become unscannable while cloaked.

Since logis are the medium class's only hope at spotting scouts you would think that they can at least do that job... but not really.
It takes a logi with 4 complex precision enhancers to be able to see an un-damped cloaked scout. They are better off just using scanners instead, except that it takes a proto level scanner to see scouts, unless they decide to fit damps and then.... Cry

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad CCP let scouts be sneaky. I just think they went too far, and really tied our hands in terms of available counters. Medium suits should be able to trade slots for scanning ability (precision enhancers) and have a decent chance at it. Thats just not the case right now.

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SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 486	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:10:00 - [1] - Quote It's crazy that having a level 5 skill for precision enhancement and equipping three complex precision enhancers still isn't enough for my logi to see some scouts sneak up on me. According to protfits.com, that still only gets me down to 23.71db of scan precision detection, which does nothing for me against a cloaked scout. By the way, does anyone know exactly how the math works with those modules? I figured the skill (-10% at level 5) and the three mods (-20% x 3 = -60%) would improve upon my base scan precision of 45db by 70%, which I thought would get me down to 13.5db, but it doesn't work out that way according to the proto fits website.
Sourdough Muffins Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:13:00 - [2] - Quote Sounds like someone is a bit butthurt by the lack of 360 degree scanners. Sorry that Scouts actually fit their role now. If you are having trouble seeing them perhaps you should get your vision corrected? I'm sure a friendly Amarrian would be happy to perform Laz0r eye correction on you.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2152	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:15:00 - [3] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: It's crazy that having a level 5 skill for precision enhancement and equipping three complex precision enhancers still isn't enough for my logi to see some scouts sneak up on me. According to protfits.com, that still only gets me down to 23.71db of scan precision detection, which does nothing for me against a cloaked scout. By the way, does anyone know exactly how the math works with those modules? I figured the skill (-10% at level 5) and the three mods (-20% x 3 = -60%) would improve upon my base scan precision of 45db by 70%, which I thought would get me down to 13.5db, but it doesn't work out that way according to the proto fits website. Stacking penalty on scan mods. Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 486	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:19:00 - [4] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: SirManBoy wrote: It's crazy that having a level 5 skill for precision enhancement and equipping three complex precision enhancers still isn't enough for my logi to see some scouts sneak up on me. According to protfits.com, that still only gets me down to 23.71db of scan precision detection, which does nothing for me against a cloaked scout. By the way, does anyone know exactly how the math works with those modules? I figured the skill (-10% at level 5) and the three mods (-20% x 3 = -60%) would improve upon my base scan precision of 45db by 70%, which I thought would get me down to 13.5db, but it doesn't work out that way according to the proto fits website. Stacking penalty on scan mods. Really? Interesting. It seems to me that should definitely be removed or the efficacy of the mods should be greatly increased.
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 460	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:26:00 - [5] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: It's crazy that having a level 5 skill for precision enhancement and equipping three complex precision enhancers still isn't enough for my logi to see some scouts sneak up on me. According to protfits.com, that still only gets me down to 23.71db of scan precision detection, which does nothing for me against a cloaked scout. By the way, does anyone know exactly how the math works with those modules? I figured the skill (-10% at level 5) and the three mods (-20% x 3 = -60%) would improve upon my base scan precision of 45db by 70%, which I thought would get me down to 13.5db, but it doesn't work out that way according to the proto fits website. No Ppl are complaining about scouts and cloaks and dampening just don't get how to counter it. News flash there is ways out there to counter it. Gallante logi with 2-3 proto scanners works wounders. Caldari scout ( those passive scans ) Don't Rambo ( solo play is UP) Oh and FINALY get into a squad talk about how is doing what stick together ( team work is OP ) I run scout and when ppl do above I have a hard time Regards War never changes
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1904	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:30:00 - [6] - Quote Really? You're complaining that Logis can't see stealthy Scouts? And you didn't think that it maybe isn't the role it should be doing? Scout hunting role is for the Scouts, or more specifically the Cal and Gal Scouts. Also, you can actually detect non-dampened/cloaked Scouts with two PEs, or a single-dampened/cloaked Scout with three PEs, so stop whining. Expecting to see more than that in a suit not designed for it is hilarious. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5031	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:32:00 - [7] - Quote Friendly Scout to counter enemy Scouts by making them light up for you as well as themselves. Friendly scanner Logi to counter enemy Scouts by making them light up for you as well as themselves. Buff to Assault suits by adding an extra slot or two and some PG and CPU to let them build more varied fittings. Adustment (NOT nerf or buff) to Logis by giving them added HP in exchange for a PG/CPU reduction and a moderate HP increase. Less flexibility, more base durability. This in conjunction with an Assault buff makes Logi suits the ideal equipment users, and Assaults the ideal module users. Logis don't have too much trouble in general, and are in a relatively good place as support units. Assaults are underpowered, and need something more - just a little bit though. One extra slot - maybe 2 - on each Assault suit, and the PG/CPU to use them should be all it takes to put them back in line with the rest, imo.
Khan Hun Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 76	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:41:00 - [8] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Really? You're complaining that Logis can't see stealthy Scouts? And you didn't think that it maybe isn't the role it should be doing? Scout hunting role is for the Scouts, or more specifically the Cal and Gal Scouts. . I think the idea the counter to the massive surge of cloaked shotgun scouts is... more cloaked scouts, probably with shotguns, isn't really what people are after. Aside from perhaps a heavy+logi together, scouts are better at everything currently, even then 2 shotty scouts with cloaks and REs against a logi and heavy I'd guess it'd be pretty even.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2670	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:46:00 - [9] - Quote I don't think that's a reasonable request, OP, as much as my Assault QQs when a scout ganks him. EWAR is a scout thing, and I don't think it's right for mediums to encroach upon that. Equally I don't think it's reasonable for scouts to encroach upon mediums, and I think CCP needs to work out whether the cloak is for visual cloaking or dampening and make it go one way, not both. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 186	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:55:00 - [10] - Quote No. If you want to scan scouts, go and get a Cal-Scout, that's what they are designed for. Your logi is here to support your team and scan with your active, not your passive scanner. This is one oft the few things i would call balanced. Also there is a stacking penalty in each mod which gives you some dort oft percentage, like damage-mods, dampeners, etc. It's something like 100%, 87%, ~50%, ~20% and ~12% (don't habe the exact numbers in mind) 2nd place in EU Squad Cup Master Shinobi

SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 486	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:01:00 - [11] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Really? You're complaining that Logis can't see stealthy Scouts? And you didn't think that it maybe isn't the role it should be doing? Scout hunting role is for the Scouts, or more specifically the Cal and Gal Scouts. Also, you can actually detect non-dampened/cloaked Scouts with two PEs, or a single-dampened/cloaked Scout with three PEs, so stop whining. Expecting to see more than that in a suit not designed for it is hilarious. Are you sure that the numbers work out that way? Show me the math on that, please. Like I said, proto fits says I'm doing no better than 23.71db.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1906	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:04:00 - [12] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Are you sure that the numbers work out that way? Show me the math on that, please. Like I said, proto fits says I'm doing no better than 23.71db. Three PEs: 45 base dB * 0.9 (skill) * 0.8 * 0.826 * 0.886 (PEs with stacking penalty) = 23.71 dB (24 dB). Scout with one dampener/cloak: 35 base dB * 0.9 (skill) * 0.75 = 23.625 dB (24 dB). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Meee One Hello Kitty Commandos 749	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:13:00 - [13] - Quote Sourdough Muffins wrote: Sounds like someone is a bit butthurt by the lack of 360 degree scanners. Sorry that Scouts actually fit their role now. If you are having trouble seeing them perhaps you should get your vision corrected? I'm sure a friendly Amarrian would be happy to perform Laz0r eye correction on you. You're half right.... Active scanners got a nerf,but do you know what replaced them? It was taken from logis and given to scouts. 360 passive from a Cal Scout....the best part...it takes 0 equipment slots. At least the active took an equipment slot. John 15:13-Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2769	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:19:00 - [14] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: SirManBoy wrote: It's crazy that having a level 5 skill for precision enhancement and equipping three complex precision enhancers still isn't enough for my logi to see some scouts sneak up on me. According to protfits.com, that still only gets me down to 23.71db of scan precision detection, which does nothing for me against a cloaked scout. By the way, does anyone know exactly how the math works with those modules? I figured the skill (-10% at level 5) and the three mods (-20% x 3 = -60%) would improve upon my base scan precision of 45db by 70%, which I thought would get me down to 13.5db, but it doesn't work out that way according to the proto fits website. Stacking penalty on scan mods. Really? Interesting. It seems to me that should definitely be removed or the efficacy of the mods should be greatly increased. Percentage based mods are multiplied together, not added. Stacking penalties apply to any percentage based mod - this will not be removed in any circumstances. Precision mods could do with a buff to bring them in line with dampeners but no more than that. Logis can scan scouts - with active scanners! Passive scan is for scouts. Active scanners are for logis - they are NOT useless just because you can't 360 perma scan anymore. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 706	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:19:00 - [15] - Quote Yeah they broke active scanners and all the scrubs are happy about it because they're butthurt from them. They couldn't fit one dampener to counter a basic scanner so now we all suffer lol. Idiots Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2770	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:20:00 - [16] - Quote Meee One wrote: Sourdough Muffins wrote: Sounds like someone is a bit butthurt by the lack of 360 degree scanners. Sorry that Scouts actually fit their role now. If you are having trouble seeing them perhaps you should get your vision corrected? I'm sure a friendly Amarrian would be happy to perform Laz0r eye correction on you. You're half right.... Active scanners got a nerf,but do you know what replaced them? It was taken from logis and given to scouts. 360 passive from a Cal Scout....the best part...it takes 0 equipment slots. At least the active took an equipment slot. 360 perma passive scan for ~50m =/= 360 perma active scan for 150m Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Rich o United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 187	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:22:00 - [17] - Quote Meee One wrote: 360 passive from a Cal Scout....the best part...it takes 0 equipment slots. No equipment slot is right, but to replace the active scanner the cal-scout needs to use modules. With 4 PE-modules in their high slot they passively scan everything up from 15db, which equals 1 GalLogi with the (i think) focused duvolle. So, 1 equipment equals 4 modules. Not to speak of the Cal-Scout giving up their almost entire tank-ability just to scan at about 35 meter +í 360-¦ 2nd place in EU Squad Cup Master Shinobi
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1075	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:24:00 - [18] - Quote If only there was something that could pick up signatures of scouts, like a hand held piece of equipment that would detect things....
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 305	Posted - 2014.04.08 09:31:00 - [19] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: No Ppl are complaining about scouts and cloaks and dampening just don't get how to counter it. News flash there is ways out there to counter it. Gallante logi with 2-3 proto scanners works wounders. Caldari scout ( those passive scans ) Don't Rambo ( solo play is UP) Oh and FINALY get into a squad talk about who is doing what stick together ( team work is OP ) I run scout and when ppl do above I have a hard time This thread nicely sums up most of the possible scanning scenarios available to us in 1.8. Bottom line? With a maximum of two damps (and max skills) any scout can become unscannable while cloaked. Since logis are the medium class's only hope at spotting scouts you would think that they can at least do that job... but not really. It takes a logi with 4 complex precision enhancers to be able to see an un-damped cloaked scout. They are better off just using scanners instead, except that it takes a proto level scanner to see scouts, unless they decide to fit damps and then.... Don't get me wrong, I'm glad CCP let scouts be sneaky. I just think they went too far, and really tied our hands in terms of available counters. Medium suits should be able to trade slots for scanning ability (precision enhancers) and have a decent chance at it. Thats just not the case right now. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2772	Posted - 2014.04.08 10:05:00 - [20] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: It takes a logi with 4 complex precision enhancers to be able to see an un-damped cloaked scout. They are better off just using scanners instead, except that it takes a proto level scanner to see scouts, unless they decide to fit damps and then.... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=sharing#gid=0 A logi with 2 complex precision enhancers can see any non-gallente scout with one basic dampener. Normal proto active scanners can see any undampened non-gallente scout. The proto focused scanner can see any gallente scout with one basic dampener and any non-gallente scout with less than a complex and enhanced dampener as well as detecting cloaked scouts with less than one enhanced dampener. Gallente logis with scanners are even better! Scouts would be utterly useless if they were easy to scan, which is one of the reasons we struggled so much pre-1.8. Granted, I think there should be more options for the top end scanners and I disagree with the dampening effect of cloaks but keep in mind that that is only a temporary active dampening. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts

steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.08 10:16:00 - [21] - Quote Stop been a twitch scrub scouts have a number of counters, including the big one being Use your ******* eyes, The problem is with players on this one just because you suck does not mean somthing is overpowerd. You want spot scouts use the right suit, Because right now your bitching about the scouts whole freaking point which is stealth "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 462	Posted - 2014.04.08 11:13:00 - [22] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: No Ppl are complaining about scouts and cloaks and dampening just don't get how to counter it. News flash there is ways out there to counter it. Gallante logi with 2-3 proto scanners works wounders. Caldari scout ( those passive scans ) Don't Rambo ( solo play is UP) Oh and FINALY get into a squad talk about who is doing what stick together ( team work is OP ) I run scout and when ppl do above I have a hard time This thread nicely sums up most of the possible scanning scenarios available to us in 1.8. Bottom line? With a maximum of two damps (and max skills) any scout can become unscannable while cloaked. Since logis are the medium class's only hope at spotting scouts you would think that they can at least do that job... but not really. It takes a logi with 4 complex precision enhancers to be able to see an un-damped cloaked scout. They are better off just using scanners instead, except that it takes a proto level scanner to see scouts, unless they decide to fit damps and then.... Don't get me wrong, I'm glad CCP let scouts be sneaky. I just think they went too far, and really tied our hands in terms of available counters. Medium suits should be able to trade slots for scanning ability (precision enhancers) and have a decent chance at it. Thats just not the case right now. No The only scout that can dodge everything is the gallante However doing this he has to sacrifice a lot 3 complex damp or 2 complex and a cloak ( cloak need to be running ) Doing this you sacrifice tank and speed Problem is that ppl don't scan any longer. No more scanerinas out there. And no one is willing to sacrifice putting on 3 proto scans, with is the hard counter to scouts so it's better to QQ. War never changes


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