DUST Search - Change Railgun Range

Alpha 443-6732 wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world?

it isn't, since the railgun's focal point is its massive range. You should always reduce damage before range in this case.

Unless you want to be all warm and cuddly while stomping infantry in your dropship, with few effective counters.

Rails hitting these self proclaimed ace pilots is fine, as someone needs to be able to effectively pressure and deny dropships certain areas of the map. The problem we had before was railguns killing pilots before they could react, so CCP changed the range instead of the damage (which didn't fix anything for tanks, but it sure helped your carebear dropship agenda judge!). To be honest, I wouldn't care if tanks had 100% map coverage, as long as I could shoot them back and deny LoS.

Nothing is worse than putting an artificial type of balance (a bandaid) on the situation, instead of finding a better solution to the situation (ref. ambush vehicle cap). Nothing is wrong with a turret that has severe problems hitting infantry, doing well in an AA/AV role, either.

What I am trying to say is that the rail's range isn't what needs fixing, it's its insane dps over that range (i.e. nerf its ******* damage). What makes dropship pilots so special that they think they should easily be immune to most types of AV by using an afterburner and holding L1?

Arrogance.

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Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2306	Posted - 2014.04.08 00:12:00 - [1] - Quote 600 was too much, but 300 is a little too short. Could we maybe negotiate 325 or 350 meters? It's small, but I really think it'd be the perfect number. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1066	Posted - 2014.04.08 00:33:00 - [2] - Quote Sure, but rails must charge before everyshot
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1857	Posted - 2014.04.08 00:34:00 - [3] - Quote 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Heimdallr69 Heaven's Lost Property 2031	Posted - 2014.04.08 00:46:00 - [4] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1857	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:09:00 - [5] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges What do you mean by "a pain"? How easy should it be? how many attempts should end in a result? That fact it is not a guaranteed kill is a problem or not? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 247	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:13:00 - [6] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Sure, but rails must charge before everyshot Sure, but rails must do 5x more damage before everyshot
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 888	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:23:00 - [7] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? But the flight ceiling is around 800 meters. Support Orbital Spawns
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1333	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:24:00 - [8] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges My first match after the rail nerf I killed three ADSs in two shots through their hardeners, all from outside of the redline but still well enough away from threats. If you need more than that I don't know what to tell you. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1333	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:26:00 - [9] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? But the flight ceiling is around 800 meters. A ship is safe in harbor but that's not what ships are made for. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Heimdallr69 Heaven's Lost Property 2032	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:29:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges What do you mean by "a pain"? How easy should it be? how many attempts should end in a result? That fact it is not a guaranteed kill is a problem or not? I'm talking range.. Not how many hits it takes. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Scheneighnay McBob Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4707	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:42:00 - [11] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges A range increase isn't going to change much on that part. Best way to shoot one down is to drive part of the way up a hill, so the front of your HAV is pointing up, and you can fire at a much steeper angle. I'm from the weird side of the internet
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.04.08 01:49:00 - [12] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? it isn't, since the railgun's focal point is its massive range. You should always reduce damage before range in this case. Unless you want to be all warm and cuddly while stomping infantry in your dropship, with few effective counters. Rails hitting these self proclaimed ace pilots is fine, as someone needs to be able to effectively pressure and deny dropships certain areas of the map. The problem we had before was railguns killing pilots before they could react, so CCP changed the range instead of the damage (which didn't fix anything for tanks, but it sure helped your carebear dropship agenda judge!). To be honest, I wouldn't care if tanks had 100% map coverage, as long as I could shoot them back and deny LoS. Nothing is worse than putting an artificial type of balance (a bandaid) on the situation, instead of finding a better solution to the situation (ref. ambush vehicle cap). Nothing is wrong with a turret that has severe problems hitting infantry, doing well in an AA/AV role, either. What I am trying to say is that the rail's range isn't what needs fixing, it's its insane dps over that range (i.e. nerf its ******* damage). What makes dropship pilots so special that they think they should easily be immune to most types of AV by using an afterburner and holding L1? Arrogance.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 174	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:19:00 - [13] - Quote Incoming dropship nerf.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 452	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:24:00 - [14] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? But the flight ceiling is around 800 meters. What can a dropship do at 800 meters? -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 452	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:26:00 - [15] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? it isn't, since the railgun's focal point is its massive range. You should always reduce damage before range in this case. Unless you want to be all warm and cuddly while stomping infantry in your dropship, with few effective counters. Rails hitting these self proclaimed ace pilots is fine, as someone needs to be able to effectively pressure and deny dropships certain areas of the map. The problem we had before was railguns killing pilots before they could react, so CCP changed the range instead of the damage (which didn't fix anything for tanks, but it sure helped your carebear dropship agenda judge!). To be honest, I wouldn't care if tanks had 100% map coverage, as long as I could shoot them back and deny LoS. Nothing is worse than putting an artificial type of balance (a bandaid) on the situation, instead of finding a better solution to the situation (ref. ambush vehicle cap). Nothing is wrong with a turret that has severe problems hitting infantry, doing well in an AA/AV role, either. What I am trying to say is that the rail's range isn't what needs fixing, it's its insane dps over that range (i.e. nerf its ******* damage). What makes dropship pilots so special that they think they should easily be immune to most types of AV by using an afterburner and holding L1? Arrogance. Try a forge gun. Specifically, a breach forge gun. Even if you can't kill him, making him run every time he comes nearer effectively removes him (or her, I guess) from the battle. Also gives you a ton of warpoints.... -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
Rusty Shallows 1448	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:27:00 - [16] - Quote Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2420	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:28:00 - [17] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: 600 was too much, but 300 is a little too short. Could we maybe negotiate 325 or 350 meters? It's small, but I really think it'd be the perfect number. I think 500 is good but a nerd to DPS is needed probably like 30%. For the Federation!
Doctor Day THE SUPERHEROS 38	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:31:00 - [18] - Quote Woo lets put railguns back to 600 meters so us DS pilots can be broke forever paying 500Milion isk for our ship Obvious troll is Obvious
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6458	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:34:00 - [19] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Except 80GJ Railgun users can't utilize cover to the point that a Forge Gun user can. Also, an Assault Dropship can easily fly above the vehicle, and attack you without being able fight back, whilst a Forge Gun user has no limits in terms of elevation. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1068	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:41:00 - [20] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? it isn't, since the railgun's focal point is its massive range. You should always reduce damage before range in this case. Unless you want to be all warm and cuddly while stomping infantry in your dropship, with few effective counters. Rails hitting these self proclaimed ace pilots is fine, as someone needs to be able to effectively pressure and deny dropships certain areas of the map. The problem we had before was railguns killing pilots before they could react, so CCP changed the range instead of the damage (which didn't fix anything for tanks, but it sure helped your carebear dropship agenda judge!). To be honest, I wouldn't care if tanks had 100% map coverage, as long as I could shoot them back and deny LoS. Nothing is worse than putting an artificial type of balance (a bandaid) on the situation, instead of finding a better solution to the situation (ref. ambush vehicle cap). Nothing is wrong with a turret that has severe problems hitting infantry, doing well in an AA/AV role, either. What I am trying to say is that the rail's range isn't what needs fixing, it's its insane dps over that range (i.e. nerf its ******* damage). What makes dropship pilots so special that they think they should easily be immune to most types of AV by using an afterburner and holding L1? Arrogance. dropships being carebare, that's a good one. The reason they reduced the range is so redline tankers couldn't deny the entire map to any vehicle from the redlin, not damage. The missile tank should be the anti air tank and get its elevation buffed to fight dropships. The rail tank is a tank killer, Its annoying that people think the rail tank should be AA. Blaster anti infantry Rail anti tank Missile anti air The rails range did need fixing, killing anything from the redline in under a second was bull and you know it. to make it balanced it should have to charge before every shot so its not just see a vehicle and hold down r1. The reason its DPs is so high is because it fires .26 seconds after The first shot. There is no reaction time for tanks or dropships. It should require more than hold r1 to use a rail.

Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1354	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:48:00 - [21] - Quote Nitrobeacon wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Sure, but rails must charge before everyshot Sure, but rails must do 5x more damage before everyshot Thats ok because rails do 0 damage before a shot 0 x 5 = 0
Rusty Shallows 1449	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:15:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Except 80GJ Railgun users can't utilize cover to the point that a Forge Gun user can. Also, an Assault Dropship can easily fly above the vehicle, and attack you without being able fight back, whilst a Forge Gun user has no limits in terms of elevation. It's an apples to oranges comparison. You're distorting the issue. If you want to throw in incidentals the swarm launcher can't shoot at infantry, is vulnerable to every weapon that can shoot at him, has vastly less ammo, is significantly slower, and dies far faster to a Dropship than a gunship can kill a HAV. There are numerous ups and downs for both. So why do you think the Large Rail should get special treatment? Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1338	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:42:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Except 80GJ Railgun users can't utilize cover to the point that a Forge Gun user can. Also, an Assault Dropship can easily fly above the vehicle, and attack you without being able fight back, whilst a Forge Gun user has no limits in terms of elevation. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Teamwork kills dropships. Get another rail tank or a forge/swarmer to cover you and you're fine. Quit thinking you can just drive around the bloody map like you own the place, thinking you should be immune to every little thing that annoys you. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1539	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:05:00 - [24] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: 600 was too much, but 300 is a little too short. Could we maybe negotiate 325 or 350 meters? It's small, but I really think it'd be the perfect number. EDIT: So, I was thinking, what if the railgun range was brought up to like 450, but damage nerfed by 400 points. Then we have the MN Howizter turret hit at 275m, but do 1900 DMG at proto level. Howitzer: Range = 275m. DMG = 1800 (proto). Interval = 0.50 seconds. DPS = 3600 Railgun: Range = 450. DMG = 900 (proto). Interval = 0.33 seconds. DPS = 2700 Are you CRAZY?! Missiles have a burst DPS of about 3600, you want to give a RANGED weapon sustainable DPS equal to the burst DPS of a CQC turret? Sorry Charlotte, I thought you knew better than this. Railguns just need a range profile similar to the laser rifle. 100% within 200 to 350 meters, then drops off rapidly to 30% about 100-150 meters outside optimal. They get their range back at the cost of damage falloff, and you can no longer charge head first into CQC and win with a ranged weapon. And best of all, their ranged abilities don't get nerfed. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
LittleCuteBunny 404	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:08:00 - [25] - Quote I love dropships, they are castles in the sky. When I fly them I feel like a celestial being :) Dauth Jenkins wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? But the flight ceiling is around 800 meters. What can a dropship do at 800 meters? Run away from danger and regenerate. I remember reading somewhere that the map ceiling was 1000m Doctor Day wrote: Woo lets put railguns back to 600 meters so us DS pilots can be broke forever paying 500Milion isk for our ship 500 million, OMG you must be very rich since loosing 1 will be 1 billion Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Swarms currently have a 55% efficiency so it would all change if the same was linear to every vehicle. Forge guns have a 360 degrees, low hitbox if compared in size to a vehicle and highly mobile if vehicles are used to reallocate. Retired.
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Top Men. 1156	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:28:00 - [26] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Atiim wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Except 80GJ Railgun users can't utilize cover to the point that a Forge Gun user can. Also, an Assault Dropship can easily fly above the vehicle, and attack you without being able fight back, whilst a Forge Gun user has no limits in terms of elevation. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Teamwork kills dropships. Get another rail tank or a forge/swarmer to cover you and you're fine. Quit thinking you can just drive around the bloody map like you own the place, thinking you should be immune to every little thing that annoys you. Remember how it was bullshit for tankers to say it should require teamwork to kill them? I invoke that now. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1810	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:45:00 - [27] - Quote The range was never the problem. IT'S THE DAMN RoF! Nerf that back to where it was (which was perfectly effective without being OP) and we're good. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 726	Posted - 2014.04.08 05:48:00 - [28] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: 600 was too much, but 300 is a little too short. Could we maybe negotiate 325 or 350 meters? It's small, but I really think it'd be the perfect number. EDIT: So, I was thinking, what if the railgun range was brought up to like 450, but damage nerfed by 400 points. Then we have the MN Howizter turret hit at 275m, but do 1900 DMG at proto level. Howitzer: Range = 275m. DMG = 1800 (proto). Interval = 0.50 seconds. DPS = 3600 Railgun: Range = 450. DMG = 900 (proto). Interval = 0.33 seconds. DPS = 2700 I would be good with railguns having a fall-off beyond 300m, maybe 450m fall-off or something so that you can still plink people from far away. Fixing swarms
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 292	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:39:00 - [29] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Have you tried shooting a dropship recently? They're a pain too destroy now, I leave them too the forges Good dropships should be hard to hit. They should add in a longer range variant of the Railgun but reduce its DPS and its spike dmg.
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 889	Posted - 2014.04.09 02:27:00 - [30] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? But the flight ceiling is around 800 meters. What can a dropship do at 800 meters? Well of course they're not going to sit up at 800 meters (though a good pilot could drop off mercs from up there) but with the ceiling being at 800 meters it gives them roughly 500 vertical meters (you can do the math if you want to know the exact cubic meters which obviously varies on each map) of relatively safe space to rep armor, regen shields, drop off mercs, and wait for their modules to cool off before swooping back in. So with all this space they're able to take advantage of the "waves of opportunity" CCP wants for vehicles far more effectively than the other vehicle types. The only danger is another dropship but to be honest there aren't many that are interested in dogfighting. Support Orbital Spawns

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6477	Posted - 2014.04.09 02:33:00 - [31] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Teamwork kills dropships. Get another rail tank or a forge/swarmer to cover you and you're fine. Does teamwork pilot a Dropship? I may not use an ADS, but I've been practicing with my Gorgon, and I've yet to find anything that requires any form of teamwork. Except killing units of course, but an ADS can do that solo Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Quit thinking you can just drive around the bloody map like you own the place, thinking you should be immune to every little thing that annoys you. You mean do what an Assault Dropship user already does to an extent, and would do so even further if that change was implemented? I'd also like to echo this Alena's thoughts on this one. Alena Ventrallis wrote: Remember how it was bullshit for tankers to say it should require teamwork to kill them? I invoke that now. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
1pawn dust Algintal Core Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2014.04.09 03:16:00 - [32] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 300 is 50% map coverage in almost all maps. 62% in others. Is that not long enough? Half the world? Go home your drunk
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 673	Posted - 2014.04.09 04:16:00 - [33] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Atiim wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: Swarm Launchers were hit harder. Just tell yourself it is for the Dropships and everything will be alright. Besides the current range is fine for Forge Guns so it is good enough for Large Rails. Except 80GJ Railgun users can't utilize cover to the point that a Forge Gun user can. Also, an Assault Dropship can easily fly above the vehicle, and attack you without being able fight back, whilst a Forge Gun user has no limits in terms of elevation. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Teamwork kills dropships. Get another rail tank or a forge/swarmer to cover you and you're fine. Quit thinking you can just drive around the bloody map like you own the place, thinking you should be immune to every little thing that annoys you. .....that's exactly what HAV's can do now. They can drive around the ***** map being immune to the majority of the weapons in game. Teamwork kills everything possible in this fuckin game. The issue is : Why should one playstyle require teamwork when the other doesn't? That's the entire problem. One option can kill everything in the damn game, while the direct counter is only that, a direct counter. And this direct counter isn't even efficient at countering the entire purpose of their play style. Currently there are two roles in the game. Vehicle suppression and infantry suppression. Acting like hacking objectives isn't the role of a tanker is obscenely ridiculous. An infantry that decides to hack a point has just as much possiblity to fail as someone who leaves their HAV to hack the same objective. It's your own choice whether or not to decide which is more important, ISK through kills, or capping objectives for the win. Now you may claim "but that infantry guy has skillpoints put into being adept at killing infantry, so he is better able to hack objectives.".... Wrong. You decided to skill into vehicles who's sole purpose is to kill other infantry and vehicles. You already know there is no other role in the game beyond that. You know this. It's impossible to not know this, because the only thing you can do in this game is kill others, and hack objectives. You are choosing to play as a killer. Just like infantry choose to skill into either killing infantry, or killing vehicles (and we all know how ***** balanced AV currently is, which again, leads to the disparity of roles). You can choose to be adept at killing infantry, just as infantry can choose to become adept at running an HAV. An HAV is able to kill everything the game. That is a fact. They are literally able to kill every possible thing in the game, with every single type of turret with relative efficiency compared to the other weapons in the game (i must admit that the missile turrets are in a decent place with infantry concerns. A 0.3 - 0.5 reduction in splash range would, IMO, completely balance missile turrets with the rest of the game however), also with more ease then any other weapon in the game. Stating otherwise is a lie. You know exactly how easy it is to dominate with a vehicle. Because you dominate, and complain that dying lost you 500k isk. For shame that you actually die in a game designed around everyone dying for eternity. Infantry simply don't have this luxury. In order to excel in one area, they gimp themselves in another. HAV's aren't given this choice. Anything they choose can kill infantry as easily as vehicles. They aren't only the jack of all trades, they are jack that has mastered all trades, and only for 200k-300k more then their direct counterpart. This is a blatant imbalance, period.


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